What would you do? (property infringement)

[WeaverRose]

OK, we don't want to be the bad guys, but our neighbor on one side happens to be a church. The church I grew up in, but we don't attend there. They have carved a driveway onto our property through the grass linking up to our lane ( we own 50 ft. on either side of the drive). At a pizza place this past summer one of the members said they were going to come talk to us about connecting a drive to our lane so people wouldn't have to turn around to leave the smaller section of the cemetary, and we said it sounded possible, but nothing more was said. No one ever came to see us about it, yesterday we see that a driveway was cut into the property we own, complete with rock surfacing, through our grass and sod.
My husband is very diplomatic, and says he'll call the council president to see what the church was thinking by doing this without any permission, survey, request for easement, etc. Knowing him, he'll probably say well, go ahead and use it since it's already there. But I worry about liability, and that it will cost us to put up a gate and sign so people won't come on down our driveway to the house, etc.
So am asking for input from the collective wisdom represented here.
My mom, a lifelong member of the same church, was shocked and remarked that it was clearly illegal, as well as just not good manners to carve a driveway into someone else's property without permission. What say you?
We want to keep on good terms, but ...?

[Gercarson]

I say your mother is correct - on all counts. This is clearly illegal and if your husband goes ahead and agrees with this - make sure you know the legal ramifications of ceding your land to this church. Apparently you are the one who wants to be a "good neighbor" - the church doesn't give a rat's behind.

[ihedrick]

I'm not up on all legal stuff, but I thought an easement had to be recorded on the deed for the property. That covers you, the church, and whomever may buy/inherit your property in the future. Let the church know you want to clear this with a lawyer so everyone is covered; and you would not necessarily come across as the bad guy. The lawyer would be educating both parties.

[tamsam]

I say if you wish to give your property away then give. At this point, if it were me, since they did it without your permission they they would remove the drive and restore my sod and grass and what ever else they tore up. The church takes this once and tomorrow they may just take more of your property to enlarge their parking or grave yard. Hope you get it worked out. Sam

[copperkid3]

What would I do??? Is that the question? Or......are you actually asking what would I "advise" you to do? Either way, you and your husband need to take a stand and do so soon. The church has clearly violated the law on this matter......whether they "planned" on coming to talk to about it sometime....is now moot......the actions taken by "whoever" are adverse and hostile and given enough time, will become PERMANENT. Perhaps someone "over there" already knows that and is counting on you to "do nothing"......in which case, the church wins. Personally, I would go over and advise them that there is NOW a BIG PROBLEM......that you had hoped that it could be worked out BEFORE they actually went to the time/expense of putting in the permanent roadwork......but that now there is no other option than to have them clean up their mess in its entirety and restore to the pristine grass lawn it was before + reasonable expenses for the wear & tear already imposed to your property. Either that, or be prepared to come up with a figure that you can live with if the church decides that they need the property more than you do.......and are willing to pay to keep it the way it is.

This attachment says a lot more about what you may need to get started on the right "road" than I ever could......

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/lat06.htm

Included are many of the states in which various laws affecting adverse possession are viewed.......
Let us know the outcome in your particular situation, please....

[SunsetSonata]

Is this a Christian church? What happened to Do Not Steal? What are they teaching their congregation?

I say this should cost them plenty, either in restoring your land, or in selling them that part of your land so they can legally do as they wish. (I recommend the former.)

I hope this is nothing more than a misunderstanding, but regardless, you did not offer them this charity.

[fantasymaker]

Sorry theres no way out of this without looking bad ,no matter what happens its going to be you who welched on a deal with the church.

So how to make the best of it? Talk with the elders and tell them you are surprized that they have gone ahead and done this before haveing the property sureveyed so that you will know exactly where its going in . And your surprized that they had agreed to your fee of $10,000 to do this ,and that you want a gate on the property line so that both you and they can unlock it,You whenever you feel like it and they only when a funeral or other large event will happen in that section of the cemetary..
And that of course you expect them to maintain the entire driveway.

[fantasymaker]

RENT I forgot rent be sure to charge some small sum as rent so that you can shut it off if you want ,preferably paid monthly.

[DenverGirlie]

I would baracade the driveway and then report the church to the sherrif for tresspassing, damaging my property and anything else I could think up.

