The scourge of the earth......CATS!

[Scrounger]

I just found out that my brother is convinced that cats (the barnyard farm cat variety....) are ruining the eco system in the midwest. Supposedly, they are killing all the quail, pheasant and other fowl around this part of the country, as well as the small mammal population. Evidently they don't like turkey......
Anyway -
I think he's been nipping again or is starting to think like Al Gore - or maybe both.......
That's all we need - a world run by cats.....

[BaronsMom]

Your brother is right...there is a real problem with feral cats and wild bird populations and native mammals.

(and I don't like Al Gore)

This is an older study (released 1997) from Univ of Wisconsin: The most reasonable estimates indicate that 39 million birds are killed in the state each year. Nationwide, rural cats probably kill over a billion small mammals and hundreds of millions of birds each year. http://wildlife.wisc.edu/extension/catfly3.htm

[65284]

Don't laugh or be so quick to dismiss what he is saying. Bro's got it right!!!

Few things more destructive to native wildllife than this introduced non-native species. Unbelievably effecient predators who kill for sport, and will thrive where a dog would starve to death.

And while I'm ranting, very few things are more likely to destroy or seriously damage the inside of a property than cats. They 1. shed, 2. claw, 3. pee, 4. carp, or all of the above, on everything.

[Scrounger]

Originally Posted by BaronsMom

Your brother is right...there is a real problem with feral cats and wild bird populations and native mammals.

(and I don't like Al Gore)

He's not talking about FERAL cats, he's talking about domestic barnyard cats.

[RichieC]

He is still right. Outdoor cats are responsible for a tremendous amount of harm.

I have one anyway. She lives in the barn and eats mostly mice. If she gets an occasional songbird, that's too bad.

[BaronsMom]

Originally Posted by Scrounger

He's not talking about FERAL cats, he's talking about domestic barnyard cats.

The Wisconsin study included feral, rural and cats considered household pets in some of their numbers.

[jessepona]

There are actually a lot of people that feel that way. DH certainly does, he has a large feral population around one of his preserves that is wreaking havoc on the native bird population. Of course, there's a difference between a feral cat and a barn cat. Added for clarification: Being a subsidized predator (one who doesn't have to hunt for food), a barn cat can hunt longer than a feral cat (if a feral cat hunts too long in an unproductive area it is subject to diminishing returns) and could therefore be considered even more destructive...

Here's a decent article: http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/fwt/back_...er98/cats.html

But I'd really like to read a scientific study on how many birds and small mammals outside cats actually kill. Has anyone found such a study? So while I can't attest to the numerical affect they're are having on wildlife, I've had trouble with cats and my chickens. I've seen a cat take down a full grown chicken before. I don't know if it was feral or a barn cat though.

[Scrounger]

EXACTY! Actually, there isn't much change in the bird population around where I live from when I was a kid. People tell me all the quail are gone. I hear them all the time - pheasants as well. Still think he's nippin'......

[BaronsMom]

Originally Posted by jessepona

There are actually a lot of people that feel that way. DH certainly does, he has a large feral population around one of his preserves that is wreaking havoc on the native bird population. Of course, there's a big difference between a feral cat and a barn cat.

Here's a decent article: http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/fwt/back_...er98/cats.html

But I'd really like to read a scientific study on how many birds and small mammals outside cats actually kill. Has anyone found such a study? So while I can't attest to the numerical affect they're are having on wildlife, I've had trouble with cats and my chickens. I've seen a cat take down a full grown chicken before. I don't know if it was feral or a barn cat though.

See the Univ of Wisconsin link above and look at the references the scientific studies used in putting together the publication.

[jessepona]

Originally Posted by BaronsMom

See the Univ of Wisconsin link above and look at the references the scientific studies used in putting together the publication.

Thanks! I knew I heard about one on NPR, but I couldn't remember where the study was done.

[jessepona]

Originally Posted by Scrounger

EXACTY! Actually, there isn't much change in the bird population around where I live from when I was a kid. People tell me all the quail are gone. I hear them all the time - pheasants as well. Still think he's nippin'......

I don't know. When I moved into a wooded area in Ohio there were no cats and lots and lots of songbirds. We got one barn cat, which soon turned into 5 barn cats and before we knew it, our backyard was silent and our feeder seldom frequented. I caught the cats with birds and small mammals fairly frequently. I think that your experience probably depends on how many cats are in your area and how effective they are at hunting. Overall though, I'd have to say that cats are quite destructive. I'll have to read that study before I commit myself to exactly how destructive they are.

[MariaAZ]

I know the Galapagos Islands aren't Farmland, USA, but this paper from DarwinFoundation.org shows the impact cats have on native wildlife populations in an isolated area : http://darwinfoundation.org/files/sp...df/cats-en.pdf

Although we live in a large city, domestic cats are the bane of many residents' existence. I used to feed the wild birds in our back yard until the neighbor's cats decided we were providing an all day all-you-can-eat buffet. It was with great sadness that I took down the feeders; I used to enjoy watching the birds visit the feeders in my solid fenced back yard. Fences keep dogs out, but they don't keep cats out so rather than create a population of sitting ducks for the neighbor's cats I quit feeding and watering the birds.

