security~ keeping strangers away

[Cheryl aka JM]

I've not lived in the country before~ always in the city. We had to worry about security~ but it was different. The nieghbors were practically on top of us~ they could see your home clearly. We were in town so police station was close......

Here we are a good 1/4 mile off the road. You can't see my house from the road at all~ and I've discovered only the locals who already KNOW realize my driveway IS a driveway and not a gravel road going somewhere else. I can only see two houses from my house.....the one is at least a half mile away across my pasture and the other is behind my woods (I can only see that house at night because I can see his lights through my trees). There are no street lights~ the only illumination at all are the lights on my house.

I love it here. But last night I got scared.
The neighbor girl walked over to the house to introduce herself. The dog was in the house with me (she is most times) so I saw the girl first through the windows. She's 16~ and a bit of a drama queen I suspect.....but seems a nice girl just the same. Seems lonely....so I invited her in while I made supper. She was a total stranger~ but it was a long walk to my house, in the dark and it was cold. I couldn't see leaving her on the porch out there~ and I had supper cooking in the house. We visited a bit and supper was almost ready so I invited her to stay and told her to call her folks and let them know (it was dark). She did~ and apparently they were worried........

Apparently because "Ray" was out on the roads. Apparently "Ray" is another neighbor~ a young man about 20 years old~ who we should be worried about. According to the girl he was a "crack baby"~ his entire family (living across the main road from us in what I thought was an abandoned, rusted out, overgrown mobile home) are trouble. She told us this "Ray" fellow is a theif, who comes up on the nieghbors porches~ steals whatever he can find~ will wonder into open garages and steal stuff~ and whom this girls folks were afraid to have her out on the roads while he was out (but not because it was dark and there are no lights......only because of "Ray") She said she had to go home and immediatly I told her she was not walking my husband would drive her. But her father was already on the way to pick her up.

While all of this was going on it occured to me........
I have no idea who this girl is. I just let her into my house and invited her to supper. What would I do if a seemingly polite young man comes down the drive in the cold and dark to introduce himself? What makes me think this girl is any safer to allow in than a young man? What do I do if I see a young man on my property? How do I know if it's "Ray" or some other nieghbor? There are several other houses up on the main road. If he's really that scary.....do I let my dog out and hope she doesn't get hurt? Do I buy a gun? What do I do with it if I do? Threaten everyone I see on my drive "just in case"? Do I invite the next neighbor in and try to make friends or do I act antisocial and leave them on the porch in the cold and dark? How do I politely excuse myself if I'm busy (supper on the stove?) without inviting them in?

I'm worried now.

[HeatherDriskill]

You are gonna get some WIDE responses on this one!

I have always lived out in the sticks. When I lived with my parents, we had been there forever and knew all the neighbors, so no big deal. When I got out in a different part of the state it was a little different.

I have a big dog that I kept in with me at night. We also had a shotgun by the door and a pistol in the bedroom. The shotgun was more for shooting varmints but could have other uses...If my husband was home, I might be a little braver but I never just invited a stranger in. I think that's weird that the girl traipsed over in the dark and cold.

I'm not really paranoid at all. However, if a stranger came to my door at night, I would be cautious.

I've never had any trouble, btw. Most people out there are just good 'ole country people.

[Nel frattempo]

Oh My! Too many questions at once. Just to share thoughts on a few of your points:
-we have two gates and keep them locked when we do not want "company" (that will not work for you if people are going through your fields)
-I would suggest telling the young people when you do not want guests or suggest what is a good time for "drop ins"
-We NEVER EVER tell anyone that we will be gone, not here, away, out of town, etc. Never. We have only one good close neighbor/friend who takes care of our animals and he alone knows the schedules.
-I would suggest getting to know the adult neighbors, chatting and talking and learning all you can about all the neighbors so you will know better who you can trust and whom should be kept at arms length (or outside the locked gates). Kids can pass on information (and it seems as if your young guest last night certainly had a bit to say) but it is the adults who will be more help when you need it.
-We do keep dogs out and we do train them to "perimeter" track and monitor. Read up on how to train your dog to bark only when there is real danger and not just a rabbit.
-We do not invite everyone inside the house. Even if they are standing on the porch. Around here that is not considered a bad thing. You "visit" on the porch or in the yard with those who have not been invited or with those whom you wish would move on. Others we do ask inside. I probably would not have asked the young girl inside until I knew her better - but then drama queens would probably not make it inside here even after I knew them better.

