Land surrounded by Paper Mill lands

CJ · #1 02/15/08, 09:33 AM

Okay... new question in our ongoing saga of trying to find land in the River Valley of Arkansas...

20 acres came up for sale, surrounded on 3 sides by Paper Mill lands. Pros? Cons? I know nothing about them. Surely they're better than being surrounds by chicken house.

mistletoad · #2 02/15/08, 09:44 AM

We have pulp mill lands across from us and it is nice until they start harvesting. Luckily for us the tract immediately across from us is mostly swamp (and it has some sort of conservation easement on it that the other tracts do not have), but the next one over is being harvested now and you can hear the hum of the machines all day long. But for the 4 years we lived here before that started up there was no noise at all.

Jolly · #3 02/15/08, 10:06 AM

Paper mill land...

1. It will eventually be clearcut.

2. The hunting rights are leased out.

3. The paper mill industry is not in good shape. As mills shut down, the parent companies sell the land. Most of the time, it's to timber companies. If it's close enough to town, however, it could go to developers.

brownegg · #4 02/15/08, 10:11 AM

Yep, here along the major highways they put up billboards advertising their wooded properties for sale. Some is open to the public for hunting.

RichieC · #5 02/15/08, 10:18 AM

Paper companies in New Hampshire are notably good neighbors.

I will second what Jolly says about the health of the US paper industry, and the risk that may present.

texican · #6 02/15/08, 10:50 AM

If the timber is large, it'll probably be cut soon, if it's 'paper company' land, and then you'd have relative peace from the loggers for at least 13 or so years. If it's fresh planted, a year or two, you have peace till they cut it again.

I'd take land bordered by a timber company before I would land surrounded by neighbors... even if they were good neighbors.

The only con imho, would be hunting season, not sure how long it lasts in AR... If it's a pine plantation, there's not much hunting anyways... if it's mixed forest, hunters would be more apt to hunt it.

CJ · #7 02/15/08, 11:06 AM

Okay you all said what we pretty much were already aware of, doesn't sound like they'd make too bad of neighbors then. I haven't seen the property yet, so I don't know what stage of growth the pines are in yet.

If they were to sell it, we'd be all over it if within our reach, but around here I understand timber forests rarely go up for sale, it's too profitable in the area.

This wouldn't be a "forever" piece for us, 20 acres just isn't enough land, and there is still the insurmountable problem of no mineral rights conveying with any land around here. If we bought something like this, we'd keep our acreage in Missouri and probably just put up a shop and small cabin. Hubby's job is going to keep us here for quite a few more years, but we can't stay in the campground forever, and a house in town just doesn't appeal to us.

fishhead · #8 02/15/08, 11:21 AM

My suggestion is to look for your "forever" land now. It's NOT going to get any cheaper or be more available than it is right now. In fact I think just the opposite is a safe bet.

CJ · #9 02/15/08, 11:25 AM

It's already bought and paid for, back home in Missouri. We will retire on it. And I totally agree!

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishhead

My suggestion is to look for your "forever" land now. It's NOT going to get any cheaper or be more available than it is right now. In fact I think just the opposite is a safe bet.

Randy Rooster · #10 02/15/08, 11:31 AM

I had paper company land on 2 sides of me when I bought my place 10 years ago. Since then they sold to developers and now theres plans in the works for 1400 patio homes and 300 condos. Dont assume that it will be paper company land for long.

Youd be better off surronded by a national forest. And if they lease hunting rights and they surrond you on 3 sides, expect hunting dogs, hunters, rifle shots, and 4 wheelers to regularly cross your place during the season.

agmantoo · #11 02/15/08, 11:47 AM

From the other side of the fence. As Agmantoo I am also in the timber growing business. I have properties that adjoin other timber producers along with a variety of neighbors. As a timber grower I will not be dumping trash on an individuals property nor will I be cutting your trees and I will not be riding horses and off road motorcycles and four wheelers across others property. I will attempt to be a good neighbor and respect your rights and create as little inconvenience as possible. My desire is to having a good relationship to where if there is a fire you would call to alert the fire department. If someone was had a meth lab on the property I would hope that they would be reported. In return, I will try to maintain the status quo, Should I observe something amiss on you place I would attempt to notify you or the authorities. I will try to keep the property lines marked for both of our benefits. Crews servicing the tracts will be asked to not disturb you at off hours and to keep the road clean where they access the trees. We will be cutting/serving for only short periods. Other than these times you should not even know we exist. With a typical planting we thin once at 14 years of age, do a another thinning at 18 to 20 years of age and do a final harvest at 28 to 30 years of age and replant. That is IMO not much of a disturbance. In between these times our trees do a lot to clean the atmosphere and to provide habitat to a lot of wildlife. Take a fresh deep breath and stop to realize where it came from and what it cost you! PS....toilet paper is obtained from our product also.

ldc · #12 02/15/08, 12:10 PM

CJ, If the timber people around you harvest messily/clear cut slopes, you can be flooded on land that has never flooded before. This has happened a lot in NY State. You can also lose your clear streams, etc from the run-off. ldc

Beeman · #13 02/15/08, 01:17 PM

How close are the paper mills? Can you smell them from there and does the discharge effect you?

