Land Use Planning

[pickapeppa]

Not personal, local government, as in county. I'm wondering how to persuade them to alter some of their ordinances, as in small livestock ownership.

I've searched the net, read the articles in the papers of cities or towns that have been persuaded to change their codes on animals, but can't find any detailed arguments or the process involved.

Where do you start? A petition signing? Who would you contact first?

We live on 3/4 an acre, and I just found out today our local codes don't even allow for a greenhouse or hoophouse structure. Shocking.

I'm particularly interested in finding any information or ideas regarding environmental impact, adequate space for what types of livestock, social and economic impact, and how it enhances the community and surrounding areas.

Our township plan's goal is to 'continue the rural nature' of the area allowing agricultural lifestyle while at the same time providing a gradual opening of space between the urbanized areas and the agricultural areas.

What would you consider a reasonable number and type of animal to keep on a 1/4 acre city lot, a 1/3 acre, a 1/2 acre, 3/4 acre, over 1 acre?

To me, a couple of nubian goats is better than the current four dog limit in residential areas. I see no reason why someone with some green space can't keep a couple of laying hens without having to worry about being fined. As long as they are adequately cared for, it seems like it would be better for the environment to have them around than it would be not to.

Suggestions?

[hunter63]

Pretty restricted, where are you located?

[pickapeppa]

Originally Posted by hunter63

Pretty restricted, where are you located?

Outlying areas west of the far west suburbs of Chicago. Interesting huh? That Chicago can allow unlimited numbers of poultry to be raised within city limits and out here in the residential country, not even one is allowed.

Although Chicago is very left leaning, and out here it's very right leaning. Which to me means tighter regulations and controls on peoples' private lives. At least that's how it looks. Don't want to turn this into a political discussion, however.

I'm finding there is a large range in how much is allowed here vs. there. Some places will allow large livestock animals on two acres, some only on five or more. Some consider 5 chickens to equal one animal unit, some say it's 30 or more.

None of this seems to be based on anything more than personal opinion of the people who define the ordinances.

Some places are basing the arguments on 'pets' vs. 'livestock', in fact it looks like most of the arguments are based about said definitions.

I guess that's why I'm looking for more facts. Facts persuade more than personal opinion, right? Are there any studies floating around regarding environmental impacts ie., noise, odors, runoff, etc., in conjunction with residential or urban livestock keeping practices?

One of the municipalities considered whether the keeping of the animal was supplemental to the keeping of the property. It sounded like if you could make an argument in support of how you used the animal to manage your property (as in insect control, enhanced soil fertility, weed control), it was allowed.

[Wolf mom]

First I commend you on trying to effect change!

Somewhere you'll find county board meetings posted. Local paper? They may be under another name in your area. Go to the meetings see how they're run. Get to know the members, their voting habits, pet peeves etc. Are they a weak board following one person? Strong board with many individula ideas?

At the same time, go to the county zoning office & enlist the aid of people there. They're a wealth of information. Go to gain historical information. There may be reasons why the ordinances are the way they are & to know the history will make you better informed when you want to effect change.

Whatever you do, don't get into emotional discussions/arguments. I've seen that the powers that be listen better if you can give a factual rather than emotional discussion..

I've found a little research will get you further than jumping in with a bang.

Also it never hurts to have alternatives in hand. Want chickens? Roosters crowing always comes up. Maybe limit roosters to one. You get the idea. Many times I've found you have to think for others. And they must be able to save face.

I've also found that if you can get a few like minded people together you can refer to them as "the group"(without saying how many) & it carries more influence than you as one person.

Again best to you!

[texican]

Did you like the book Don Quixote?

I haven't got any experience, trying to change restrictive land use planning codes... Most codes were implemented, to do away with things that were allowed, pre-code. Codes have their place. You probably don't have to worry about large scale pig farming, junk dealers, people wanting to incinerate their household garbage... and unfortunately, it looks like you want to do something that's not allowed.