You were very nice and it was especially nice that you had her call before leaving your property to head home. Put a few chairs on your porch, and a little table if room and plan to "visit" outside (we have log chunk seats outside around a camp fire spot where we chat with neighbors) until you get to know folks better. Good luck and relax - most folks are nice - even the ones that may not seem like good neighbor material can surprise you. Our "best neighbor" out here was reported to be a total criminal (and he did have some minor brushes with the law) but he is now a good guy and a good neighbor. Had we run him off with a gun, we would have missed out on a good friend. Just go slow and you will figure it out.

[Chuck]

Hey, welcome to the country. Sounds like you have a nice place there.

It's common when people move from the city for them to have feelings like this...the country seems dangerous to them when in reality it's probably far safer. Part of the reason it IS far safer is that the folks out here pretty much all have guns, and know how to use them. So it wouldn't hurt for you to have a shotgun, but I wouldn't feel the need to wave it around. Just go out and shoot it during the day sometimes to get a feel for it, and "advertize" to the neighbors that you own one. Might sound silly, but it certainly has worked for us.

The other reason you are probably safer is that you have a dog. People who are unfamiliar to you are unfamiliar to your dog as well, and vice versa. Probably the only reason we've not had anything pilfered since living here in WV is because our two large dogs roam at will - but somehow know not to leave our property. They are friendly as can be, but will bark at anyone coming on the property. Usually, barking is enough.

As for inviting visitors in...we usually don't do it, but here in WV it doesn't seem to be culturally appropriate to do so. Our neighbor, whom I consider to be a good friend, has never been inside my house. I've invited him - but he always refuses. He'll stand on the porch all day, though.

If someone comes late at night that I don't know, you can bet I'm not letting them in the house. (a teenaged girl might be the exception - not much of a threat). And more than once, when someone has strayed onto our property long after dark and didn't immediately leave when they realized it's a dead-end, I've gone outside with a shotgun - not threatening, just careful. That might seem nuts to a city person, but in the country, a guy carrying a shotgun on his own property isn't necessarily cause for alarm.

[ihedrick]

I can definately feel for you. I have strangers come to my place all the time...either lost, wants to buy chicken,goat, etc, or have Iseen their dog. For the most part it is during day hours and not as scarry. I would look into an outdoor light available through your electric company. Mine costs $10 a month, but lights up the front area of my house. Its like a street light.
I would also talk a little more with that family about that guy and the local police to see what "crimes" have been reported in your area. They could also recommend ways to "secure" your house and property. If you feel comfy with a gun; get one. Consider a dog to stay outside and bark when strangers come up to the house to alert you...I have a beagel for that. She'll bark her head off, but wouldn't bite a flea!
If you have unexpected company and it isn't a good time; politely explain so. Something like "I'd love to spend time to chat, but I have some chores I absolutely must get done before dark/dinner/8 p.m. or whatever fits." Then suggest a time they come back or tell them you'll visit them at such and such time. Most people understand animals must be fed on a schedule or they'll protest. Even joke with them that if you don't get back to feeding, the pigs will take over the farm.
I'd also be cautious of strangers in your house as they could be "casing out the place". Now I know it seems that the girl was probably just bored and just wanted to check out the nieghbors. But if someone comes up on your place to ask something or is lost...make a mental note of them as suspicious characters.
Lastly, in the Marines, we always said "Gear adrift was a gift". Meaning if you left something out and not put away or locked up, it was meant to be a gift to whomever finds it out. So if this guy Ray does come up to your place, make sure you don't have easy stuff laying out for him to steal. If he, and his family, really are into drugs they will do most anything to get money to support their habit.
I'm sure you'll get more thoughts on this; use the ones that feel right to you and your situation.

