Calling all wood stove experts!

[Cheribelle]

2 winters ago, we had a chimney fire. Scary. So we went and bought new SS chimney liner, and a new Hearthsone stove. Stove is beautiful, supposed to heat 1900 sq ft, use less wood, yadda yadda yadda. Cost $2400 which was about the same as a season of fuel oil, so we went for it.
I HATE IT.
It does NOT heat that many feet, we close off the upstairs, have new windows, etc. I do like the secondary burn system. It is pretty. It does NOT hold an 8 hr burn like they say, so someone has to add wood every 2 hours. The ash builds up so bad that it has to go down every 2 days for a complete cleaning.
OK. the old stove is still sitting here, and I am seriously thinking about putting it back in. It is an Earth Stove, made in the 70's. BUT it does not have a baffle system or a "secondary burn" like they call it now, and flames literally go right up the chimney. Can we build something into it that will do what I need?
We are DIYers, DH can weld....
Any help out there?

[WolfWalksSoftly]

Does it have a blower? that helps a lot with heat output. As far as the ashes go, some wood leaves more ash than others..for the most part, the ash comes from the bark. Also, we have found there is more heat with a single wall pipe than with a full double wall pipe. We have a single wall that meets a double as it goes through the roof.
Also, if you don't have a heat gauge, it helps so you know if you are burning hot enough.

[RebootMyself]

Stoves are the ignition source for chimney fires, but a typical chimney fire happens from creosote build-up inside the chimney. It doesn't necessarily matter what kind of stove you have, if you don't clean the chimney and/or run the stove in such a way to coat the inside of the chimney with creosote, you run the risk of a chimney fire.

You can also have a fire because the chimney gets too hot and ignites surrounding wood (or whatever). I wouldn't call this a chimney fire, but some do. This can happen due to improper chimney/stovepipe installation, from a chimney fire itself (chimney fires can also ignite the roof as they spew burning bits of creosote), or from firing the stove way too hard (some would argue that this shouldn't be a possible cause in a good installation).

I wouldn't hesitate to reinstall the old stove if it is sound, you feel confident in your ability to operate it (some stoves are hard to manage), and, especially, if you keep the chimney clean.

Just my opinions...

[mdharris68]

What kind of wood are you burning?

I have a friend with a soap stone stove and it is very small in my opinion, but it cranks out the heat, and burns for 8 hours easy.

Do you have a moveable catalyst and are you keeping it clean?

[Up North Louie]

What Reboot said. Dirty chimney = problems.

I think they still make a unit called a Heatolator-- it's a baffle box with a fan that you splice into the vertical pipe above the stove. It recovers some of the heat going out the flue and the fan blows it back into the room. I had one before we put in the wood furnace that ties into the forced air system. They work pretty well. They're a little noisy, but no more so than the forced air fans.

If your furnace isn't burning hot enough for whatever reason, you're going to get more ash and more creosote. Be it wet wood, types of wood that aren't really suitable for heating [white birch, basswood, any sort of evergreen, punky stuff], when you get incomplete [relatively speaking] combustion, your ash and creosote problems go up dramatically. You have to sweep your chimney, and pull apart stove pipe and clean them out. It's distasteful, but necessary, and it's not that hard. Our furnace is pretty efficient, and we clean out the stove pipe at least once a month.

Hope this helps. Chimney fires are a drag.

Don

[mdharris68]

Originally Posted by Up North Louie

I think they still make a unit called a Heatolator-- it's a baffle box with a fan that you splice into the vertical pipe above the stove. It recovers some of the heat going out the flue and the fan blows it back into the room. Don

If you take heat away from your wood stove flue gases with one of these devices, it is possible to cool the flue gases to the point of condensation, which causes creasote to build up in your flue above the device. Whenever I see one in a house, I always explain the possibility to the homeowner of flue/chimney fire due to excess creosote.

[Up North Louie]

Which is why I went on to point out that if you use one, and even if you don't, you need to keep your flues and chimney clean. Burning wood is not for lazy people.

[NEOhioSmiths]

First off, go to hearth.com and post your problem there. It is a great forum and you will undoubtedly get answers from other Hearthstone owners. Also, it is a freestanding stove, right? (not an insert)

I'm in my third season of wood burning (second of 24/7 burning) some am a relative greenhorn, so keep that in mind. Regarding your problems:

(1) Use the blower as already mentioned if you can - key to getting heat out is air flow

(2) Ash buildup - this depends so much on how dry the wood is and what type of wood it is - burning dry wood will help minimize ash buildup. Further, when the ash/coal bed starts to get too deep in our stove I throw in a few pieces of some fast burning wood like poplar and run the stove wide open for awhile - burns down the coals.

(3) Long burn times are a function again of what type of wood you use, how you load the stove, and controlling the burn. Load a bunch of splits (as opposed to just a couple of big pieces), get going, then damper down the stove. I do this every night and have a nice bed of coals in the morning.