CJ · #14 02/15/08, 05:10 PM

Smell? Oh no... the adjoining land is just the forest. It's out in the boonies... waaaaay out in the boonies.

I went and walked this 20 acres today. Unfortunately, they timbered it. My best guess, looking at the Tree production land, it's nearly ready to be cropped.

That wouldn't be so bad, the paper mills places here seem to do a fairly nice job cleaning up and replanting, they appear to be very good stewards of the land from what I've seen... far more so than the locals owning the private land.

I was appalled to find 2 old cards, one old boat, several small trash piles of old bikes, toilets, tv's... and 2 HUGE dump piles... had to be years worth of trash.

I'm not sure why I'm appalled anymore... I've never been anywhere in my life where I've seen such a total disregard for the land as here. It's really heartbreaking. I thought Missouri was rough in areas, but it's positively pristine in comparison.

NWoods_Hippie · #15 02/15/08, 05:34 PM

Up here they are selling off paper company land left and right, the guy who owns the resort I caretake for just bought 700 acres of paper company land! He is now having it surveyed and divided up into acre lots to sell to tourists wanting to build homes, before long it will be nothing but houses!

Margie

Ravenlost · #16 02/15/08, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJ

I was appalled to find 2 old cards, one old boat, several small trash piles of old bikes, toilets, tv's... and 2 HUGE dump piles... had to be years worth of trash.

I'm not sure why I'm appalled anymore... I've never been anywhere in my life where I've seen such a total disregard for the land as here. It's really heartbreaking. I thought Missouri was rough in areas, but it's positively pristine in comparison.

You haven't been to Mississippi lately, have you?

Our north property line runs down the middle of a large creek. People love to dump their garbage off the bridge into the creek...TVs, a fridge, deers with just the head cut off, etc. I told hubby I wanted to put up signs that read "YOU ARE DUMPING YOUR GARBAGE INTO YOUR DRINKING WATER IDIOT!" but he said it wouldn't change anything.

Beeman · #17 02/15/08, 07:45 PM

I didn't know how far from the mills the land was. Paper mills have a smell, they call it the smell of money, most just say it stinks. The odor can and does travel quite some distance depending on how the wind blows. I lived a pretty good distance from a paper mill and a few times a month it smelled terribly outside and lingered if it got in the house. Mills also are very rough on the river they dump into and also send other bad stuff in the air beside the stink.

Trash is amazing especially in areas of the south, I don't know why it's done or acceptable but it sure seems to be.

MN Gardener · #18 02/15/08, 07:58 PM

Ditto on what Beeman says, we are about 15 miles from our paper mill and if the wind is right we also can smell the "smell of money". We do live next to a 40 acre parcel that the paper mill owns for timber land, but since we are right next to it we get the first chance to lease it for hunting. I would check into that too, if you decide to do it. Maybe the current owners are willing to foot the bill to remove the junk? Who knows or maybe you can get an estimate on its removal and negotiate the sales price, if you are still interested.

CJ · #19 02/15/08, 08:24 PM

The tree company land is for lease, but we really wouldn't have any need of leasing it.

I told the realtor the only way we'd be interested in the land was if the sellers hauled off all the trash. I seriously doubt they will... but 20 acres isn't very wide, and they live next door... I don't think I want future trash piles next to me either.

There's another piece we've looked at several times, not overly usable... mostly bluff (48 acres) but has enough flat for our our needs. We may go take another look at it. The view is just fabulous, and it's right by (but not on) a huge creek (Big Piney).

And there's no trash!

blue gecko · #20 02/15/08, 10:06 PM

CJ, We're overdue for a visit anyway. Lets visit about this. I'm pretty darn familiar with the area and perhaps I can shed some insight. I'll be home this weekend making sausage. It's a big project so my weekend is pretty much dedicated to that. It's going to be a miserable weekend anyway (rainy and cold) so the coffee pot will be on. Call me!