Building a remote cabin.

Folks,
I am past the dream phase of building a semi-remote (snowmachine, boat access) cabin. I would appreciate your pictures, ideas, lessons learned and/or anything else that you would share. There are many questions:

Foundation on tundra. I was told to keep frozen thing frozen and warm things warm. Pilings which were supposed to be "the thing" to do a few years ago can "frost jack" or so i heard. I was told to insulate the ground with blueboard and timbers then post and beam it from there. Are gluelams or steel I-beams better or? How high off the ground? Under flooring materials?

Floor. BCI's or dimensional lumber. 4X8 sheets of T&G OSB?

Size. I want to be able to have 2 couples and each have a decent sleeping area with some privacy. I am thinking 24X24 or 20 X 28 with a loft.

Siding. I saw a gorgeous cabin with (believe it or not) stucco. I prefer low maintenance as I prefer to enjoy the outdoors instead of painting etc.... Would stucco be a better bear deterrant? Can it be made to look a bit "rustic"? What about metal?

Bear deterrants? What building precautions can I take to prevent entrusion? It will be off grid with a battery system. I can use electric fence. Should I worry about window size/location? There are blacks in the area and browns from time to time.

Any other thoughts on power, skeeters, hot water, privy, roofing or any other pertinent thoughs would be appreciated.

Thanks!
lonelytree

[just_sawing]

Number one take what I am going to say as a grain of salt. I live in the south but study structures and building.
Build a pier foundation. This can be leveled at time if needed and others are too permanent.
Build a double floor. 2 by 6 with a bottom sheeting filled with sawdust the sealing sheet 2 by 6 with regular insulation and pumbing wiring or what ever. This willl seal better.
Build walls post and beam with studding in between. This make the load bearing stronger.
Build a loft for sleeping and storage. Only inside doors are if you have indoor plumbing. you can't afford the heat trapping of inside walls. Build wimdows 12 inches wide. If you have wider ones insert bar to make openning. People can squezze through a 12" slot in an emergancy but a bear can't unless it is a cub.
Walls need to be wood on the out side. Up north no termites its cheapper and if you saw your own you can seal in layers.
It inside part of the out side wall cover in 10 layers of news paper. them with boards on the inside. It will last for 50 years and keep drafts out. The insulat inside well.
Bottom line a tight cabin can be heated better than a well insulated drafty one.

[bubbahead]

I have no answers for you, but share your dream. I will be watching this thread closely. Good luck and congrats for making it past the dreaming stage...lol.

[fantasymaker]

When you say tundra do you mean permafrost?
How are you transporting materials to the site? By the snow machine /boat? how far from the boat landing to the building site ? over what terrain?
The best bear deterant is to cook outside and keep food outside. You have to train an animal to respect an eliectric fence and I doubt you have time to train your bears.
Privacy is a personal thing LOL some couples would be fine in a 8X* witha sheet between them others need a state or two.
Privey , if you can get an old port-a-pot they are GREAT!

[northgirl]

Well for starters I would recomend that unless you are building on rock that you seriously consider a foundation that you are able to jack up when needed. As ground freezes and thaws the home shifts and you will have doors that don't open ect. I have to jack my place every few years due to shifting. My house is on concrete but there are i beam supports running across that, then wood blocks are from the ground up to the beams so I can jack the beam and add more blocks when sinking occurs. A 24x24 place is what I have but for a cabin I would reccomend the 20x28. As for the outside around your cabin..invest in insulated skirting to keep the wind from blowing under the cabin and to keep large animals out. If you decide on any plumbing that step is CRUCIAL. Also the stucco thing, hasn't worked to good in this climate cuz with the shifting there are many cracks that have to be fixed regularly. If you want rustic choose rough lumber for your exterior, it holds up good and doesn't require much upkeep. Another reccomendation is for roofing if you have a choice pick tin because it holds a good snow load and ice slides off it well. I have shingles and the ice often rips it off as well as the high winds get under the flaps and tear them. Well I have a million ideas so if you need more just post what concerns you have and I may be able to help. GOOD LUCK :baby04:

[Terri]

I have heard of newspaper insulation, but, isn't it a fire hazard?

