Approaching someone to see if they want to sell thier land...

[emulkahi1]

Hello Everyone. I have a question I wanted to run by you....I thought it was something that maybe others have had experience with and I was interested in any advice/feedback/input, etc. you might have.

My DH and I live right in the commercial area of our small community's downtown. I have a small lot next to the building that we are restoring that currently serves as my teensy garden, and (in the back fenced half) as my greyhound's yard. This growing season, I am going to be apprenticing at an organic farm up in Whitefish, MT (8 hrs from here). It is my goal to take the knowledge I gain during this upcoming year and apply it to an operation I get going here in my own community.

The problem? Our complete lack of property. And the fact that, for a small town, there are ridiculous amounts of regs about what one can and cannot do w/in the city limits.

Fortunately, the city limits are less than 1/2 mile away, and there are a # of lots that appear rather abandoned (shacks that are leaning, about to fall over, etc...). It was my thought that I could maybe approach some of these land owners and ask if they'd be willing to sell.

My question: How does one go about doing this? I do not personally know the landowners, though I do know their names because of public records. I wouldn't want to waste $$ on an appraisal before I knew if they were even interested in selling....Or if they are, if they would be anywhere near my price range. One particular piece of property is a couple of acres in size and I know that it belonged to an elderly person that passed away and left it to their kids. The kids do not live here in town and the property is completely idle. I covet it (lol :baby04: ) each time we drive by and would love to approach them about purchasing it, but would want to know what I was doing before I did so. Any advice on this topic? Any major do's or do not's? I would love to hear your input! Thanks!!

Erin

[sisterpine]

That sounds easy enough! First ask the old folks in town if they know who owns the property just out side of town, next go to the courthouse where property taxes are paid and they will have the info you need right there! They will even have mailing addresses for all the folks who own the land. sis

[Dutchie]

You say you already know who the owners are and because you saw the tax records, you have their address. Next, take a look at what the assessed value is on the tax record. This is not necessarily the market value but it wil give you a starting point.

Now ..... how is the economy in your town? Is it healthy? Improving? Declining?

If it is declining the property values may be declining as well. Talk to a realtor if there is one available and willing to help you. In fact, you may have a trusted realtor do the negotiations for you. This may save you money in the long run.

Another thought is, if the price of the land is out of your reach, see if you can get a grant from the town to help you set it up. AFter all, your plan will improe your community.

[agmantoo]

Approach the owner with an attempt to lease the property. If that works, it will get your foot in the door. You now have the opportunity to converse with the owner and establish a good relationship. That relationship will get you in good standing and should give you first refusal should the property go on the market. I have leased farmland in the past and when and if the land sold I was usually in the loop, often at a major advantage either in price or financing.

[Maura]

Contact the landowners to see if there is interest. Have a price in mind. You can look at the sale prices over the last two years of vacant property outside of town, but near town to get an idea of how much these parcels are worth. If they have a well and septic they are worth more, but you may be able to buy for the price of a vacant lot with no water or septic.

[Hoop]

DO get to know exactly what similar properties in the area have for an asking price and what they actually sell for.
DO visit realtors and the county courthouse.

Understand this is a 2 part scenairio. Part 1 is if they are willing to part with the property. Part 2 is the price at which they're willing to part with it.

Also, for the property in question, make 100% certain there are no liens against the property, there is legal access, what utilities are availible, and what zoning/building code regulations are in place.

The worst thing you can do is to make a too high or too low offer on the place. Be reasonable if you find a place you really like and don't want to miss out on owning it.

[bluetick]

I'm on the other side of the fence. A guy called me about a week ago to see if I had any interest in selling my place. Coming out of the blue as it did, I hemmed and hawed, but then I live here, it is not vacant property. As it turns out, I am somewhat interested and am having an appraisal done.

The guy had gone to check the county records before calling me. He knew my name and the assessed value for tax purposes. Since he is fairly local, he probably also inquired around, because he was aware I had the place on the market briefly a few years ago.

My suggestion is to be pleasant, not pushy, and be patient. The guy who called me asked if I didn't get back in touch with him, would it be okay for him to call me back in a month - I said yes.

[nathan104]

One thought on the advice to lease it first. If you were to do this, any improvements or clean up of the property, even cutting the grass, you do while leasing it, will only increase its appeal to others and raise its selling price.

If you do approach the owner, be patient. If they were seriously interested in selling, more than likely they would have it listed already. It may take them off gaurd but put the idea in their head that well, maybe they should sell it. Good luck whichever way you go.

[texican]

great advice so far...

first, if I were evenly remotely interested, I'd (ssssshhhh, don't tell anyone this, because ohmygosh some people get all disturbed by such a concept) sneak on the place, and take a soil sample. Be terrible to spend time and money trying to get a place, then find out there was once a toxic waste dump there, or the topsoil was non existent.

I meant to ask this before, about the internship, and living in Montana. Is there a long enough growing season up there, without greenhouses, or hothouses? to make a living off of gardening? (CSA?)... I really don't know. I'd imagine the season would be short, and warmth loving veggies wouldn't like the cool weather.

And, if I lived in the city, (saints preserve us) I'd definitely consider guerilla gardening.

[emulkahi1]

Thank you, everyone, for all of your ideas and advice! We own the place we have now, but it was on already on the market when we purchased it. So this idea of seeking out property that isn't already for sale is a new one for us. I was just reading DH your replies....they are very helpful .

