Yesterdays Joel Salatin meeting

[cindyc]

I went the the Family Farm Forum yesterday and heard Joel Salatin speak.
Well it was a good meeting. A lot of it was over my head because the audience was mostly farmers who had been doing it a LONG time. He changes his talks according to his audience.
BUT I did learn a lot about how he does grass fed animals, and how he uses animals to cut down his work load.
He moves his animals every day. First the cows go into an area. They poop everywere, making the flies and other bugs come... So the next day the layer chicken tractor comes in. He keeps the bug population on the farm down in this way. The chickens eat the bugs.
When he needs a field to be arerated or bushhogged so it will grow more good grass, he sends in the pigs. They "make a moon scape", and turn under all of the cow manure that is still there so that it composts on the field. The grass grows in rich and green after that without him having to lay down fertilzer or seed.
In that way he has run three different streams of revenue through the same acre and maximized the profits he can make from it.
That was the sort of thing he talked about (the part that wasn't over my head!)
Cindyc.
FYI If you live in his area of VA (lost his card, sorry) and you do grass based agriculture, he is looking for growers to partner with. He has more customers than he can support.

[pixelphotograph]

I have several of his books and his ideas make good sense ecologically and financially.
Glad you got to meet him and see how he does it first hand. Maybe one day I will get up there to his place to do the same.
Thanks Mike

[ebook]

Sounds like it would have been a very good conference to go to. I would love to hear him speak and answer questions from the farmers. What he does seems so down to earth. The interesting thing is that it doesn't seem like he is on the same page of a lot of the other big grazing names so I would be interested to hear what he thinks of the methods of Jim Gerrish, Allan Nation, and the likes....

[Cara]

My husband is very interested after reading Omnivores Dilemma. He's not as agriculturally minded as me, so I was pretty excited to hear it! We have access to about 5 acres of mostly unused pasture, but the problem is the fencing. This is rented and I am just not up for fencing someone else's place.

[cindyc]

Originally Posted by Cara

My husband is very interested after reading Omnivores Dilemma. He's not as agriculturally minded as me, so I was pretty excited to hear it! We have access to about 5 acres of mostly unused pasture, but the problem is the fencing. This is rented and I am just not up for fencing someone else's place.

Joel rents some of his acreage too. And since he is moving his animals around all the time he has a portable electric fencing structure. If there is access to electricity, generator, whatever, you wouldn't really have to fence somebody elses property to do this, but again... a lot of the how went WAY over my head. Hopefully someone else can chime in on that.

Cindyc.

[cindyc]

Originally Posted by ebook

Sounds like it would have been a very good conference to go to. I would love to hear him speak and answer questions from the farmers. What he does seems so down to earth. The interesting thing is that it doesn't seem like he is on the same page of a lot of the other big grazing names so I would be interested to hear what he thinks of the methods of Jim Gerrish, Allan Nation, and the likes....

None of these guys actually came up at the meeting, so I don't know, sorry. They opened the floor to questions, and there were many questions asked and answered, but that was just not one of them.

What I got out of what he DID say that might apply is that farms are basically mini eco-systems, and you have to do what will work in your situation. There is a total picture (he used the metaphor of a pie) that equals a healthy, nutritious, animal at processing time. There are a number of elements that come into play... like genetic phenotype, pasture and grasses, animal maturity (to be mature enough to be marbled the animal has to NATURALLY grow to 3/4 the size of the dame, or be finished in some way artificially which compromises the nutritional content of of the animal.), mineralization... lots of stuff I haven't even begun to understand yet. You have to work out what makes the WHOLE pie in YOUR case... Maybe you can't buy top of the line animals... you have to level that out in other ways in how you graze them that sort of thing. He actually advocates MORE animals on pasture not less, b/c they feed faster, and waste less of the grass, and (if I remember correctly) actually gain weight FASTER... he called it approximating the mob heard feeding instinct I think...
OK. I am going to get this ALL wrong if I try to explain more! I need to do more research... He was basically saying just compensate for your deficits in some way in your own farming situation, I think.
Somebody with more knowlege than me want to chime in?
Cindyc.