[The Paw]

Originally Posted by just_sawing

Number one take what I am going to say as a grain of salt. I live in the south but study structures and building.
Build a pier foundation. This can be leveled at time if needed and others are too permanent.
Build a double floor. 2 by 6 with a bottom sheeting filled with sawdust the sealing sheet 2 by 6 with regular insulation and pumbing wiring or what ever. This willl seal better.
Build walls post and beam with studding in between. This make the load bearing stronger.
Build a loft for sleeping and storage. Only inside doors are if you have indoor plumbing. you can't afford the heat trapping of inside walls. Build wimdows 12 inches wide. If you have wider ones insert bar to make openning. People can squezze through a 12" slot in an emergancy but a bear can't unless it is a cub.
Walls need to be wood on the out side. Up north no termites its cheapper and if you saw your own you can seal in layers.
It inside part of the out side wall cover in 10 layers of news paper. them with boards on the inside. It will last for 50 years and keep drafts out. The insulat inside well.
Bottom line a tight cabin can be heated better than a well insulated drafty one.

I would agree with a lot of this except:
-I would use cellulose insulation instead of sawdust in the floor.
-I would not use a loft design for sleeping unless I was younger than 40.
-A roll of building wrap is not very expensive, and it is more effective and less flammable than 10 layers of newspaper.

also, I have seen some very dark grey stucco houses that would look good blending into the bush. On the other hand, I would not want to try to haul stucco materials and equipment in by boat or snow machine...

Originally Posted by fantasymaker

When you say tundra do you mean permafrost?
How are you transporting materials to the site? By the snow machine /boat? how far from the boat landing to the building site ? over what terrain?
The best bear deterant is to cook outside and keep food outside. You have to train an animal to respect an eliectric fence and I doubt you have time to train your bears.
Privacy is a personal thing LOL some couples would be fine in a 8X* witha sheet between them others need a state or two.
Privey , if you can get an old port-a-pot they are GREAT!

FM -
Yes, permafrost. The pilings that they used in the 70's and 80's are frost jacking. They are also expensive. Cement is not an option. Here is my plan.



2.3 miles from the boat dock VIA water. Almost 3 by land "IF" it is possible. I have not tried by ATV.

The current plan is to take it in over the ice in March. Anything else will have to be barged in. I may try to use my boat dock as a barge. I heard that they tend to nose down when pulled, but it is only 2 miles. 1/2 hour at 5 MPH is not unreasonable. I may also have a 20 foot jon to use.

The loft will be 16X20 with a regular set of stairs. The pitch will put the outer walls at around 35".

I need to learn more about the stucco process. I like metal or stucco due to fire danger. If that area burns it will flash through as there is not alot of combustables. There is a whole beach full of sand out front.

Newspaper would take too long. I plan to use a TYVEK style product or possibly 15 pound felt in a pinch.

Here is a comparable:





The roof is too steep.

Thanks for all the inputs! Questions are appreciated also.

[Bencooper21]

Originally Posted by lonelytree

FM -
Yes, permafrost. The pilings that they used in the 70's and 80's are frost jacking. They are also expensive. Cement is not an option. Here is my plan.

2.3 miles from the boat dock VIA water. Almost 3 by land "IF" it is possible. I have not tried by ATV.

The current plan is to take it in over the ice in March. Anything else will have to be barged in. I may try to use my boat dock as a barge. I heard that they tend to nose down when pulled, but it is only 2 miles. 1/2 hour at 5 MPH is not unreasonable. I may also have a 20 foot jon to use.

The loft will be 16X20 with a regular set of stairs. The pitch will put the outer walls at around 35".

I need to learn more about the stucco process. I like metal or stucco due to fire danger. If that area burns it will flash through as there is not alot of combustables. There is a whole beach full of sand out front.