I would never live in an area that had such laws, codes, what have you. In such areas, you always run the risk of trash moving in next door, or an industrial plant. I'll take my chances....

sorry that I had nothing constructive to add...

[Chas in Me]

Wolf Mom has given you good advice. I worked in land use planning and loved to discuss ideas and thoughts with people who wanted changes made. The ones who had the most success made thoughtful, reasoned, and well planned presentations. Learn the system and work within it.
Good luck.

[pickapeppa]

Originally Posted by texican

Did you like the book Don Quixote?

I haven't got any experience, trying to change restrictive land use planning codes... Most codes were implemented, to do away with things that were allowed, pre-code. Codes have their place. You probably don't have to worry about large scale pig farming, junk dealers, people wanting to incinerate their household garbage... and unfortunately, it looks like you want to do something that's not allowed.

I would never live in an area that had such laws, codes, what have you. In such areas, you always run the risk of trash moving in next door, or an industrial plant. I'll take my chances....

sorry that I had nothing constructive to add...

Never read it, sadly. The thing is, people break codes all the time. One next door fixes vehicles in his garage to earn his living. Another one down the street burns plastic garbage about once a week. Another down the other way rides his obnoxiously loud motorcycle through the neighborhood that rattles window and hurts your ears if your 200 feet away from the street.

Unfortunately, to live in an area where those codes don't exist is unaffordable, and we're kind of tied to a life-long job with benefits here.

If you can't move, move city hall. Mwuahahahahah.

[pickapeppa]

Originally Posted by Chas in Me

Wolf Mom has given you good advice. I worked in land use planning and loved to discuss ideas and thoughts with people who wanted changes made. The ones who had the most success made thoughtful, reasoned, and well planned presentations. Learn the system and work within it.
Good luck.

Yes, and thanks Wolf mom for such great input. It's appreciated, and will be put to use.

Chas, where do people go to start the process? Do you approach the building and zoning department? Does a letter, or informal meeting suffice? Lunch? How about some homemade fudge.

[Chas in Me]

Generally, informally. I worked in a town of about 6,000 and people could walk in and talk. That was the best way because it didn't trigger any reports or actions. It just gave us a chance to get to know each other and gain an understanding of each other's position. If change was to be discussed, we then looked for ways to bring it about. Change is best accomplished when you are familiar with the reasons things are the way they are.
Also, talk to your neighbors. They may be against what you want to do, and a gunfight between neighbors, in front of any council, will most likely not bring change. If your neighbors agree with what you want to do, show evidence of that.
Save the goodies for when you are on first name basis with the planning staff.
Chas

[hunter63]

I agree with wolf mom, do your home work, ans see what happens.
The funny thing is that once you start asking questions and raising questions, you become "marked".
Remember to keep a low profile as much possible, and be ready with "benefits" of what you want to do, when ever you discuss it.
Good luck.

[pickapeppa]

So I talked with one of my neighbors who lived directly across the creek from the rooster. She said she'd love to have the opportunity to keep a couple of goats in her yard for her and her kids to enjoy, and hens for eggs. She mentioned starting a petition and offered to help me get signatures. Her feeling is the same as mine, that we moved to the country to enjoy all that comes with it. We both admitted to enjoying hearing our ag neighbors sheep, horses, and cows as part of what makes this 'country'. The rooster didn't bother her a bit, and she was closer than the neighbor who complained.

The one question that I really need information on is, who makes the ordinances? Who decides when and how they are changed? Is it a group process by the zoning and planning department, the county board? Can a petition and a proposal for change be enough for them to make that decision? Would they need to hold a hearing?

It's the actual process behind making these regulations that I know nothing about, and can't find any information.

I do appreciate the advice offered so far, but find myself still searching for answers.

[Terri]

Call the Planning department and ask them the procedure. The secretary at the city hall will know their number.

[Wolf mom]

Like Texican said, don't go tilting at windmills.

Do your homework before you start a petition. That "fight" might have already been fought & as hunter63 says, you will be marked. Boards don't like to rehash "old stuff".