Anyone familiar with deeds and real estate?

[nathan104]

Im buying 5 acres in Cass county for cash. We are just writing up a warranty deed, having it notarized, and filing it at the courthouse. Current owners deed states owners as "husband" and/or "wife". They are planning to just send the wife to the notary to have the deed signed. They state that since the deed reads and/OR between their names that it only takes one of them to sign it. Is this correct?

Meeting them in the morning and just found out that the guy will be out of town. Hoping someone here might know. Thanks.

[uncle Will in In.]

It sounds right to me. You should get title insurance from them to cover the price you paid for the property. It's not very expensive and protects your investment if someone comes out of the woodwork with a claim to your place. The title company/insurers check the county records before issuing the lifetime policy. They also report what taxes is due on the property at the time of closing. They should pay the taxes that will be due and payable next year, because they owned the property this year which is the period being paid for next year. Without legal assistance there are too many ways to mess up a simple deal.

[rambler]

When I bought last year from a brother & sister, the lawyer had the spouses sign as well, even tho they weren't anywhere on the property. Just so anyone with a potential claim had signed that they knew money changed hands, & I would not be involved in anything down the road.

I'd be wondering too, a divorce or some such could come back at you. I donno. I'm sure it will fly at the courthouse ok, but it does leave a bit of a door ajar.

--->Paul

[fantasymaker]

LOL nope it aint right.
And doing this when you dont know the answer to the question aint right either spend a few bucks on a lawyer.

[kasilofhome]

questions

what makes you believe that the person sell the property "owns" it and can legally sell it.

Can you tell me if there are any liens on the land or moveable buildings on the property?

Can you tell me that the man who is unable to sign IS the husband or could be someone eles.

Hey, any of the people own any taxes?

who market the courners of the lot?

How does the land perk?

any easments?

What is the hurry? is the land going anywhere?

better to do it right than try and fix a surprize later.

[willow_girl]

Yup! You need title insurance and, from the sound of things, a lawyer to draw up the paperwork.

This is NOT a matter in which I would trust the advice of strangers on the Internet ...

[nathan104]

The land is in their name at the courthouse. Ive talked to the apparaisal district and the courthouse. All taxes due including 2007 will be paid in the morning before I give them the money. The land is priced where it will sell fast and there are several people with cash who want it(not just what they said, Ive talked to them). If I do not buy it tomorrow, they have a buyer lined up for monday. No easements anyone is aware of, they own 10 more acres on one side, a county road borders a second, third is bordered by 40 acres which is currently for sale and the realtor selling that says there is no access from this side, and the final side is raw land which has road frontage. The place has an old septic, a well with pump, and electric, and a shell of an old mobile home. Im buying it AS IS, not knowing anything about the condition of anything on the property. If the well and septic are unuseable, Its still worth the price for the raw land. They basially just want to exchange cash for a deed and that is it. I dont think they are trying to pull one over as I know where they live, we are meeting at their bank, taxes are being paid to current tomorrow while Im there, and everything at the courthouse is in their name.



They say they had the deed done with and/or on purpose because the husband is gone a lot. That way, only one would have to sign it when they sold. Basically, it looks like they bought this place a year ago, clearcut it, and are now selling it.

[Kathie]

I worked for a title company that was owned by an attorney. Even if the person selling the property owned it before they got married, then got married and sold the property, they REQUIRED the signature of the spouse. This just took care of any claims on down the road in case of divorce, etc.

[Ken Scharabok]

Perhaps, if the husband has to be out of town, request he prepare a Limited Power of Attorney granting to his spouse the right to sell X property with ____ days and have him notairize it. Then make it part of the sales package.

Example:

I, _________________________________, hereby grant to my spouse, ___________________________, Limited Power of Attorney to a complete sales transaction for X acres of land, known is (street address) and identified as parcel #____________ in the XSYK County tax records. This Limited Power of Attorney is valid until ________________ (date).


_____________________________
(Signature)

______________________________
(Name - print)

______________________________
Date

(Notary will add their stamps and signiture.)

Locally if you have an account with a bank they will notarize for free.

Another option may be for him to sign a Quick Claim Deed.

When we closed on one farm here only the wife came in to sign.

Last piece of property the owner has progressive Alzheimers. Attorney had daughter, who has his Power of Attorney, also sign out of his presence.

Personally I don't purchase property without title insurance.

[kasilofhome]

Does your state have homestead rights.

Dh name was not a dh and I owned my house but when I went to sell He had to sign away his rights to live there.

[Bearfootfarm]

In NC , even if only ONE spouse is on the deed , then BOTH have to sign any transfers. You should also check with the County to see if there are any zoning issues that have to be taken care of. We are in the process of buying 4 more acres and its taken over a year so far to get all the "approvals" and requirements met. Also in some states a lawyer is REQUIRED for any real estate transaction

[Ken Scharabok]

Perhaps, to be on the safe side, delay closing until both wife and husband can be there.

Added: Are you sure they are legally married? Only about eight states will recognize a common law marriage as official (but I believe other states will honor it). I have local friends who lived together for 21 years before going before a County Executive (in TN, sort of a county mayor) to be officially married. In TN the relationship for the first 21 years wouldn't have counted as far as spoucal rights. For example, one could not have filed for divorce or necessarily share in community property in an estate settlement. I suspect they eventually did get married more for the latter.

Say it was a gay/lesbian marriage from MA. TN also would not recognize it as valid.

[texican]

Hi, I'm in Panola County, just a little ways away from ya'll.....

On the land that I've bought and sold, lawyers had to draw up the paperwork. ~100 to 150$ for the paperwork to be legal. One of our neighbors tried to do the same thing ya'll are doing... the county clerk 'accepted' the paperwork, and it's 'on file'..... however, the district attorney, when a case came up that involved the property, said the 'paperwork' they had on file, was equivalent to toilet paper... and according to law, was still owned by the former owners.