Newspaper would take too long. I plan to use a TYVEK style product or possibly 15 pound felt in a pinch.

Thanks for all the inputs! Questions are appreciated also.

Wow! That is probably as remote as you can get. How're you planning on heating up the place?

Originally Posted by Bencooper21

Wow! That is probably as remote as you can get. How're you planning on heating up the place?

Actually it is not very remote by Alaska standards. It is 3-4 hour drive then a few minutes by boat. There are alot of cabins in the area. Most are farther from the launch than mine. Some are an hour boat ride from the launch.

The fishing is poor:



No wildlife to be found:





I plan to put in a woodstove. I will have to haul wood in. The trees up there are very stunted. After a conversation with a fellow cabin builder tonight I will also put in a ceiling fan or 2. He can heat his cabin up in less than an hour with his fan running. Thats starting from 10 below to 80 degrees.
I also have a little propane jet heater if needed.

[longrider]

These are some of the books that I used to plan my humble abode. I learned a lot from the website www.frontierfreedom.com and the alaska gold website. Because I live here in Alabama the cabin I am building is very different from the one I am planning for Alaska. However the amenities are much the same and many are a dry-run for going north. Having two places is a plus while I still have family down here.

I am sure there are others and some perhaps more informative. But given my own investigations and the personal testimonies you read here and elsewhere you should be well equiped.



Building the Alaskan Log Home:T. Walker essential
From log to log House: Hakansson essential
How to Build your Dream Cabin: W. Fears
Complete Guide to Building Log Homes: M. Burch
The Log Cabin: Mcdougal
Log Cabin Classics: Obomswain
Cabins: D. Stiles
Creative Country Construction: R. Inwood

The Foxfire Series: (13bks)
American Ingenuity Classics: [(homestead)16bks] Back40Books.com
The Encyclopedia of Country Living: Carla Emery
Basic Country Skills: Storey's
Back to Basics: Reader Digest Pubs.

Five Acres and Independence: Kains
The Good Life: Nearing
The Self Relient Homestead
The Have More Plan: Ed Robinson
How to Live on Almost Nothing and Have Plenty: Chadwick
How to Survive Without a Salary

The Cottage Water System: M. Burns
The Residential HydroPower Book: K. Ritter
Practical Water Power

The Battery for Your PV Home
The Backwoods Solar Electric System HB/Catalog: www.backwoodssolar.com
Small Engine Care & Repair: Briggs & Stratton

Food Storage for the Clueless
Putting Food By: Green, Hertzberg, Vaughn
Canning, Freezing, Curing, & Smoking Meat, Fish & Game: W. Eastman
Balls Bluebook of Preserving

The Alaska Gardening Guide: A. Roberts
Plant Propagation: Toogood
100 Greatest Garden Ideas: J. Cox
The Vegetable Gardeners Bible: Smith
Backyard Market Gardening

Backyard Lifestock: S. Thomas
Wildgame Cookery: C. Vance

One Man's Wilderness: Sam Keith (Dick Proenneke)
Arctic Homestead: Norma Cobb
Indian Creek Chronicals
Final Frontiersman
Island Within: Ronelson
Two in the Far North
The Stars, The Moon, The Fire: John Haines
Arctic Daughter: J. Aspen
Wilderness Mother: D. Kanatski

The Lehman Store www.lehmans.com
Ben Meadow's www.benmeadows.com
Baileys www.baileys-online.com
Nasco www.enasco.com/farmandranch
Filsons www.filson.com
Cabelas www.cabelas.com
Brigade Quartermasters www.actiongear.com
Lodge Ironware www.lodgemfg.com

[John Haylow]

I thought if did something like you are doing that it would be handy to have small insulated building that could be heated and used as a shop to work on a bike or sled in the cold weather. I would keep some emergency supplies stored there. It could save you if you ever had a fire in your main building.

