help! our house is freezing.... where to start?

[cathleenc]

We've been in our new-to-us old farmhouse for 8 weeks now - central south wisconsin. We're absolutely freezing! Need ideas about how to figure out what is wrong and what to do about it.

Current heat sources:
lp gas furnace in basement, forced air (checked/serviced 12/10)
*** adequate heat to main floor, close to nothing gets to upstairs

wood stove on first floor
*** heats the living/dining room adequately, nothing to upstairs, moderate to kitchen, nothing to side porch area

What we know:
1) NO insulation in the house, none anywhere
2) pipe from woodstove is just barely warm as it passes through 2nd floor room
3) most windows were replaced within last 6 years, couple of older ones not mostly newer ones
4) decent exterior doors
5) mainly used entrance to house is through the garage
6) when servicing the furnace the heating guy commented on how absurdly small the forced air pipes to the upstairs were

Can you help me come up with a game plan as to how to get a nice warm house? What should we do first? Who should I call for consults/help? What kind of insulation to look for?

thanks!
Cathy
(looking to get both a nice warm house in winter and a cool, comfy house in summer - the house does have central air)

[AngieM2]

I'm not much help, but when I lived in an uninsulated house in the UP of Michigan, the 2nd story had a cut out space with a grill over the oil heater in the room below to allow the hot air to rise and help circulate in the house.

The house was not really "warm", but reasonable with layered clothes on during the winter.

Also, do you have plastic over the windows to help keep the cold out?

Others in the N. Country will have better ideas.

Angie

[mdharris68]

Start with insulation. Next replace old windows. Seal up all air infiltration. Then have a heat/cool load ran on your house to see what you actually need to accomplish the task. Although you may have forced air heat and cool, it still may be inadequate. The last owner could have been hot blooded or just plain tight with money.

[Forerunner]

If your stove pipe is barely warm in the second story, you may not have enough fire. A good stove should be able to keep the house more than comfortable if it's tight at all. Lack of insulation will cause a need for more wood to maintain the temp, but you should be able to get the place reasonably comfortable unless you have gaping holes in the walls.
Shut off any unneeded rooms for the winter. No point heating those.

[TheBiscuitQueen]

I would start by sectioning off the house. Plan on spending most time in the warmest rooms (kitchen and livingroom) and don't worry about the rest for this winter. Bedrooms will just be for sleeping, that is it. I wore a hat to bed when I lived in a similar house, and had a huge pile of blankets. Change your cloths right in the bathroom after showers or downstairs. Maybe a little electric heater for the bathroom when it is in use?

You can use blankets hung in doorways to do this, or draperies of you want it to look nice. You could also open them up at night to send some heat upstairs.

Sounds like you need to redo the heating duct system, but that probably is not something to tackle right now. Forced air is not a very nice heating system-you end up hot, then cold, and get way more dust. We have old water radiators, and I really like them. They keep the house more consistant. You may end up changing out the hot air-which may leave you with less heat than you have now for a while.

I used just pink fiberglass insulation with the paper backing when I started demolishing some of the plaster and lathe. Turned out because the house is so old when they had blown in insulation 20 years ago there were so many cross beams half the walls never got insulated. If you decide to go blown in, make sure the guy is good enough to estimate how much insulation should go in the space to tell if there are cross beams.

Good luck.

[WisJim]

Do you have attic insulation? Is it in the attic floor or in the rafters? It is easieset to add more insulation in an attic floor, if the attice is unused space.

Can you feel drafts around windows or doors? Weatherstripping, caulk, inside plastic over windows are just a few ways to deal with that.

Any way to check insulation in the walls? We lived in a (rental) old farmhouse near Madison years ago, and on a cold windy day we could feel air moving through cracks in the plaster walls, cracks that weren't visible from a foot away.

Were the "new" windows of good quality, installed properly, and have insulating glass? You shouldn't feel any draft around the edges of properly installed windows, although you may feel cold air from the glass.

Insulating window coverings could be of value, but are either costly or take time and money to make. We like "Warm Windows" and use them on a number of windows in our place.

Any ductwork going through unheated space should be insulated.

[susieM]

Start with plastic bubblewrap on the windows, and consider heavy drapes and shutters. Second with socks and soup and cocoa. Then, live in one room, and close off the others. If you have to sleep in the bedrooms, put the mattresses into puptents, and get feather blankets and hot water bottles. Ifyou have hot water, take baths just before bed. If you have electricity, consider electric blankets.

Put carpets or throw rugs onto the floors, and wear socks and houseslippers. Layer clothes and wear woolley hats during the day (the hat of the day at my house is bright pink and knitted). Consider wall coverings made of plaster backed by styrofoam or another form of insulation. Make the main room you live in as small as possible...consider lowering the ceiling and/or putting up walls or hanging drapes. Insulate the attic and under the floorboards.