How much is the land? I'd assume a couple thousand/acre? So you're out at least 5K, maybe 10K? Personally, I'd carry the deed description to a land title company, pay the couple hundred they'd ask, and have piece of mind. You don't want children, grandchildren, great cousins, former owners five generations back current relatives coming out of the woodwork, once you improve the property, and demand you leave. One of my uncles bought some land next to his TWICE! Sixty something heirs wanted their percentage of 20 acres...and they all claimed personal attachments, and wanted a fortune... a national civil rights group even got involved, and wanted their share of the pie... after all the land went through the court system, it was put on sale at the county courthouse steps... court said if the civil rights group wanted to buy it, they could! Uncle paid twice what everyone else bid... of course, half the money came back to him, as he was the 'current owner'... Land is a tricky sticky business.... title insurance can be worth it's weight in gold...

I bought some land back in the 90's... I researched every owner back to the Caddo Indians, and went over every deed transfer, to the current owners (also checked on any liens, r.o.w.'s, etc). After finding out everything was cool, I bought it.

I'm not certain about the ramifications of paying cash for land. If you have a friend in the banking or tax industry (your tax preparer), you might ask them... you might come out ahead taking a short term mortgage, paying the cash to the bank, and being able to deduct the mortgage interest off your taxes.... unless you don't pay any (would be nice! wouldn't it?)....

Of course, I paid cash...

[SteveD(TX)]

A title search and lawyer is the best money you'll ever spend when buying ANY real estate. Not doing so is like buying a nice new home then not insuring it. Give him an earnest money contract to tie it up until you can get this done.

[Wildwood Flower]

Originally Posted by SteveD(TX)

A title search and lawyer is the best money you'll ever spend when buying ANY real estate. Not doing so is like buying a nice new home then not insuring it. Give him an earnest money contract to tie it up until you can get this done.

I agree--give them some earnest money==to show your serious intent. Along with the earnest money, make the sale contingent upon a clear title.

You can just go to a title co. and they can do it for a nominal fee. You don't really have to have a lawyer.

NEVER buy property without title insurance. It takes a few days, and with your earnest money--you will save both yourself and the sellers a whole lot of potential heartache.

"TRUST EVERYBODY...but make sure the cards are cut."

Land transactions should always be carried out with the utmost of care. Most people understand this perfectly.

If they are saying "AS IS"...what does that mean? If it means the condition of the property, fine. But the condition of the title must be clear.

PEOPLE SAY all kinds of things....GET IT IN WRITING!

[quietstar]

After 38 years dealing with title transfer sales of Texas Real Estate, I've learned of more ways land title can clouded and fouled up than you can imagine. Assuming the Sellers are as represented, it appears to me you will be receiving the half interest in the property the wife owns. The husband's half interest will remain with him if he signs nothing recordable that conveys his interest to you or names his wife to act for him.

Offer to sign an earnest money contract and take a copy with your check to a local title co. and pay for title insurance. If the Sellers want to draft the Warranty deed, that's fine as long as your title co. accepts it as legal and proper.

Just my experienced gut feeling, but the whole set up sounds like the sucker's rush to me. I dearly love to pick up a nice little tract at a good price. However, under the circumstances you outline, I would not touch it without a title policy and lawyer oversight. I wish you good judgment as luck has nothing to do with it! Glen

[fantasymaker]

whats the big deal about monday?
heck you can do the paper on sunday if ya need but get them both a a title serch and a lawyer!

[Hillbillybob]

I know things are different in each state so I would go to a Lawyer to get the papers filled out.

It's real simple spend a little money now or spend a whole lot of money later.

Also how do you know the property has a clear deed? Have you had a title search done on the property to make sure no leans are on the property?

In this State both husband and wife both haft to sign the deed as long as both are alive.

Hillbillybob

[Shadow]

Years ago I was offered a great house great neighborhood really good price. The widow that had lived in the house for over 50 years was selling it. Told my attorney to check out the title and get me title insurance. He said I lived two houses down all my life, they have lived there all my life no need, I insisted and he called backtwo days later and said they do not have clear title. The bank that had sold them the house did not have clear title as they had taken it back but not forclosed on it so did not have the right to sell it. Cost the bank severalthousand dollars to get it straight. Took 8 months. We have since sold tyhe property, made good money on it and we had no problem selling but if the problem caused 50 year ago had showed up and it would have we could have had a complete and total fubar. If they do not want to do it right walk away. If the lady I bought this one form had not wanted to do it right I would have walked away withj a smile on my face.

[nathan104]

Well, I lost the property. I called a couple of real estate lawyers and they all said that even if it says and/or, both need to sign because Texas is a community property state. SO, told them that and they said that they called their bank and being as the employees know them very well, that the notary would call the husband on the phone to verify he signed it and then notarize both signatures. I was fine with that. As long as it was signed by both and both were notarized.

I drove two hours there today and then the bank tells them that no, that will not do that. The seller (wife) insisted both were not needed and got very upset with me. Even the notary at the bank told here she talked to the title company and they said they would not process with only one signature. She got more upset and proceeded to tell me how they have 23 properties and have doen it with one signature selling them many times in the past. If I wanted the place, I was to hand over the money, only she would sign it, and that was it. SO, I said no thanks and drove the two hours home.

The lawyer told me that the courthouse would file the deed, but if anything ever came up, I would not be the legal owners because it would not be legal without both of their signatures. So, if I decided to sell it in the future, a loan could not be had on the place and title insurance could not be issued because the title was not clear.

I hate that I wasted 4 hours driving and $30 in gas but, thats a lesson learned.

Thanks to everyone for all the help.