I have read in many threads about barn cats that it isn't necessary to keep one always hungry in order for it to be a good mouser. The same is true for hunting birds, too; a full cat will hunt birds. We have had indoor cats for almost 18 years and they are free-fed, always having a bowl of food for their eating pleasure. A few times birds have found their way into our screened room where the cats sun themselves, and we've had to compete with the cats to catch the birds; only difference is, we let them go and the cats don't.

[donsgal]

Originally Posted by Scrounger

I just found out that my brother is convinced that cats (the barnyard farm cat variety....) are ruining the eco system in the midwest. Supposedly, they are killing all the quail, pheasant and other fowl around this part of the country, as well as the small mammal population. Evidently they don't like turkey......
Anyway -
I think he's been nipping again or is starting to think like Al Gore - or maybe both.......
That's all we need - a world run by cats.....

LOL Your brother is paranoid. Yes, cats are responsible for some bird deaths but so are other preditors such as coyotes, etc. You can't single out one specie as being "bad" when they are just doing what they are designed to do. As for the small mammal population, that would include RATS and MICE, I don't think you are going to find too many people crying in their beer at the number of poor, defenseless rats that are dispatched by the midwest feline population. LOL

donsgal

[Oggie]

I don't think it's right to call cats "bad."

The correct word is "EVIL!"

[fishhead]

[QUOTE=MariaAZ]I know the Galapagos Islands aren't Farmland, USA, but this paper from DarwinFoundation.org shows the impact cats have on native wildlife populations in an isolated area : http://darwinfoundation.org/files/sp...df/cats-en.pdf

Although we live in a large city, domestic cats are the bane of many residents' existence. I used to feed the wild birds in our back yard until the neighbor's cats decided we were providing an all day all-you-can-eat buffet. It was with great sadness that I took down the feeders; I used to enjoy watching the birds visit the feeders in my solid fenced back yard. Fences keep dogs out, but they don't keep cats out so rather than create a population of sitting ducks for the neighbor's cats I quit feeding and watering the birds.

QUOTE]

I have a dog pen fenced in with 2" welded wire. My bird feeders are inside that and I've never had a cat problem even though I see the neighbors cats prowling around outside the pen regularly.

[Selena]

We'll be sure to send all vermin to those who think cats are eco-terrorists. Me, a few birds for the cause is worth the vermin population under control. Not a big fan of plague and hantavirus but if you want to catch it, please pay for it out of pocket. Feral cats probably don't kill that much as hungry cats aren't the best hunters.
Of course if we really want to get down to eco-terrorists, we can list developers (thirsty Atlanta?), politicians, and big business.

[MaggieJ]

Originally Posted by 65284

And while I'm ranting, very few things are more likely to destroy or seriously damage the inside of a property than cats. They 1. shed, 2. claw, 3. pee, 4. carp, or all of the above, on everything.

That's a sweeping generalization that is far from accurate. YOUR cat may do those things. Your experience with cats seems to have been most unfortunate, but please do not condemn housecats in general.

My cat, Marilla, does none of the above except shed... and since she is short-haired, not even all that much of that. She claws only on her scratching post, has never once missed the litter box even times I have forgotten to clean it when I should have... and while she is an excellent hunter of rodents, she seldom kills birds. She does not run loose outside, but goes out with us on a 20 foot leash. If the people who lived here (me included) were as tidy and fastidious as Marilla is, our house would look a whole lot better.

[Tracy Rimmer]

Originally Posted by Scrounger

I just found out that my brother is convinced that cats (the barnyard farm cat variety....) are ruining the eco system in the midwest.

Gee, Scrounger... I didn't know you were related to Oggie

[Jim S.]

I like Al Gore, and have a Gore 2008 sticker on my farm truck that has been there 2 years so far, so I'm no johnny come lately. Gore's work makes me proud to be a Tennessean, and I only wish our country would latch onto the millions of jobs that could be created by making affordable products to cut emissions rather than resisting the concept and giving that technology and jobs edge to the Asian Rim and Europe. Had that been the case with hybrid autos, for example, the domestic Big 3 would not be cutting royalty checks to Japan for the technology used in every hybrid they build.

That said, about those cats...

In the case of quail, what is killing them is the removal of fencerows and native grassed areas (loss of habitat) and pesticides (which get eaten by bugs, which are then eaten by quail). That's what science has found. Eight years ago, quail were heard all over my farm, singing their hearts out in spring, and a covey was easy to flush out from the pasture just by walking it. Six years ago, cotton began to be farmed across the road. Four years ago, it was planted behind my place, too.

This spring, I heard one lone quail. One.

The reason for the decline of quail in my specific case is Temik (aldicarb), a cotton pesticide that is laid down ONE GRAIN at a time next to the cotton seed when it is planted. The plant takes it up, the bugs eat it, the birds eat the bugs, and all die. Then the hawk eats the sick bird, or the vulture eats the dead one, and they die. Mice eat the bugs, and they die. The vulture eats the mice, and dies. A general kill-off is a condition of its use, according to its own data sheet.

Here you go. Read #3 in particular.

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles...carb-fact.html

There are similarly potent pesticides used with corn and soybeans. And hold on to your hat. Temik is a sugar beet pesticide, meaning it could be used a lot more in the Midwest as ethanol from beets rises.

Why are songbirds dying? Overwhelmingly, it is humans, not cats!

[pancho]

In radio collar studies done of wild birds, nest monitoring, and video cameras by the Tall Timbers Research Station, cats were #2 in the top 10 of quail killers. Top place was Cooper's Hawks.