Calling all septic experts!

[Ark]

Cant even spell SEPTIC without a mix up. GOOD GRIEF!

Septic problems, and dh incapacitated himself digging it up. He can barely walk, and the chiropractor told him this morning to have complete rest for at least 3 days (no work), probably more. No work, means no pay, because of no sick days.

Anyway, we have a big nasty puddle that the chickens are drinking out of - YUK! - and need to do something ASAP.

The puddle is at least 25 feet beyond the tanks, AWAY from the house. The drainfield pipes make an "L" shape. The part that has the huge puddle is right at the corner of that L, and that is where DH dug it up.

How do you figure out where it is clogged, if indeed that is the problem?

And how do you get it cleaned out?

And what the heck keeps dirt from going IN those little holes in the pipes and clogging it up? There was some kind of fabric looking stuff, that I suppose is supposed to take care of that problem, but it didnt look very effective.

I'd greatly appreciate ANY help as we cant afford to pay someone to do this. DS and I will have to do it.

[Cabin Fever]

Most drainfield lines are enveloped in gravel with a geotextile fabric above the rock. It is rare that a drainline will become plugged in one spot unless someone drove over it and crushed it. In reality, a drainline isn't even needed because most of the water is discharged through the first few holes in the pipe. The majority of water flows thru the gravel-filled trench and not the rock.

Assuming you haven't been using more water than normal, I suspect that either the soil is sealed because the septic tank hasn't been pumped in ages or, if you've had a lot of rain, the watetable has risen into your drainfield.

When was the last time that the septic tank was pumped.

[rambler]

It'll help Cabin out if you can tell us if you have had a real rainy period.

What type of soil you have - sandy, heavy clay, etc.

Is the drain line kinda deep, or real shallow.

Did a part of the line get damaged or crushed - that's the problem broken parts need to be replaced. (Any heavy traffic - truck, tractor, etc go over the leach area of late?)

Is there anything but liquid in the lines - if any type of solids, your tank was not pumped in time & you have several problems now & this will not be cheap or easy.

Or, the too much rain thing has saturated the soil & no place for the liquids to go. Should have the leach redesigned or relocated to drain properly, but just waiting for real unusual weather to settle down will maybe get you by. Or did a roof drain or some other water get diverted to this place & is saturating the soil?

Those are the 3 likely issues - damage pipe, clogged pipes (this is bad), saturated or compacted leach field soil.

--->Paul

[Cabin Fever]

Originally Posted by rambler

....Those are the 3 likely issues - damage pipe, clogged pipes (this is bad), saturated or compacted leach field soil....

In my experience, the most likely issue is clogged (or sealed) soil due to solids flowing past the septic tank due to infrequent or non-existent pumping of the tank.

[Ark]

Thanks Cabin and Rambler!!!!!!!!!!

OK, more info.

Two weeks ago, we scraped together $300 and paid a professional to empty the tanks. Two tanks, 1000 gallons. He was a little put out that we had "waited so long". Aha! But, we did NOT wait what we thought was too long.

This septic system is almost 4 years old, and there are four people living in this house. The washing machine does not even drain into the septic - it has a run off area that is separate. The guy said we should stop flushing paper towels, or wipies. I told him that we NEVER flush anything but TP. He said "Well, I saw lots of stuff that was not TP." Hmmmph! Obviously, I cannot be in there watching what the kids flush, but they swear they never flush paper towels. Maybe a guest has flushed baby wipes or something in the past, but it seems unlikely.

Type of Soil? Mostly caliche (sp?), flint, and some other kind of rock, with a little nice dirt on the top 12 inches.

When the guys were digging to install the septic lines, they couldnt get deep enough to lay the pipes at the required depth. It would have required the pounder thingie to break up the rock so they could dig deeper. Would have cost a fortune in hours of labor, and they decided that they would just lay them too shallow, and warn us not to drive over it. They did cover them with that fabric stuff first, then gravel, before putting what little dirt there was back on top.

[Ark]

BTW, not enough rain - we are in a drought.

And, someone did drive over it at some point - over two years ago. It was some guy with a huge truck and heavy trailer here to pick up a tractor. We WARNED him not to go that way, but then he did it anyway and had his window up, so DH had to chase after him, waving his arms, etc. Argh. That was a long time ago and I dont know if it could have caused a problem to show up two years later...