Sounds like fun.
John

[fantasymaker]

I think what you want is a slab foundation, not a pier. what you are sorta doing is building a barge to float on top of the ice. Last I saw was Foam insulation over a grubed out area then a layer of treated plywood and then 2 by floor joists and fairly normal construction from there.
If you are going with the pier idea you might get away with it on a small place but Id forget the layer of crushed rock and drive steel rods as deep in the soil there as I could to help wick the cold up. then Id be carefull to shade as much of the area as possable.

longrider - Where are you building in Alaska? I noticed alot of log information in your post. There are many log outfits now. I helped a buddy build one 2 years ago. Too many complications when trying to build the same thing remote with what I have to work with. The biggest issue is that I can't get a crane/lift in and out.

JH - I am thinking about a 8X12 workshop. Heated only by a propane torpedo heater. We can store tools and materials in it while the main cabin is being built.

FM - Most people are criss crossing lumber all the way to the beam. Everything from RR ties to landscape timbers. The crushed rock will allow water to run off. I was told to NOT drive anything into the ground. I agree with the insulating the ground. After the piers are in I would roll the tundra back against the piers. I almost want to put in a layer of cement blocks because of this.

[Shinsan]

Longrider, Posting that list of books and websites was a great idea. (Some of those books are available in Australia, and would be good additions to my library.)
Having read yours, I'm going to make up a list of the books that I already have, or are available locally, that I can recommend to people who are interested in our efforts to become self-sufficient. (See my signature line.)
Thank you very much.
Shin.

[Savrens]

Six years ago I was working at a modular building factory.

On one production run we started with floor units measuring 14" X 60" framed with 2 X 10 floor joists. Skinned with plywood. Flipped the floor (with cranes). Blew in fiberglass insulation. Skinned the top with 3/4" plywood.
Then we flipped the floor again and framed a 2 X 2 framework @ 2' centers. Then insulated with 1 1/2" Roxul insulation.

I couldn't fathom why the floor was insulated better than the walls and probably better than the ceiling.

Then I learned where the units were being shipped to. It was a school for Siberia. Then I understood. It was critical to keep the heat from going down and melting the permafrost.

A later build was for an Army training base in Hawaii. Quite a different insulation process.

[longrider]

Originally Posted by lonelytree

longrider - Where are you building in Alaska? I noticed alot of log information in your post. There are many log outfits now. I helped a buddy build one 2 years ago. Too many complications when trying to build the same thing remote with what I have to work with. The biggest issue is that I can't get a crane/lift in and out.

My goal is to be remote. As a pilot I hope to find a stretch of land that has a clearing to land a plane that is also near a large pond or lake. I am moving towards a permenant home that will allow me to live nearly self sufficient.

The home I want is a log home- always wanted one. The size will be something near 20x30 but will be built in a + or cross layout. So it will essentially be quite large but because my wood stove (potbelly #20) will be located in the center it will heat the area well so I have room to live fairly comfortable.

I have a buddy that will help me build and we have used the building process on a cabin here. By using set vertical poles in opposite corners we can use pulleys and come-a-longs to move the highest timbers up. Butt and Pass method will likely be the method for stacking.

I have learned most of this from two other forums which are especially tuned in to Alaskas special problems. I have a lot to learn yet.

[longrider]

Originally Posted by Shinsan

Longrider, Posting that list of books and websites was a great idea. (Some of those books are available in Australia, and would be good additions to my library.)
Having read yours, I'm going to make up a list of the books that I already have, or are available locally, that I can recommend to people who are interested in our efforts to become self-sufficient. (See my signature line.)
Thank you very much.
Shin.

amazon.com is the way to go- I get everything half off or better there.

[Freeholder]

Well, let's see what I can add to this conversation, having spent a good chunk of my life living in bush cabins in Alaska!

