Gas Engine Tractors

[Mark T]

When buying a used tractor, how big a stumbling block should a gas engine (as opposed to diesel) be?

I know diesels are supposed to last longer, but if I am trying to get into haying with as the smallest possible loans, is it worth it to buy a $3000 35 hp model that runs well and has good tires and a loader, would the risk of a gas engine be worth it?

Oh - and I finally did buy one piece of haying equipment after months of scouring the penny savers - I got a David Bradley ground-driven rake in solid condition for the princely sum of two hundred dollars - delivered. Still no luck with a baler and haybine that are both reasonably priced and in good condition.

Thanks in advance for your input on a gas tractor.

[Jim S.]

First, around here $3000 for a tractor with loader is a steal if it is in good shape and does not have a lot of hours on it. Does your tractor have PS? That is a real advantage with loaders. You'll also want a dual range cluthc that allows you to stop the tractor while allowing the PTO to continue running (which keeps Ford 8N out of the picture unless they have been converted).

I have a Massey Ferguson 50 that is gas with PS and loader. It has about 3,400 hours on it now, and it runs like a champ. I have had neighbors say it sounds better than a new one.

I see no "risk" to a gas engine. The only thing about it is, they have to be warmed up just a little bit when it is very cold. Mine gets a few seconds of run time before we start out. On the other hand, they are much more apt to start when cold, without having to have any heater or other help.

I buy my fuel in 55-gallon steel drums when the price drops. Never have had any trouble with the fuel, and it does not gel in the cold, nor does it get stuff growing in it.

Don't get me wrong, diesels have their plusses. But gas-powered tractors will do just fine. Mine has been the only tractor on my farm for 17 years now. I would be way more concerned with condition and hours than I would with fuel type in used medium to small tractors.

[Mark T]

Wow, Jim,

Thanks for the quick reply.

I won't be using the tractor in cold weather (I'll be haying with it), so even that one drawback won't be a good deal.

I don't know how many hours are on it. It is a 1973 but hasn't been in regular use since the seller's father died ten years ago. He has it out once in a while to use the loader, but otherwise it sits in the shed.

Mark

[uncle Will in In.]

A 73 model 35 horse tractor with a loader is worth $3000 if it starts and runs ok. No matter how many hours is on it. I am guessing it is a standard American brand.

[Up North Louie]

Nothing wrong with gassers. I have two. One's 50 hp at the PTO. I also have a diesel at about the same, 52.

35 hp is right on the cusp of a tractor that will bale. We are talking about the size of a stock Farmall M, 400, that area. Remember, you have to pull a wagon, too, unless you want to pick up bales off the field. If the land you want to hay is relatively level, it'll do it for you. If you are working on uneven terrain, you're going to tax that tractor pretty heavily.

I prefer to bale with my diesel. Not just for fuel considerations. The diesel pulls steadier, more consistently.

Previous posts are correct, in that you need live power to run a haybine and a baler. If not, over-running clutch conversion splines aren't that expensive, but the wear and tear is greater, on both tractor and implement.

I would go a little bigger if I could. I would also want live hydraulics on a tractor, especially one with a loader, and at least one more remote, so you have hydraulics to your haybine.

Good luck,

Don

[travlnusa]

35 hp will work for small square balers, not so if you are planning on large rounds.

I have a 30 hp gas tractor, and am quite happy with it.

[jeffinmalvern]

gas tractors are fine. I have an IH 706 and a farmall 400, both gas. The only downside is that they use more fuel than the same horsepower diesel would.

[Windy in Kansas]

Until 1965 or thereabouts I used to dump 7-five gallons cans of gasoline into our two tractors every morning and 6-five gallon cans in them at noon.

Not a thing wrong with gasoline really. They tend to have a little less power when the going gets tough, but will throttle up faster when tough going is past.
They also consume more fuel per hour than a diesel of the same size would. There used to be a pretty wide difference between the two fuels but now it is closer. You might want to check to see what the road taxes are on each to see how they compare in price for farm use.

Also remember that a gas tractor will have spark plugs, points, condenser, rotor and cap to replace every so often. Also mechanics fee if you can't be taught to do it yourself or don't already know how. An occasional carb kit might be needed as well spark plug wires.

Bottom line, the diesel will probably operate somewhat cheaper on an annual basis. One injector pump repair and injector work will quickly wipe out the difference of tune up parts cost, just not done annually. Can you pull injectors yourself? Can you pull an injector pump yourself and reinstall correctly? Never dealt with them on anything but a 1070 Case and it was an easy task.

PTO--540 or 1000 or will that matter. My 1070 was a 1972 model and had a reversible shaft to give each.

Is the front end, i.e. tie rods, etc. in good condition? If maintained they should be.

[RosewoodfarmVA]

We do everything here with a diesel MF 135, about 30-35 hp. I can cut/rake/bale all day without filling the tank, while a neighbor on his gas tractor stops twice to refuel! You get 2x the use per gallon over gas. I would never consider a gas unless I was just a "hobby farmer" with just a few acres to tend. We cut about 50 acres for hay, plus manage woodland and logging, and farm odds n ends, with that one Diesel tractor. Fuel bill for this year was $240.00. That's two cuttings (very low yield though) on 50 acres! If you have a choice and can wait awhile, look out for a good diesel. You'll pay now, or pay for the next 20 years!