[texican]

Did this conference cost anything? Mr. Salatin (if I remember the name correctly, and if I don't, forgive me) makes more money on the talking part of his operation than on the farming part.

And if he can make money talking about doing it, more power to him. Clean fingernails pay more bills than dirty ones.........

[cindyc]

Originally Posted by texican

Did this conference cost anything? Mr. Salatin (if I remember the name correctly, and if I don't, forgive me) makes more money on the talking part of his operation than on the farming part.

And if he can make money talking about doing it, more power to him. Clean fingernails pay more bills than dirty ones.........

The event was paid for by sponsors. Organic valley was one of them b/c they were looking for farmers to recruit for their co-operative. I paid for lunch, to the mennonite community that put on the meeting. That may have been true at one time, but not any more. He runs 500 head of cattle at a time, manages 800 acres, supplies all of the pork for a major chain of restraunts in VA, sells 3000 broilers a year (or at a time, several times a year I don't remember which) at pastured poultry prices (and can't keep up with the demand), and sells (I can't remember the number but it was a LOT) numbers of dozens of free range eggs at $3.00 a dozen, sells lumber... He has recently had to hire a delivery driver at $40,000 a year and is looking for a secretary. His talks and books are considered by him to be another way in which he has diversified the income of his farm.

Times are changing.
Cindyc.

[michiganfarmer]

Originally Posted by cindyc

. He actually advocates MORE animals on pasture not less, b/c they feed faster, and waste less of the grass, and (if I remember correctly) actually gain weight FASTER... he called it approximating the mob heard feeding instinct I think...
OK. I am going to get this ALL wrong if I try to explain more! I need to do more research... He was basically saying just compensate for your deficits in some way in your own farming situation, I think.
Somebody with more knowlege than me want to chime in?
Cindyc.

this sounds like the intensive grazing that Michigan dairy farmers have been experimenting with for the last 10 years


Muy concern is when he says to run pigs on the land and they will till the land, and there is no need to re seed. I dont know how tha towul dwork. ANy time I work some ground, and leave it, it ends up filling with weeds. I dont know how Joe figures that letting pigs work up the ground will bring grass on.

[georgec]

Originally Posted by michiganfarmer

this sounds like the intensive grazing that Michigan dairy farmers have been experimenting with for the last 10 years


Muy concern is when he says to run pigs on the land and they will till the land, and there is no need to re seed. I dont know how tha towul dwork. ANy time I work some ground, and leave it, it ends up filling with weeds. I dont know how Joe figures that letting pigs work up the ground will bring grass on.

I think you feed seed to the cattle, it comes out mostly undigested, then the pigs work it into the ground.

[michiganfarmer]

Originally Posted by georgec

I think you feed seed to the cattle, it comes out mostly undigested, then the pigs work it into the ground.

I gotcha

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Joel is a madman, as far as work ethic goes. He would have made a good executive of any company. I think all of his ideas are very sound. However, I do believe much of his success is attributable to fact that he inherited a great deal of land. A bunch of free capital sure does make any enterprise easier! And it is pretty interesting how things become what they are, he started out with a family farm, but before long you need to hire a driver, a secretary, someone to move fences, and oh yeah a bunch of young interns to help out for free, and before long, you have a corporate farm, and you don't get to do any farming at all, you are just managing everyone else. I'm not bashing Salatin, I just pointing out that there is a whole lot (besides good old fashioned farmwork) going into what makes him successful, and what he has is by no means "the simple life" that I think many homesteaders desire.

[ebook]

Matthew ... I agree with most everything you say. I agree that Joel may not have gotten to where he is today if he didn't have 500 some acres or whatever it is from his family. It does make it easier to quit your job and just throw yourself at it!

As far as what Polyface has become here is my take. Yes, it does seem to be becoming rather large and almost beginning to look like a "corperate family farm". But, I think of Joel decided to quit writing and speaking it wouldn't take as much help. He seems to have a passion to share what he believes will work and so he has decided to put a ton of effort into that. I guess he could have just kept it small and kept the success to himself, but I like being able to read about it and see him speak. All that being said, boy do I wish I had the gift of writing, because I think that is where the money is. Just do a little farming and a lot of writing about being a farmer ... people eat the stuff up because of their dreams, nostalgia, or whatever!