[Chuck]

Oh, and if we'd been in your situation, my WIFE would have driven the teenaged girl home. I don't think it's a good idea to be alone in the car with a young woman, especially one I don't know...that leaves me open to "allegations" that I'd rather avoid.

[Ernie]

You don't know for sure that girl's story is true. Check it out with some of your more trustworthy neighbors before you get too worried.

As far as general strangers go, my house is a little off the beaten path, but seems like every weekend there's garage sales enthusiasts or motorcyclists who come cruising by ... lost on their way to something else. Some pull up into the driveway and if they see you outside then occasionally they ask for directions. Often as not they pull up into the driveway and then turn around without so much as a wave. City folk.

If I'm home, I'll gauge each situation differently, but if it's just the wife and kids they aren't likely to let anyone in unless they know them. Well, I say that, but she knows not to pick up hitchhikers either and she still did last year when she saw a young couple with a baby out on the highway in the rain. I was furious, but she told me there was no way she was leaving someone stranded out there with a baby. I couldn't have done it either.

In the end, we must have faith in God that he will lead those who need help to our door and lead those who intend harm in the opposite direction. If you aren't a person of faith, well then I pity you, because this world must be one big scary ol' place.

[Callieslamb]

with the sheriff's dept or someone. Every time I move to a new home, some has to step forward and let me know who to stay away from; who is trouble and the sad history of others around. I have found most of what they say to not be true. I don't need to know other's sad history - if they have gotten past it -then who am I to judge them for it? And many of those I am expected to stay away from become good friends.

Please check first with someone who will know for sure if this young man is real trouble or simply misunderstood because of his situation.

But, if it is true, then definately find ways to keep things put away and locked up - which you should anyway. We live on the dead end of a dead end street. It is amazing how many people will still come all the way down our road. Sometimes they will even knock on my door. I refuse to be intimidated - though I am the only one home during the day for a good 1/2 mile. I always answer the door, so they will know someone is home. Mostly, they are fine people just needing directions or some such thing. However, every once in a while, some come by that it isn't as easy to see what they are about. I simply stand strong and tall at the door and send them on their way. Once a van load of men came - they said they were starting a new carpet cleaning business in a town 1 hr away. Hum? When I told them I was not interested, one asked to see my carpet anyway. HUM? I told them to get off my property. I refuse to look like an intimidated person and try to project the attitude that I can take care of myself. Bullies and criminals don't like to take on someone their own size. They will look for easier victims elsewhere. Or that is what I hope. I think it helps to have a cell phone in your hand.

[michiganfarmer]

I havent had any trouble with strangers.

My neighbor, and his freiend the cop, are a couple of tresspassers. Luckily I havent had any trouble from them in a few years either.

[Bearfootfarm]

As for those who dont know your drive is NOT a public road, just put up a "posted" sign, or one that simply says " Private Property, not a public road"

http://www.google.com/search?complete=1&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=private+drive+signs

[Tracy Rimmer]

I grew up an hour from the nearest town. My Dad kept a shotgun behind the kitchen door (the door that most people would knock on, given the layout of the house on the lot) and had several others in his bedroom. My brothers all had their hunting rifles in their rooms, too.

If someone knocked on the door when we weren't expecting anyone, Dad had one hand on that gun. So far as I know, he only ever pointed it at anyone once... when a new "neighbor" moved in a few miles down the road and decided to explore the house via the bathroom window one evening when he thought my parents had gone out (my mother had passed in the car, on her way to a friends' house for a few minutes).

I currently live alone with my kids two miles from the nearest village. DH works fourteen hours and two provinces away most of the time, and we're here alone, a lot. I'm less worried here than all the years he travelled and left me alone in larger centres. I sleep with a cel phone beside my bed, and the dog sleeping on the floor in the hall outside the bedrooms. Nothing would get past her. Nothing pulls into the driveway without her losing her tiny little mind

I am concerned that Halloween might bring trouble. Apparently, it's tradition here to pull stunts on people out in the country -- cutting bales and letting cattle out appears to be favorites of the the "townies" (teenaged kids from the village). Locally, the "trick" part appears to be the important bit.