I think that the 20' X 28' cabin will be easier to lay out. Put your wood stove as close to the center of the house as possible (do a masonry stove if you can possibly manage it -- you won't have to cut nearly as much wood). My suggestion would be to have a full upstairs, rather than a loft. The high open ceiling is where all your heat will go in the winter, leaving the floor cold. In cold climates, low ceilings are much better, unless you have electricity for a ceiling fan to push the heat back down. In a climate where you are going to be cooped up indoors a lot in the winter, you want all the indoor space you can squeeze out of your building materials.

Definitely metal roofing. Don't make your roof too steep -- snow will slide off a metal roof even at a fairly low slope, and it will be safer for whoever is working up there. (Actually my first choice of roof is sod, but you'd need a heavier roof structure to support it.)

Stucco siding looks nice -- for a while. Then it starts needing work. And if your house is going to be on permafrost, you'd better allow for some wracking. Stucco would just crack.

If you use board siding, don't paint it. Use a stain. It will look nice for many many years, where you'd have to be repainting every few years if you used paint. (Actually, I would just let the board siding weather and not even stain it.)

Some years back I read an article, probably in TMEN, about a small house in Alaska -- seems like it was out towards Dillingham, but I'm not sure. They basically built the floor, walls, and roof framing as a unit. Each floor joist connected to the wall studs above it, and the wall studs were connected to the roof truss above. It was like a series of whole-house trusses. And they sheathed the whole thing with plywood. It made the house a single unit which wasn't going to wrack no matter what happened to it. It was probably the ideal design for building on permafrost....

Skeeters -- screens on your windows (if they open) and definitely the doors. Make sure all other openings/holes are filled. Have spare screens stashed in case one gets a hole in it somehow.

Bears -- it sounds like your house is going to be up off the ground a bit. Have your windows a little higher than normal, and restrict access to any porches (railings and gates?). Keep a bear gun handy (.30-06 minimum). Make sure everyone there knows how to use the bear gun. My mother had to shoot a bear that was trying to get in our cabin when I was six (and she was six months pregnant with my twin sisters). She shot from in the house, two holes in the living room window as the bear stood up against it -- it had already been around the cabin twice, scratching at the doors and looking in the windows. Mom was baking rhubarb pies, and it was a bad year for berries, so the bears were hungry. My aunt, who lives at Northway, has shot several bears in her yard. A good dog is pretty much a must -- they won't keep the bears away, but they will let you know when one is nearby.

Privy -- make the hole as deep as you can (what's the water table there?). Make the outhouse weather tight -- 'going' on a seat that has been dusted with snow is, um, chilly! Keep lime, shredded moss, sawdust, or peat in a bucket and dump a scoop (a couple of cups if using organic material, a cup if using lime) in the hole after each use. Run a large (12"), screened, vent stack from the pit up through the roof. Put a screen door on. Whitewash the inside regularly. Keep styrofoam board on hand and use that for a toilet seat in the winter (some people take the toilet seat in the house and take it back out to the privy at each use -- sitting on a seat that is at minus fifty degrees -- with your bare skin -- is an interesting experience! I've also heard of fur-lined ones, but that may be a bush legend, as it would be hard to keep clean.). Put a window in your privy, preferably facing south. In the summer you can keep wet wipes out there, but in winter you'll have to clean up in the house.

If you can get a good quality wood cookstove with a water jacket or some other system for heating water (there are a couple of possibilities), that will take care of your cooking, hot water, and part of your heating (and there's nothing like having a wood cook stove in the kitchen!). Wood cook stoves (and the masonry stove I mentioned above) run well on small stuff, an advantage since it sounds like that's mostly what you'll have.

Are you going to put in a well? If not, where will you be getting your water? If you ARE putting in a well, drill that before you build the house -- put it under the house and insulate around the well casing and the pipe up to the house. Then you can have a hand pump indoors and not have to worry about your water freezing up. Just use short lengths of pipe in the well, or flexible black pvc, so when you need to pull it for some reason you won't have to take your roof off in order to do it!