Ski jumpsuits are lightweight, comfortable, and easy to wash and dry.

Dress the kids in clean teeshirts under their pyjamas...that way, they don't have to undress all the way down to bare skin in order to get dressed for school. Bedsocks are also very good.

Don't forget underbeds...actually under-mattresses. Put a comforter or a quilt between the mattress and the sheet for greater warmth and less bed draft. Don't forget bedcovers....giant pillowcases for bedding help with bed drafts much better than simple sheets and blankets. Hot water bottles help, too.

Stop all drafts...keyholes, underdoor spaces, window unevenness, hallways and stairways where updrafts and breezes can flow...think drapes or insulation. If the outside to inside doors go directly into the living quarters, make a little entryway for it, so it's apart, and not opening the door directly into the living places.

Consider extreme sleeping bags. Sleep all in one room. Soup, socks, oatmeal, cocoa...

[susieM]

Dream of spring...it will soon be here, and we're almost at the longest night...it's gotta get better from here on in.

[seedspreader]

The idea of a whole house being a constant warm temperature was not very common when your house was built (if it is indeed an old farmhouse) As such, in the winter, many rooms were not used and living was limited to a much smaller portion of the house. I can assure you that heating a side porch was not important for them.

As everyone above pointed out, you will basically have to overhaul the house with energy efficient windows, house wrap/insulation and siding will eliminate drafts between walls and insulation in the attic area. To me it sounds like a big house and the only other solution will be a bigger heater.

Or... you can do as the old timers did... and live with it, embrace it and limit your use of the house to the inner, warmer areas.

[big rockpile]

I'm thinking the Stove Pipe is ok going through the Floor,I don't think you want it hot.

Heat rises so you have to have Vents that you can open and close between the downstairs and upstairs.Just let the warm air do what it does.

Come Spring or Summer have Insulation Blowed in Walls and Attic.

big rockpile

[cath]

We've done the vent through the floor thing, it helps!

For a quick fix try using fans to blow the warmer air up to the cooler areas of the house. You will probably need to have the area around the woodstove warmer than you would usually. Then use the fan (or fans) to circulate the warmer air to the cooler areas.

But, yes, improving insulation will need to be a priority.

[big rockpile]

You might put in a couple of the Ventless Gas Heaters up there.Just a matter of running Gas lines up putting Shut Off valves in,mounting the Heaters,checking for leaks and firing them up.

Oh get the ones with built in thermostat.

big rockpile

[Daddyof4]

Originally Posted by cathleenc

Current heat sources:
lp gas furnace in basement, forced air (checked/serviced 12/10)
*** adequate heat to main floor, close to nothing gets to upstairs

clean filters, make sure vents are not clogged.

wood stove on first floor
*** heats the living/dining room adequately, nothing to upstairs, moderate to kitchen, nothing to side porch area.

Depends on the size of the stove. We had a friend with the same problem so he cut vents into the floor of each upstairs room so that the heat would rise up into the room. I'm not sure if he powered it with a fan or if he just let the heat rise into the upper floors on its own.

What we know:
1) NO insulation in the house, none anywhere
That's your biggest enemy. Start with caulking the exterior around windows and cracks. Then if need be put plastic over the outside of your windows. If you don't have storm windows, get some. They make a lot of difference.

Then you will want to blow some insullation into the attic.

The walls are harder. Go to your Lowe's or Home Depot and ask about the best method for insulating walls that are already sealed. I would blow insullation into them but the problem is it settles over time. Check with the experts on that.

2) pipe from woodstove is just barely warm as it passes through 2nd floor room

Make sure your chimney and all stove pipes are thoroughly cleaned.Even minor buildup of soot can reduce draw substantially and make your stove inefficient

3) most windows were replaced within last 6 years, couple of older ones not mostly newer ones.

See comments above about windows.

4) decent exterior doors

Not sure what to tell you. Storm doors offer a measure of insullation.

5) mainly used entrance to house is through the garage


6) when servicing the furnace the heating guy commented on how absurdly small the forced air pipes to the upstairs were.

Something you can try is to shut off some of the downstairs vents such as in rooms that have two vents use only one. Or a room adjoining the living room may get enough heat from the living room not to need a vent. Start shutting them off one at a time and more air will be distributed with the remaining vents including the ones leading upstairs. And keep your filter clean!!


Can you help me come up with a game plan as to how to get a nice warm house? What should we do first? Who should I call for consults/help? What kind of insulation to look for?

thanks!
Cathy
(looking to get both a nice warm house in winter and a cool, comfy house in summer - the house does have central air)

Again, you can rent an insullation blower and blow the insullation into the attic yourself. Get with the Lowes/Home Depot people and they can usually recommend a plan of action for your walls.

[Ardie/WI]

If it makes you feel less alone, you're describing our old farmhouse when we moved here fifteen years ago. We're in north central Wisconsin. We just had an OLD oil furnace in the basement and near froze that first winter.