But I agree with Chuck -- the perception of most people moving from city to country is that it's not as safe, that there is little security because you can't yell and have your neighbors hear you -- but in actual fact, sound carries a good distance on the night air, and THESE neighbors are much more likely to do something if they hear a scream for help or the sound of a gunshot. At least I feel safer here

[Cabin Fever]

Some good suggestions so far. I would recommend that you take advantage of these resources as you consider home security and self-protection:

NRA's "Refuse to be a Victim" Program

NRA's "Women on Target" Program

[marvella]

and here i thought this was going to be one of those "i moved to the country and i'm afraid of the dark!" posts. LOL!!

you have gotten excellent advice so far.

go visit the girls parents and check out her story. it pays to get to know your neighbors anyway. in my experince, 99%+ of the people you meet will be good people. if something does go wrong at your place, they are who you will need to call for help. it pays to be friendly.

it also pays to know that most home burglaries are done by someone who had already been in your house to see what you have worth stealing. another good reason to meet the parents.

[PA_MIKE]

I can understand your feelings. As a former police officer and a former city dweller maybe I can help you. Your place sounds just like mine.

1. First thing that I did was place a gate at the end of my lane. (2000' from the house) I placed a combination lock on it, that way if I have to call emergency services (25 miles away) I can give them the combo. Also my family and a few neighbors, the UPS man, the meter reader, etc have the combo. I can change it at any time if any problems arise.

2. Get to know your neighbors, then make your decisions on who is trouble and who is not. Around here we have a few trouble makers but not many. We help each other out a good bit. It is nothing for me to come home and find my neighbor in my workshop borrowing a tool or find my truck gone with a note on the door that he needed a pick up for the day. Your neighbors will become your eyes and ears and they expect the same in return. But you need to draw your own opinions on them. It sounds like the young lady who came to visit would be a good start as to getting to know your neighbors.

Remember.... If all hell let's loose in this day of a age.... you and your neighbors will be depending on each other.

3. Get a dog. I do not believe in harboring a dangerous dog. But if you treat them with love they will protect the family if needed. Never encourage the dog not to bark. It is their job to alert you of things a miss.

4. If someone wants to steal or rob something from you, they do not want to do it with you home. Everyone here knows if they need something, all they have to do is ask. I leave my home unlocked most of the time. If they want to get inside they will. I would rather them walk in than bust my windows or doors.

5. Get a firearm just in case. Can you imagine if we had a terrorist attack in the US that took out our infrastructure? Go to CBS.com and watch Jericho. You will understand.

6. Place motion sensor lights around your house. I do not know how many times my wife has waken me up thinking that she heard something. Most of the time it was the cat or dog. But you can look outside and see if the light has tripped.

7. Place security signs on your doors and on you gate.

8. Get to know your law enforcement officials. Once they get to know and trust you, they can be a wealth of info.

9. You will find that most country folk just want to mind their own and survive
just like you.

I hope this helps\
Mike

[DocM]

In 22 years, I can count on one hand the number of people who have casually walked up to my house and knocked on the door. It's not that I"m unfriendly, it's just not "normal" for isolated country folk to do that. They come to visit around in the light of day, when they happen to see you at the mailbox or in town, but not at night, in the dark, unannounced. I'd be suspicious of that girl, not the crack baby neighbor.

My driveway has a gate and is posted. There's a box for the ups/fed ex man, my mailbox is at the head of the road, I don't have garbage service, and my electric meter has a radio transmitter. There's no reason for anyone to come in, unless my place is on fire and I've called 911. My neighbors (friendly but keep-to-themselves types) are the same, including the one or two crazy ones. You'll figure out who is who soon enough, friend or foe.