If you won't have a well (and even if you do have one, if you'll be using a hand pump) you'll need to store some water in the house. We used a 55-gal. drum with a plywood lid, hinged in the middle so we only had to open half of it to get water out, and set right by the front door where it stayed cool (sometimes had ice on the side closest to the wall). Then we put a drum up in the rafters and used a small portable pump to fill it from a drum on the back of the truck -- we were hauling water from my dad's place. If you can put in a hand pump, you should be able to pump right up to a barrel above the kitchen (and put the kitchen and bathroom back-to-back so the plumbing is together -- and keep any plumbing on an inside wall -- it'll freeze in an outside wall). Then you can have water to your taps, at least cold running water. With a big water reservoir on your cook stove, you'll have hot water whenever you need it, too -- all set!

Laundry. That was the biggest problem we had living without electricity or running water with three youngsters. I strongly suggest you plan to have a couple of laundry tubs with a floor drain (your sinks and tub should have drains even if you don't have water from a tap -- it's a lot easier than hauling all the dirty water outside to dump it. Get a couple of scrub boards and a hand-cranked wringer. Put in a log crib in the ground for the gray water -- with a VERY strong top, and the top should be at least four feet underground and insulated, so the contents and the pipes don't freeze. And keep this 'cess pit' well away from your well, if you have one, or from any other water such as lake or creek.)

Wire your house for DC current, and use RV fixtures. You can set up a CD player/radio meant to go inside a car, too (and other things).

Build a cache or some other outbuilding well away from your cabin and keep some gear there in case you lose the cabin to a fire. One key to living in the bush, or even to driving the highways in Alaska is to always be prepared, and have backups for your backups. People who don't follow that advice frequently don't live to regret it.

Put a trap door in the floor, leading down into a box in the ground where you can store stuff that needs to stay cool in the summer, not freeze in the winter (it should be pretty deep). Basically this is an underhouse root cellar. Or, if the permafrost won't let you do that, then build an icehouse, well-insulated (at least a foot of sawdust in the walls). You don't have to cut and haul ice, just open it up when the weather is really cold and dump water on the floor until it's a foot or two deep, then cover it with another deep layer of sawdust. You can keep stuff right down on the ice all summer (we had friends in Tok who did this).

Another thing you can do is build a cool box off the back of the house, about the size of a refrigerator, with a door into the house. It should have a screened top for use in summer (actually, a screened bottom will allow some air circulation). In winter put insulated top and bottom on and it will act as a refrigerator -- or a freezer, depending on how cold it is outside, and how well insulated the box is!

The more you can shelter the external skin of the house from the ambient temperatures, the better. If you can (or add on later) put a wood shed the full length of the north side of the house. Put enclosed (glassed in) porches on both ends, and a greenhouse on the south side.

Put at least one skylight in the south-facing slope of the roof. You'll need insulated doors for these to prevent heat loss in the winter, but they sure do let in a lot of good light. And I've seen them used for starting seedlings for the garden, by hanging the flats of seedlings right up close to the glass. Much better than setting the flats in a window where they'll grow spindly and lean towards the light.

The kitchen should be the biggest room in the house, if you plan to hunt, fish, and garden. Have a big work table in the middle of it -- you can do your sitting there, too. And when power is in short supply it's best to only light one area at a time, so everyone ought to be working/relaxing in close proximity.

You'll need someplace just inside the door for stashing outdoor clothes, etc. And someplace safe just outside the door for things that shouldn't come in where it's warm during the winter, like snowshoes.

Where is your land, anyway?

Kathleen

[Freeholder]

Longrider, two things. First, you are much more likely to find a place to set a float plane down, than you are to find ground suitable for wheeled landings. You might be able to build a landing strip, but finding a natural one is pretty slim chances.

Second, the shape house you describe has an awful lot of exterior surface for the amount of square footage. Exterior surface, at WAY below zero, is not a good thing. You want to minimize it as much as possible. Take it from someone who has had her blankets freeze to the wall while sleeping in them.

The Alaska natives in the Interior built underground, or at least earth-bermed with sod roofs. That is really the best way for that climate, but we tend to want windows in our houses.

Kathleen