The guy who cleaned it out two weeks ago said there were LOTS of solids and we should empty the tanks more often. He also said he thought the puddle area was a whole different problem that just not emptying the tank often enough.

[Cabin Fever]

So, what I'm reading is that you've been in that the system is four years and your water use has always been more or less constantall during this time....right?

And someone drove over your drainfield...or pipe leading to the drainfield....two years ago but this problem just started now.....right?

My immediate reaction is that you have an insufficient depth of soil to absorb all the wastewater and therefore it is coming to the surface. But, I have my doubts with this theory because the problem has never occured in the past. If this were the problem, it should have happened long ago....unless you are using more water now.

If the perforated drainline was plugged or crushed, the water would still move thru the rock and soak into the soil (assuming the soil depth was sufficient).

[Ark]

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

So, what I'm reading is that you've been in that the system is four years and your water use has always been more or less constantall during this time....right? CORRECT. BUT, it was a new septic, put in when we bought this land.

And someone drove over your drainfield...or pipe leading to the drainfield....two years ago but this problem just started now.....right? CORRECT.

My immediate reaction is that you have an insufficient depth of soil to absorb all the wastewater and therefore it is coming to the surface. But, I have my doubts with this theory because the problem has never occured in the past. If this were the problem, it should have happened long ago....unless you are using more water now. We are not using more water now, so I agree with you that this probably is not the problem.

If the perforated drainline was plugged or crushed, the water would still move thru the rock and soak into the soil (assuming the soil depth was sufficient).

[Ark]

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

In my experience, the most likely issue is clogged (or sealed) soil due to solids flowing past the septic tank due to infrequent or non-existent pumping of the tank.

This sounds possible, considering what the septic guy told us about needing to get it drained more often.

If this were the case, what would the solution be? Wouldn't it be the pipe that is clogged rather than the soil around the pipe?

So, it should be layered like this???? Rock, pipe, fabric, then the dirt on top of it all?

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!

[Cabin Fever]

When did the problem first present itself: before or after having the tanks pumped?

[Cabin Fever]

Originally Posted by Ark

This sounds possible, considering what the septic guy told us about needing to get it drained more often.

If this were the case, what would the solution be? Wouldn't it be the pipe that is clogged rather than the soil around the pipe?

So, it should be layered like this???? Rock, pipe, fabric, then the dirt on top of it all?

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!

The soil is more likely to be clogged than the pipe. The septic tank, especially in a two tank system, with its baffles and such should not allow large particles to flow thru, such as rags, paper towels, condominiums, tarpoons and the like.....these are the only types of items that could potentially plug a 4" pipe with 1/2" holes. It is much more likely that the soil is plugged with sludge and/or fats and grease. Sludge and fats can flow out of a septic tank if it is full to capacity.

The layering you provided is almost correct. There should be about 2" of rock above the pipe and below the fabric.

Do you have a garbage disposal in your kitchen sink?

[Cabin Fever]

Does your second septic tank have any type of treatment (aeration) system in it that is run by electricity?

[Ark]

The problem (puddle) has been growing larger for 6 months. Started out very small, and was awhile before we really took much notice. It's at a low area and at first we thought it was just rain water.

So, it started well before we had the tanks pumped.

The first tank had lots of sludge that had to be poked and prodded at with a long metal bar type thing to get it all out. The second tank did not have that problem. It is not aerated or anything. No electricity involved.

We do not have a disposal in the sink - all fats, food leftovers etc, go into a special container for the chickens.

Thanks again for all your help!!

[Ark]

[QUOTE=Cabin Fever]The soil is more likely to be clogged than the pipe.
QUOTE]

What do you do if that is the case?

[mink]

is it possible that something in the distribution box is sending all the water down one pipe? id open the box and have a look........mink

[rambler]

[QUOTE=Ark]

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

The soil is more likely to be clogged than the pipe.
QUOTE]

What do you do if that is the case?

Water leaves the pipe & soaks into the soil. If the soil becomes full of grease & other particles that plug it - about like smearing peanut butter around the pipes - no water will leave those trenches. The typical best thing is to relocate the drain field - start over with it. There are fracturing techniques & other such that may work, but - that costs some too, and is not garenteed to work or last. I know you don't want to hear this.