You made no agreement, you have been paid nothing and have not even been consulted. Then I would sue the pants of the church.

I don't care who they are, they would pay big time. Just because they are a church doesn't excuse bad behavior.


Just becaue I'm a Christain doesn't mean that a church can walk all over my property rights.

[Danaus29]

Gee, not a very Christian attitude. I think I would put up a sign saying, "When did Jesus say it is ok to steal?"

I would be filing damage claims in court, after barricading the drives, new AND the old one!

[wy_white_wolf]

So, If I move in on the other side of your property can I steal a chunk of your property for my use!

Make them restore it or buy it.

Doing it without your permission shows they don't care about staying on good terms.

[Michael Kawalek]

Hello Rose
To me this sounds like someone on the design committee of the church dropped the ball and didn't tell anyone. With the statement ....

"At a pizza place this past summer one of the members said they were going to come talk to us about connecting a drive to our lane so people wouldn't have to turn around to leave the smaller section of the cemetary, and we said it sounded possible, but nothing more was said. "

Now this suggests to me that someone was "supposed" to get your permission to do this but did not. When pressed for time this person might have said "Yes, I talked to them and they said it was allright". Maybe the church staff itself is not to blame, but this single member. This mistake has broader implications that just a mistake that you can say "don't worry about it". Some years in the future, the property might be sold, and that easement is a serious complication that MUST be documented for the buyer. You will be held legally responsible for this.

At this point, I would suggest you make an appointment with the pastor of this church and point out the problem to him/her. Make it clear that you HAVE to straighten this out if you ever want to sell or will the property and that you are willing to work with them to come up with an ammenable solution.
Michael

[WeaverRose]

Thanks to all for really good advice, I appreciate your help and knowledge. The church currently is without a pastor, so only the council would be directing things. I hadn't thought about the complications if we would sell, that also is a detriment to a sale for sure. Some of you have great ideas! Will keep you posted after we contact the council president, I've been warned this person is not easy to deal with, whatever that means. Hoping for a peaceful resolution.. if that's possible. Again, thanks for your input, it means a lot.

[LisaInN.Idaho]

I would either grant permission or take legal steps to stop them from using your property. You do stand to lose part of your land thru adverse possesion if they continue to use it openly and without your permission. It would take a while but why let them get started?

[fantasymaker]

Originally Posted by WeaverRose

Will keep you posted after we contact the council president, I've been warned this person is not easy to deal with, .

Usually people who are caught way out in the wrong will be very easy to deal with. Just tell him what you want and I bet it happens!

[farminghandyman]

A fence down the property line would work well, even a few property marking posts, would work as well.

I bet they come and talk then.
and I have been a member on our local church board.

[pheasantplucker]

Tell em you want the biggest collection plate that gets taken in each Sunday.

[clovis]

I would walk softly, but carry a HUGE stick.

You need to talk to the church IMMEDIATELY, and get something worked out. This means a legal document or evicting them from your property.

One possibility is that someone with the money or the equipment felt lead to donate their time and services in the form of a new driveway, without talking to anyone at the church.

I would do be gentle with my words, but strong with my deeds if they look for a fight or are reluctant to work with you. I would start with barricading the drive on both ends while talking to an attorney.

No sense making the lawyers rich if you don't have to (why sue, if you don't have to?) but I would make sure I had a quality agreement in place.

If they choose to be difficult and you don't do anything, the next thing you know they will be digging new graves in your front yard and building a softball field for the kids in your backyard.

You don't want to lose this land, and even more land because you didn't do anything about it. Can't remember what this is called, but it is when someone assumes use of your property/land, and because they have maintained it for so long, they can take ownership of it. (This happened to a homeowner in our town when the two neighbors fenced in a big part of his back yard, and he did nothing for years.)

Clove

[quietstar]

Rose..My concern would be the negative effect this rude taking will have on the value of your property. Several times my company has marketed property adjoining graveyards and alway find some percentage of lookers that won't consider it for "spooky" reasons. Nevertheless, the property has always sold to some couple that agrees with me.."you can't find quieter neighbors"..
For your property value, I wouldn't make the graveyard connection with my property more glaring than it has to be. Their inconsiderate actions have provided your husband good reason to block their attempt to use your property. Church people can be high handed. Momma is right...Glen

[susieM]

Put up a fence. You are being screwed.