Texican--The lady that owns the farm I'll be interning at does have a greenhouse, as well as several hoop houses that she uses. Down here in Roundup (central MT), we typically have at least 3 frost-free months. But she was telling me that up in Whitefish (way up north) they have frost all but 1....maybe 2....months of the year. So season-lengthening is a big part of her methods, and I am hoping to get a good education in those various techniques. She's done it for decades though, is the chair of the state's organic association, and has a thriving market garden/CSA/produce stand each year, so it appears like she's found ways to make a good go of it. It will be nice to see how she accomplishes it, because I know that the short growing season definitely gives me fits each year. It is so frustrating to have one's tomatoes just starting to come around when the nights get so cold!

And I've just gotta ask. What the heck is guerrilla gardening?! (LOL....I've never heard that term before :baby04: ).

Thanks again for all of your helpful suggestions!!

Erin

[Quint]

Find a realtor in the area and if they're anything like here they'll break their butt trying to find something for you. You can also make a trip to the local courthouse and look up plat maps and aerial surveys. Find out the owners and write them and ask them if they'd like to sell. I get several calls from realtors and several "cold call" letters and phone calls a year from people asking to buy my farm. Got a letter from someone out of state last month wanting to buy my place.

[emulkahi1]

Quint--Thanks for your ideas. I am guessing that you're not interested in selling your farm, so no offers would be accepted. But is there a particular approach that you find more appealing? Like, if you WERE thinking about selling, would you rather be approached by a realtor? Or do you have any definite do NOTS for writing a cold call letter? No problem if you'd rather not volunteer that info....Just figured it couldn't hurt to ask. :baby04:

Erin

[Ken Scharabok]

Rather than a realtor you might consider an attorney who practices real estate transfers. They can do all of the paperwork required, likely at a considerable savings over a realtor.

The attorney can contact them with an inquiry, then to relay an official offer if the property owners sounds interested in selling.

[Quint]

Yeah I should have mentioned that Ken. I've had a couple attorneys contact me over the years. One in particular is really persistent but he isn't doing it for a client he wants it himself.

emulkahi1 - I don't know if I find one more acceptable than the other or more appealing. The letter is kind of nice and they all include call back numbers, email addresses etc. May be more productive than trying to find people at home with a phone call. I'd definitely prefer a realtor least of all but I realize why some people choose to use them. As a general rule I don't trust them any farther than I can throw them but they are helpful in certain circumstances like trying to run down property where you don't currently live.

A polite letter introducing yourself, what you are looking for and contact numbers is good. Also it is nice for folks to include how they found me. Sometimes I really wonder. A guy from all the way across the country contacted me and I'm not sure how he found my place.

And no, I have no interest in selling my farm. It's been in the family for 160 or 170 years and I love it. I'll probably be buried here. Not that people don't ask. Like I said I get letters and calls all the time. Realtors are persistent. There are a couple I've told that I'll never sell but every year or so I get a call. They usually say something to the effect of "I know you said you didn't want to sell but I have someone who...." Maybe it works though. I did sell a non-farm related piece of property I owned after probably 5 years of badgering by a realtor. I threw out an absurdly high number that was waaaay above market and she took it back to her client and they snapped it up. I was shocked.

Oh and hunting leases. Sweet Maria do I ever get pestered about hunting leases.

[Ken Scharabok]

I also get a couple of letters of interest a year from out-of-the-country realty firms. All read basically the same, "We have a client(s) very interested in property such as your farm. If you are interested in discussing a possible sale, ...". It is nothing more than a cold call letter sent to everyone with farmland in the entire county. They get the name and address from the assessor's recorder's office for any property zoned as agriculture.

In county firms know my farm is so not for sale they don't even ask anymore.

[painterswife]

Montanna has a wonderfull online mapping and property ownership system.
http://gis.mt.gov/

You can find all the info you need right here for ownership of property.

[emulkahi1]

Thank you, again, for all of the very helpful replies. It is easier delving into something new w/ some accounts from those that have been there/done that. Painterswife.....thank you for the site!! What a resource that is! Makes it so much easier than having to take a trip to the courthouse.

I'll read DH everyone's suggestions when he gets home. I think we'll probably end up doing the research about surrounding properties' asking and selling prices and then write a letter. Should one name the price they have in mind in their first letter? Or wait to see if there is interest in selling first?

Thanks again!! Your input has been a big helpful .

Erin

[HillsideHouse]

My brother has made a mint just by sending out letters to properties he was interested in (including sending to banks) for rehabs. He's not real good at *cold calling*, heck, I'm not either. I did make a call the other day on some land that I've been in love with for several years, it had a new FSBO sign outside. I didn't do my homework before calling though because what I figured was about 20 acres was really 120 & he just got it under contract for right under a million bucks. I felt like an idiot but he was so very nice about it. He told me he had over 2,000 acres he'd like to sell & would prefer to find buyers who would not develope it. ME ME ME!!! So he said to take a look on the GIS, figure what we want & make an offer. Gezzz, I'll take that slim chance I might be able to afford something that has a water source anyday!! Keeping my fingers crossed here.

I say go for it!!! All they can say is NO.

Kind regards;

KAT

PS, just an FYI, the GIS in our area runs a year behind...go figure.

[mommagoose_99]

When I first got started in market gardening I used land that belonged to my neighbors. I kept their yard mowed and let them have what produce they wanted. I borrowed about 2 acres and planted it. I did this for about 6 years. I would contact the land owners and ask them if I could trade work on the property for the use of the land. Get it in writting. Good luck
Linda

[Ode]

Originally Posted by Quint

Oh and hunting leases. Sweet Maria do I ever get pestered about hunting leases.

Hunting leases?