Be nice, but not too nice until you've been there a bit. Don't listen to anyone's 'story' about your neighbors, wait and see for yourself how people behave and make up your own mind. My experience is that the really crazy ones are the first to announce who ELSE to watch out for. In the meantime, put up a gate, keep a dog who barks at company, or install a driveway announcer so you know when someone is coming up your drive (the beam type that will announce vehicle or mammal, not the weight type).

And get a gun.

[Cheryl aka JM]

Ots of good info coming in~ I really appreciate it. Some things I had not thought of (your right~ I should have volunteered myself and not my husband to drive the girl home) and some I had. The NRA does not seem to have any programs around here~ but if I keep looking I imagine I can find a gun safety class.......
More lights.......I think I'm going to swap some of the outside lights for motion activated lights
And maybe another dog~ a BIG outdoor only one (how mean will I feel every night letting one dog in and leaving the other out? But if I get another dog it will be specifically for outdoor secuirity.)

I'm kind of wondering what I'll do if the girl comes back over tonight or brings friends~ considering I already let her in the house once it might be uncomfortable if I don't invite her in again.

[Randy Rooster]

The gun advice is good advice. Make sure you practice with it different times of the day so everyone in the area knows you have it.

[Buk]

I'll second the suggestion of getting to know the neighbors (not Ray's family, of course), particularly the ones bordering your property. Visit them to introduce yourself, carry a cake, pie, or a bag of mixed fruit. Be pleasant and listen to them. You'll learn a lot.

We moved to the country in '95. The 25 acres we bought had been in one family for several generations and would have been bought by someone in the family if they had known it was for sale - long story....... We introduced ourselves bearing gifts. The neighboring couple to the east were a retired preacher and his wife who, it turned out, was not well thought of by those that knew them. They later poisoned one of our dogs and we have avoided them since. The neighbor on the other side, however, was another retired man that had seven grown children, most living in our area. We formed a close relationship with him and his family before he died in 2000. He had a garden but didn't cook, we cooked but didn't have a garden yet so we pretty well fed him for about a year with his vegetables and our store-bought meat. He invited us to accompany him to his family reunion (the community is named for his family) and with a mischevious smile on his face, introduced my wife as his 'daughter'. I think because of that, we were accepted into the community and are still close to his family, all three generations of them.

With the exception of the retired preacher (who his family said should have been neutered at birth along with his wife so they couldn't breed), we have found our neighbors to be helpful and friendly - real nice country folks!!!!

[fantasymaker]

BY all means get to know Ray like they say hold your friends close and your enemies closer!
In practical terms have hubby casually meet him. Hubby should be friendly so Ray thinks of him as a nice guy but hubby should also casually mention that coming to visit unannounced or at night is a really bad idea because he still feels bad about shooting his best friend one night when the friend did that . But its OK because the nightmares about the funeral have nearly gone away.. Then a casual yea my eyesight ain't what it used to be but I just cant seem to stop the reflex to shoot at shadows in the dark.

A few shoots at random times each month will help reinforce the story.

Be careful forming alliances until you have been in the area a couple of years. Things are often not what they appear on the surface. Reputations in the country are not always what people are but what the family was 2,3,or 4 generations ago.
A local farmer, real estate broker and auctioneer is usually refered to as a great guy and outstanding member of the community,however if you get someone talking specifically almost everyone has a story of how this guy has underhandedly ripped them off in some way. Yet most think of it as a aberration since the common knowledge is hes a nice guy.....?

[fantasymaker]

Originally Posted by Chuck

If someone comes late at night that I don't know, you can bet I'm not letting them in the house. (a teenaged girl might be the exception - not much of a threat).

You might want to rethink the above in light of the below.

Originally Posted by Chuck

Oh, and if we'd been in your situation, my WIFE would have driven the teenaged girl home. I don't think it's a good idea to be alone in the car with a young woman, especially one I don't know...that leaves me open to "allegations" that I'd rather avoid.

And unfortunately in light of todays world apply it to children and females of all ages.
I have a cop acquaintance who has told me that in most of the allegation cases he has handled(something like 85%) he has been suspicious of a broken "crush" not an actual incident, sadly due to the workings of the law he has had far more of these cases prosecuted than he feels should have been.