In Spring, we installed a Central boiler furnace (wood is cheap out here.) Slowly, we ripped out walls and put in insulation. The roof leaked and had to be replaced. We put in new windows.

It's still drafty and the floors are cold and we don't really heat the upstairs.

Knowing the people here, you will get plenty of good advice.

OH, and invest in long insulated underwear. That about saved me from freezing.

[chickenista]

I feel ya! I am sitting here to type in the coldest, unheated room in the house! I am wearing many layers including a coat with a hood! I am still cold..it was 19 last night and still not above freezing. I could see my breath in the kitchen yesterday when I drank a sip of coffee!
We too just moved and have no insulation yet. The windows are old and they blow.. I have tried the bubble wrap..but the duct tape won't stick once it gets cold! Brrr!
Last night watching tv I had on layers, coat and under blankets..
This is not our first freezing cold house experience! At our last rental the only thing over our heads the first winter was a layer of the cardboard ceilng tiles..empty space and tin! You could see your breath everywhere! The worst is the bathroom...once my rear hit the cold seat.. I couldn't go to save my life!! Misery. I slept in many layers..two or three sweatpants, an angora sweater next to my skin, turtlenecks on top of that, sweatshirts and a coat, 4 pairs of socks, a hat and gloves with tons of blankets on the bed...I would wake up at night so cold sometimes that I couldn't go back to sleep. I would just lay there and wait....
We put in 100$ of the loose insulation in that house and the next winter it was just sweater weather inside! We are in the process of cleaning out the "attic" here and putting in insulation..$8 a bag.. not too bad. We do a little at a time! The windows will have to wait!
We do have a box fan by the woodstove to move the hot air around and we are going to cut a hole for inline duct fan and piping to carry the heat to the other side of the house. Word of warning on the boxfan/stove hookup... Place fan between woodstove and where you want the air to go. We had it set up to blow across the stove and it was blowing so much cold air across the stove that the metal didn't have a chance to heat up.. roaring fire and you could put your hand on the stove and the pipe! We moved the fan and now it is good and hot again!
I have hung "winter" curtains on the windows where we sleep and sit around the most. You can get cheap blankets at a thrift store... they help alot! I do not hang them on the south side of the house because the solar heat makes up for any loss. If your bathroom is small, keep the door closed and light a candle. You would be surprised at how much warmth one jar type, dirt cheap, Family Dollar candle can put out. Plus, it smells pretty. Place all towels etc.. near woodstove to warm up before showering.. shower in the heat of the day if possible! Let the water stand in the tub after your shower until the heat leaves it.. it really helps too.
We also have little electric heaters for the bedrooms..I know decadence.. and a work site propane furnace thing in the kitchen with a fan blowing the heat towards the north side of the house. After the insulation is in we hope to do away with that... but it is necessary right now just to live.
I hate a cold house. I hate a cold house. I thought my days of freezing to death were over, but nooooo! I have to wait one more year..just one more winter.. I can do this.

[Pink_Carnation]

I would get the insulation in the attic and use some thermometers in various spots so you know how much temp. variation there is.

[wy_white_wolf]

Just a thought.

How close is the woodstove to the thermostat for the furnace? Could be it's keeping the furnace from turning on. I've always liked have the air intake for the furnace close to the woostove so you could use it to circulate the warm air from the woodstove throughout the house.

[mpillow]

Cut a vent hole and place a grate in the upstairs floor over(or as near as possible) the woodstove....How big is the stove? Bigger is better if your cold and the chimney is in working order. A small fan (desktop) will help to circulate the woodstove heat into other rooms too. We use one desktop fan about 4ft from stove and 2 ft higher than top of stove....our house is roughly 30*60ft and the woodstove heats the whole house all too well! And it was below zero this morning!

[AJ Williams]

They have duct fans that go in ducts to help move air. Try some of those to get heat upstairs. Make sure someone hasn't disconnected ducts between floors. Make sure your fan in your furnace is big enough to push the air upstairs.

[FrankTheTank]

To those that "ripped out the walls". How did you go about doing this? From the inside i take it? Were they plaster? How do you fix them? Are batts of insulation better then blown insulation?

The walls in our house are terrible. I had to run a pipe through one and found about a quarter inch piece of yellow insulation backed with some black paper. That was it! House was built in the 60's. I would love to insulate, but the siding doesn't need replacing and ive heard that blown insulation likes to settle in walls cavities thereby ruining your insulation properties. We have good insulation in the attic, and newer windows.

Windows are overrated...and expensive in my opinion...put up some plastic or some thick curtains...you'll probably get more R value then some fancy triple pane window. I read a lot of posts over on another board dedicated to windows and have never heard of so many problems (washing machines maybe?). Most problems are with installlation, however.