Let us know how things work out for and again, check hearth.com. I'm not affiliated with that forum at all, but have been given great advice from the folks there (just like this forum!).

[leoaloha]

I did the same thing. Bought a Harmon with secondary burn. It was an insert into the fireplace. I put in a SS liner with cap in the chimney flue. As an old time woodstove user, I like it. I cant get the heat that I want because its an insert but it does very well. Has a built in fan also. Over the years I have learned and this may apply to you - You need well seasoned high btu wood. OAK is by far the best easily obtained wood to use. This is a list of wood by btu content highest down to red oak.

Osage Orange (Hedge)
Hickory, Shagbark
Eastern Hornbeam
Beech, Blue
Birch, Black
Locust, Black
Hickory, Bitternut
Locust, Honey
Apple
Mulberry
Oak, White
Beech, High
Maple, Sugar
Oak, Red

Trust me there is a difference. Use only seasoned wood. Wet wood causes creosote. creosote causes chimney fires. Wet wood does not burn hot except for ash. (Ash wood not wood ash) If your stove is newer you probably cannot totally trim down the air for a full night burn as you have been use to. I found the same with mine. I can get a 7 hour burn and it has to be reloaded. Fill it to the TOP with wood wait 30 minutes on full setting and then cut it all the way down and go to bed. First thing in the morn is a reload. Your apparent output of the stove will also be based on the ambient temp outside. If it is really cold, (for me single digits) the furnace (oil) will come on a couple of times during the night. This is just a fact of thermodynamics. If you still feel that your stove is not giving you the required specs that were stated, check to see if all the gaskets are in place, no bent air controls, and no bent or broken components inside. I had to replace the flue damper gasket on mine and its only three years old. A good afterburner stove will have more gaskets than you can shake a stick at. (window, door, flue damper, afterburner assembly) all need to be functional or the stove will burn way to fast. The last thing is - the room that the stove is in will get way hot and the rest of the house will be cool. In this case you may need to circulate the air with a fan. Some people have floor vents for this.
If you are comparing your new stove to your old stove, are they the same btu rating? With the new EPA laws the btu ratings have become very confusing. EPA maximum rating vs Cord wood output maximum rating? see this link.
http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/hobtucmp.htm

Also review how you are using the stove for an overnight burn

See the following From the Hearthstone manual;

Overnight Burn Rate. An overnight burn, as you might
expect, allows you to keep an area heated while you sleep.
To create an overnight burn, first make sure the stove and
chimney are hot from an established fire. Next, pull the
primary air control fully open, and then completely load
the firebox with wood. Allow the fire to burn intensely for
20 to 30 minutes.
Finally, push the primary air control close to its lowest
setting; the fire will settle into a lower burn rate with a
small flame. The fire will now burn slowly and steadily.
The length and intensity of the fire depends on the type of
wood being burned, the strength of the chimney draft, and
other variables, which vary from installation to
installation.

Notice the part about the type of wood used.

Also you stated that you added a SS liner. This will change the draft rate of your stove. The bare chimney has a larger thermal mass to maintain a better draw. The liner will reduce that some as it has a lot less mass. On the subject of flues, It is a good idea to clean the chimney at least once a year. My insurance company wants twice a year. In the Hearthstone manual it also states that you need a hot burn to clean the flue. This helps keep the flue clean. ALOT.

Hope this helps

L

[littlejoe]

I use a Earthstove and a unit similiar to what UNL desribes, sometimes using a box fan in behind the stove to move air when it's extremely cold.
I really like the old stove! The door is big enough to put some good sized pieces of wood in, and the stove deep enough to hold more than one. It holds a fire well overnight also.
I don't have access to any hardwoods, but when burning pine or yellow cedar, it will go a couple of weeks without needing the ashes cleaned. Elm is a different story.
Creosote buildup has been minimal, maybe due to the hot fires, and going into a brick chimney?

[Donkey]

what others have said....... plus.......

are your upstairs inside walls between the rooms insulated?

if your closing off rooms and they are not, the cold may well be seeping right thru uninsulated walls and under room doors.. then since cold falls, it travels right down the stairs to the first floor.....

might be warmer in the long run if you heat all interior rooms

[Cabin Fever]

There has been a lot of good advice already given, but I think most of it does not apply to your situation. As I understand it, you've been burning wood for many years in an Earthstove. The Earthstove did a good job of heating your home. Then you changed to a Hearthstove and it doesn't heat as much. Everything else has remained the same....in other words, you're burning the same species of wood, the wood is the same degree of dryness as in the past, the house hasn't changed, etc.....nothing has changed between now and then except for the model of woodburning....right?

It you are trying to get an all night burn (~8 hours) on one load of wood, of course it's not going to heat 1900sf. The "up to 1900sf" figure (read "up to") is based on optimum conditions such as a fully loaded firebox, burning dry, high BTU firewood, with a full open air damper. If the firebox size is the same on the Heartsone is the same size as your old stove, you should actually being getting more heat out of the Heartstone because of the secondary combustion system. This system makes the stove more efficient; consequently, you get more BTU output per pound of wood burned.