Originally Posted by Matthew Lindsay

Joel is a madman, as far as work ethic goes. He would have made a good executive of any company. I think all of his ideas are very sound. However, I do believe much of his success is attributable to fact that he inherited a great deal of land. A bunch of free capital sure does make any enterprise easier! And it is pretty interesting how things become what they are, he started out with a family farm, but before long you need to hire a driver, a secretary, someone to move fences, and oh yeah a bunch of young interns to help out for free, and before long, you have a corporate farm, and you don't get to do any farming at all, you are just managing everyone else. I'm not bashing Salatin, I just pointing out that there is a whole lot (besides good old fashioned farmwork) going into what makes him successful, and what he has is by no means "the simple life" that I think many homesteaders desire.

[fishhead]

I would think hogs would leave the land full of holes and humps like gopher mounds do to a hay field.

I try to integrate my fish production through polyculturing compatible fish species and sizes. It becomes very labor intensive at harvest time but I do believe it helps production and in some ways helps pond management. The difference between a pond with suckers and one without can be felt by walking through the pond and when it comes to pulling the seine the difference is huge. A pond without suckers produces so much chironomid (midge larvae) casings that the seine gathers it by the ton. A pond with suckers can almost be seined with one hand.

I'm experimenting with geese and muscovey ducks but I'm beginning to have my doubts. They do a great job at mowing but they also yank the grass roots out of the dikes at the waterline leading to a lot of erosion.

I've also got goats to help mow the weeds on the mile of dike slopes.

[cindyc]

Originally Posted by michiganfarmer

this sounds like the intensive grazing that Michigan dairy farmers have been experimenting with for the last 10 years


Muy concern is when he says to run pigs on the land and they will till the land, and there is no need to re seed. I dont know how tha towul dwork. ANy time I work some ground, and leave it, it ends up filling with weeds. I dont know how Joe figures that letting pigs work up the ground will bring grass on.

You have more experience than I do, but according to the picks and the other farmers, it seemed to work? Maybe I misunderstood something. That is ENTIRELY possible.

[cindyc]

Originally Posted by fishhead

I would think hogs would leave the land full of holes and humps like gopher mounds do to a hay field.

I try to integrate my fish production through polyculturing compatible fish species and sizes. It becomes very labor intensive at harvest time but I do believe it helps production and in some ways helps pond management. The difference between a pond with suckers and one without can be felt by walking through the pond and when it comes to pulling the seine the difference is huge. A pond without suckers produces so much chironomid (midge larvae) casings that the seine gathers it by the ton. A pond with suckers can almost be seined with one hand.

I'm experimenting with geese and muscovey ducks but I'm beginning to have my doubts. They do a great job at mowing but they also yank the grass roots out of the dikes at the waterline leading to a lot of erosion.

I've also got goats to help mow the weeds on the mile of dike slopes.

He did say something about ponds being involed in this equation, and he does throw down kelp to improve the soil... Like I said, I didn't get the whole thing.
Cindyc.

[cindyc]

Originally Posted by georgec

I think you feed seed to the cattle, it comes out mostly undigested, then the pigs work it into the ground.

Well, if they are eating topped out grasses, they are eating the seed without you having to feed it to them as a special thing, right? That is what I think he was getting at.

Cindyc.

[PACrofter]

Originally Posted by Cara

My husband is very interested after reading Omnivores Dilemma.

Excellent book, by the way. Highly recommended.

[TedH71]

Apparently hogs aren't good for Hawaiian soils. Seems they dig holes then that encourages mosquitoes to breed then the mosquitoes bring avian flu and that is killing off rare and endangered Hawaiian birds plus the hogs root up and eat the rare plants. The hogs theirselves are feral.

[kbshorts]

Hey Cindy! Check on Acres USA, I think you can register for a farm day at Polyface that they have every couple of years. I attended the last one and it was quite informative. It is hard to catch everything on the first pass.
KB