[Bearfootfarm]

If you have a choice and can wait awhile, look out for a good diesel. You'll pay now, or pay for the next 20 years!

I agree with that completely. I have a 1973 MF 175 and my neighbor has a 1954 Ford NAA. His will use at least twice as much fuel as mine, and it only has 23 horsepower, whereas mine has 63. He has to run about 1800 RPM's to pull a 5 ft disc, and I can run at about 1000 RPM pulling an 8 ft disc

You could probably find a larger diesel in the same price range, and do at least twice the work for the same amount of fuel

[Okie-Dokie]

Nothing wrong with gas powered equipment. Just less pulling power. A lot cheaper to repair than diesel and much easier to repair even though carb. can be lots more complex than injector and diesel pump. If you go to have them overhauled you can count on about $1000.00 per cylinder for diesel around here and about $400.00 per hole for complete out of frame overhaul for gasoline.

[NYSaanen]

I think I have to echo a lot of what Up North Louie has said.

You unfortunately are not only looking at a gas/diesel comparison you also need to look at what you will be doing with the tractor.

A few points that come to mind; some have already made them...

35HP is on the light end HP wise for baling. It can be done, but you will be limiting yourself on the size/model baler that you are able to use. I have diesel, never used gas on a regular basis. Borrowed a 45HP gas tractor last year, and it would not run my square baler. It would be a hard thing to get a tractor, then a baler, only to find the tractor won't handle the baler.

The tractor you are looking at may have been rated at 35HP when it was new, but is it still in fact putting out 35HP? Hard to say for sure.

Consider safety as it relates to weight. The general rule, is your tractor should be as heavy as what you are hauling. Don't let it fool you, the weight adds up fast. 3000# baler, 500#? wagon, 150 45# bales on the wagon ...so far that puts you up at over 10,000 pounds. This is an even greater consideration if you are working hills. Heavy loads will have a tendency to want to beat you down the hill.

To your basic question, gas or diesel, either can work, with some pluses and minuses on each side. My preference would be diesel, but that is me.

Also, something to consider....Sounds like you are borrowing to purchase this. You presumably would like to keep your investment for some time to come. Think wisely about your purchase. Consider not only what you need/want the tractor for now, but also think what you may need/want it for in two, five or ten years down the road. Is it possible you will expand? I know it is pretty easy to find things that you can do with that loader, once you have it handy. Will that size meet your needs today, and will it still meet your needs further down the road.

Best of luck.

[ericjeeper]

We always had to take a few extra fuel cans to the field.. It liked gas...Dad and I still talk about the days of gas farming.. Now just the other day we were trying to decide when the last time we even put fuel into one of the three diesels.They sip fuel compared to gas guzzling.
35 horse is going to be the minimum for cutting and baling hay. And even that it will surge the governor pretty hard every time the ram comes forward.
I would never ever again try to make hay with a gasoline fueled tractor. Save a thousand now and spend it in the next couple of years making hay buying gasoline.

[rambler]

How big is the hay project? I bale about 4000 small square bales a year with a IHC 300, about 35 hp, gas engine. Works well. Pull a bale basket with it. A more modern baler might want more hp, but the 1960's era NH & JD balers work well with that hp.

A haybine, or mower/conditioner - now that is the power hog, I used my 45hp gas tractor once, was not happy with the results, end up using my 85 hp diesel for that.

Nothing wrong with the gas tractor is you are thinking a couple 1000 bales. If you are looking at 10,000s then it's an issue.

--->Paul

[Scrounger]

It also depends on the baler! My Dad baled hay with a farmall H (and a neighbor baled hay with an 8n for 40 years). Back "then" you'd see a LOT of "H" Farmalls baling - many still today. The "H" was about a 24 HP tractor. It also did not have live PTO (and no ORC, but it would be a good idea).
As for gas/diesel. Right now the cost of Diesel is 40¢ or more above gas. In the summer it will be 5¢ to 10¢ higher. Diesel MIGHT use less fuel, depending on the job and operator, but if something breaks, it is way more to fix. Things like oil changes for a Diesel will also be much higher. Depending on your area, you will need to buy additives for the Diesel. Check your local policy on "off road" diesel - some places it doesn't exist. Here, you pay the regular price (same as "on road") and keep recipts for taxes (which may or may not get you a break). It also depends on the operator as to how long the tractor will last. Take care of it, it will take care of you.

[tyusclan]

Most points have been already been made on both sides, but just to add my $.02, I would look around for a diesel. Diesel will cost a little more up front, but will save money in the long run with longevity and fuel consumption.

Gasoline engines are made for transportation and recreation (and small engines), but if it's working it needs to be a diesel, IMHO.

Also, do not EVER buy any tractor with a front-end loader that doesn't have power steering. A four-wheel drive with a loader is a BIG plus, but power steering is absolutely necessary. You CAN run one without it, but you'll regret it everytime you use it.

[brosil]

I'm using a farmall H for baleing. I'd like to go a size larger but it works ok.

[catahoula]

Another thing to think about is a sickle bar instead of a swather/mower conditioner. The sickle bar won't draw down too much power from your tractor and laying your hay out like that it will dry faster, you already have a rake to make your windrows. Look for a baler that has a pony motor, then tractor horse power won't be an issue at all.