I don't understand the ash buildup. Assuming the wood is completely burned and the ash is all white to gray in color, the stove has nothing to do with it. The specie and quantity of wood burned dictates the amount of ash produced (again assuming the wood is completely burned leaving white to gray ash).

[Cheribelle]

More info. Yep Cabin Fever we have been doing it for many years. Same way, whatever wood we can get and cut, etc. The fire was actually because DH was told by the insurance man to line the brick chimney. The liner wasn't high enough out of the brick, creasote ran over the top and got between the liner and the brick. This is what got hot and caught fire. So he redid all that with SS, took it up higher past the chimney top, capped it. $400. And he did the work himself.
The stove is a very efficient one, hardly any smoke comes out of the chimney do to the reburn, but it is tiny compared to the old one.
Also the Earth Stove has it's own "thermostat" that adjusts for the heat output. The only thing we can do with the Hearthsone is burn it wide open ALL the time. We have thermometers on the stove top, on the chimney pipe above and below the blower that is also in the chimney pipe, also run a fan across the back of the stove into the rest of the house.
We are not strangers to heating this way, just thought the newer "efficient" stove would be better, and $2400 later deciding it isn't. Still burn as much wood as ever, and the house is cold.

[Cheribelle]

What I would like to know is Can we put a secondary burn system into this old relic?

[Cheribelle]

Oh, and I have been burning wood for about 30 years, we know how to burn out and clean the chimney...
Also know that we don't always burn the ideal wood, but like I said, 30 years we have kept warm. This stove is just too danged small.

[Beeman]

Originally Posted by Cheribelle

More info. Yep Cabin Fever we have been doing it for many years. Same way, whatever wood we can get and cut, etc. The fire was actually because DH was told by the insurance man to line the brick chimney. The liner wasn't high enough out of the brick, creasote ran over the top and got between the liner and the brick. This is what got hot and caught fire. So he redid all that with SS, took it up higher past the chimney top, capped it. $400. And he did the work himself.
The stove is a very efficient one, hardly any smoke comes out of the chimney do to the reburn, but it is tiny compared to the old one.
Also the Earth Stove has it's own "thermostat" that adjusts for the heat output. The only thing we can do with the Hearthsone is burn it wide open ALL the time. We have thermometers on the stove top, on the chimney pipe above and below the blower that is also in the chimney pipe, also run a fan across the back of the stove into the rest of the house.
We are not strangers to heating this way, just thought the newer "efficient" stove would be better, and $2400 later deciding it isn't. Still burn as much wood as ever, and the house is cold.

I have a Vermont Castings so I'm not familiar(as in never owned one) with your stove. I looked at stone stoves but the price was way high and the stove didn't seem right for my climate. Mine is pretty small and has no bower but it heats my house pretty well, burns 8hrs. if it's turned down, and has an easy to dump ash pan that can be dumped while the stove continues to burn. The only time I get a lot of ash is when I burn jumk wood.

I'm very surprised that your stove must "burn wide open". I would have thought it to be an airtight stove with air intake controls. All of the wide open stoves I've seen are the Tractor Supply type and the only control you have is a damper in the stove pipe if you install one. As stated to haet 1900 sq. ft. it would definetly have to run wide open but I don't see how any stove could burn for 8hrs. wide open unless it was huge.

What diameter pipe does the stove manufacturer require? What diameter is your flue? I have seen mis matches cause problems. I'm not a fan of the in pipe blowers as they cool the smoke and I don't see how you could clean them or clean past them. I would think if you brushed the chimney all of the creosote would fall into that blower assy and be trapped, just my opinion of the ones I've seen installed, yours might be installed differently.

[Cabin Fever]

I think you may have answered your own question. The Hearthstone has a smaller firebox than your old Earthstove. Even though the Hearthstone is more efficient, it cannot put out as many BTUs/hr as your old Earthstone. And, a smaller firebox is not condusive to an all-night burn because you can't load it up as much.

You did make one statement that does puzzle me. You said you are burning as much wood as before. If you're burning the same number of cords of wood per year, theoretically you should be putting more heat into your home now with a more efficient stove even if it has a smaller firebox.

[Cheribelle]

Pipe matches the stove, DH brushes down from the roof and up from the stove when he cleans it. Really very little in the chimney ever.
We have a thermometer on the pipe and when the stove is running good, the pipe is good and hot within range above and below the fan. Problem is getting the stove up to temp.
There is an ash cleaner grate in the bottom, but it's next to useless. Dumps coals along with the ashes.

[Cheribelle]

CF, that's what I thought, too. I really had high hopes for this new stove.
Still looking for a secondary burn that I can put into the old Earth Stove....
Bet my uncle could have built one, but I never thought to ask him, and it's too late now.

[Cabin Fever]

It would be real tough to retrofit a secondary combustion system into an existing stove. You might have better luck installing a catalyst.