The heavy truck could have caused a problem that hasn't shown up until now. But, I donno - would need to be in the line out of the tank, or junction box.

You wouldn't happen to have a leaking toilet or something that has been dumping extra water down the septic? Now, that could be showing up at this time, and combined with a damaged pipe from the truck.... Doesn't take much of a leak to add up to huge amount of water leaking on 24 hours a day. Esp if you are on rock & don't have much soil to absorb the water.

Typically a pipe leads from the septic tank to the leach field, which is 3 lines of perf pipe. A juntion box connects the outflow to the 3 perf lines. In dry conditions and a faimly of 4 that is somewhat careful on water use typically one of the 3 lines is enough to handle the water; and as Cabin says the gravel/rock should allow the water to flow if just a little perf pipe is available.

So, you either have a busted line leading from the septic to the juntion box, or a damaged junction box, or sealed up leach lines, or something very out of the normal.

--->Paul

[Cabin Fever]

Originally Posted by mink

is it possible that something in the distribution box is sending all the water down one pipe? id open the box and have a look........mink

Mink brings up a good point. Generally speaking, there are two ways that wastewater is delivered to drainfield trenchs. One way uses "drop boxes" where two or more lines of trenches are connected end-to-end via drop boxes. When #1 trench fills to the level of the down-gradient dropbox, water starts to flow to #2 trench, and so on.

The other method, the one Mink is talking about, uses of a single distribution box. Generally speaking, dividing wastewater flow to two or more trenches with the use of a distribution box is frowned upon because the box has to be perfectly level to evenly divide flow to each of the trenches. If the box is tilted, most, if not all, of the flow will go to just one trench. So, if you have a distribution box and your box is not level, all your flow may be going to just one trench and causing the flooding problem.

Perhaps you have the plan sheet showing your sysem or maybe you know the installer. If you do, find out if you have a distribtion box system or a drop box system. If it is the distribtion box system....which it may very well be since your soil depth is so shallow....find and dig up the box and see where the water level is in the box (you may have to pour some water in). The water level should be at the EXACT point below each distribution pipe leaving the box. If this is not the case, you'll need to relevel the box.

If the soil is plugged with sludge and scum, there is not much you can do with such a shallow soil depth. The TerraLift treatment that Rambler suggests would not be an option for this condition. The only "fix" for this problem is adding another trench or two and letting the plugged trenches dry out which allows the sludge and scum to decomposed. After a year or two, you might be able to put them back in service.

[fin29]

Originally Posted by Cabin Fever

If the soil is plugged with sludge and scum, there is not much you can do with such a shallow soil depth. .

I can offer a temporary solution that we used to help our system limp along when the drainfield got clogged with sludge--we have heavy clay soil and a high water table...tough circumstances. We had a guy come in and pump a 55 gallon drum of hydrogen peroxide through the drain pipe and into the leach field. The peroxide eats up the sludge just as it'll eat up a steak if you soak one in it--dissolving bio. solids; you could actually hear the peroxide fizzing in the ground. It solved our problem three years ago when we were certain that we would either have to do a TerraLift-type operation or completely redo the system. Our bandaid solution cost about $600 and solved our problem.

By the way, the peroxide also oxygenates the soil as it breaks down, which can provide its own "lift" to the leach field soil, increasing drainage capacity...kind of a mini TerraLift.

[T Rice]

How long before they typically need to be pumped out? We've been on ours 11 years and done nothing to it.

[Ark]

I only have a quick minute to spend here - just wanted to say that there is no distribution box, we are 99% sure.

So, thanks to all of yall for your help and advice - here is what DH thinks we need to do. Tell me if this sounds like a good solution.

Rent a trencher type machine that cuts through rock to make a new line for more pipe. Keep the old line up to the point where it takes a turn to the right, and just make it go straight on down the slight slope from there. Yea or nay?

We did go to the end of the line (the end of the "L") and we dug it up. There was lots of water about 12" down. So, it would seem that the water is making it all the way to the end of the line. IT's apparently just not dispersing through the soil likes it supposed to, which is what you already figured was the problem!