Native Prairie Hay Grasses?

[Up North]

Please tell me all you know about them!
What grass species are included?
When and how to plant?
Seed Availability...Cost estimate?
Cost-Sharing Programs?
Thickening or improving existing stands?
Stories, memories, legend, lore, myths of the Native Prairie Grasses...
all are fair game!

[rambler]

The govt has gotten into renting land from people & specifying the exact type & mix of native grasses to plant on these rented acres.

So, the seeds are real expensive, and everything gets prescribed by the govt.

Exact species depends on where you live.

Most are warm season grasses, which are very tuff & hearty plants once you get them going a year or 3; but they do not grow well from seed, are very slow to grow, and do not compete well with rapid-growing weeds.

So once you get them growing, very easy to keep going. But, hard to beat out the weeds & get a good stand in the early year(s).

--->Paul

[Alice In TX/MO]

You need to check with your local County Extension Agent to find out what is native in your area. Obviously, what is native in south Texas is *not* native in Ohio....or where you are.

He will also have the other info you need about planting.

If you are south central, here's a source of seed:
http://www.seedsource.com/

[OkieDavid]

Ditto Rose's comment. Seedsource is a good supplier and the seeds are EXPENSIVE. Mainly because of the difficulty of obtaining a pure stand of seed plants and modifications of existing harvesting equipment (screens on combines for example) to harvest specific sized seeds.
U.S. Department of Agriculture, Natural Resouces Conservation Service (NRCS) has cost share programs in place to assist in funding. These cost shares allow your time to be the cost share. They will also have a source for local native plants/grasses for your area.

[fishhead]

I predict that once we crack the barrier to cellulosic ethanol raising prairie grass seed is going to be VERY profitable. Dr. Tillman from the Univ of MN just did a study that showed using a mixture of native prairie grass yielded a huge amount of energy vs energy inputs. It also sequestered more than 1 ton of CO2 per acre per year.

If I had property I would be learning how to grow it and collect the seed.

[Up North]

Thanks for replies. So, can native grasses be planted in the fall?

[fishhead]

Since that is when seeds are mature I would expect that to be the best time to plant but I don't have any experience.

The Nature Conservancy is restoring some prairie so they may have some info on getting started.

[Scrounger]

I mix seeds in with any manure that I spread - spring or fall. Seems To be working ......

[Windy in Kansas]

Sharp Brothers Seed Company is a small town company that has been dealing seeds of all kinds for decades. With the advent of the Conservation Reserve Program they started carrying more grasses.

http://www.sharpseed.com/

This PDF file site of Farm Services Agency on CRP plantings may provide you with useful information.

http://www.fsa.usda.gov/Internet/FSA_File/crpcp2.pdf

I seem to recall a friend telling me that FSA require him to plant a cover crop of some variety of sorghum. The seeding of grass was done into the mature and dry residue the following spring. It could be that the cover crop was to prevent washing of the seed from rains or to help with wind errosion moving the seed around before sprouting.

As I recall mowing the first year and then spraying for several years to control weeds was mandated for the CRP. I do know that for CRP a payment is made to the land owner for such control. Burning of the prior year residue is also done in many instances.

Bromegrass is often used for native grasses which will be cut for hay in our area of Kansas. http://www.nativegrasses.com/info/bromegrass.html

Side oats gramma is another. http://www.illinoiswildflowers.info/...s/so_grama.htm

[ksfarmer]

Try www.gostarseed.com for a lot of info and a source of seed native to Kansas.
The FSA will have information and the CRP program is available for cost share, but, you have to follow their rules and guidlines. A good source of info with no strings attached is the Kansas Extension Service out of KSU. You can contact your local office or the state office at Kansas State.
I have planted a native (bluestem, gamma, indian, etc) mix in the fall and had good luck. Freezing and thawing in the winter will open cracks for the seed to fall in and snow cover gives moisture for the seed to sprout as it warms in the spring. The first couple of years weeds will be a problem but if you mow off the weeds, the grass will gradually fill in and establish itself.
Another source of seed and info is www.prairiesource.com

[Farmer Joe]

If you enroll in CRP, you will NOT be be able to harvest seed or cut it for hay. If you want to use it for hay and/or seed look into the EQIP program. your local county NRCS office will be able to give you information on the program. It is usually 50% cost share on new hay plantings. They also cost share for fencing and waterlines. You can find your local office at: http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/about/organ...n/regions.html

[jessepona]

Yeah, you can plant native seed in the fall. It's a great time to do it. Just burn off the area you want to seed after the first frost and sprinkle your native seed around. If you follow up your planting with prescribed burns or mowing regimes (to mimic buffalo grazing LOL) the native grasses do compete well with the cool season stuff. Try getting this book from your library or ordering it off amazon: Tallgrass Restoration Handbook.

The Nature Conservancy (www.nature.org) is also a great resource.

If you can find a place to collect the seed yourself, it's not expensive at all. There are lots of roadside and railroad prairies out there with Indian Grass, Big Bluesteam and Little Bluestem. Once you know how to identify them (they're very distinctive) just walk around rural railroad tracks and look for patches of them. Here in Indiana they're just starting to get ripe. You can tell it's ready by running your hand through the infructescence. If the seed comes off in your hand, it's ready. If not, come back in a few days and try again. Make sure you don't collect more than 40% of the seed though. Beyond this amount, the remnant seed bank may suffer.

Good luck!

ETA: I wanted to add that before you burn, you should get permission from the fire dept., mow fire lines and make sure you have enough help and water to keep the fire under control. It might actually be easier to just mow the area instead if you haven't burned off a large area before. Mowing works almost as well. You don't get the benefit of the fire killing the weed seeds though. Still, it's much safer and easier.

[IMContrary]

I once knew an old man who had raised mules all his life. He swore that prairie hay was the best there was for horses and mules.

[Rockin'B]

When we lived in Nebraska we bought prairie grass hay. The cattle loved it and did well on it.
Just outside Lincoln is a small patch of original prairie that can be visited. If I remeber correctly, it's called 9 mile Prairie.

Perhaps the Univ. of Nebraska could be a resource for info.

[Tana Mc]

Prairie grass hay is by far the best winter hay that I have ever used. When we first moved here, I was hesitant to use it because the bales stacked on the edge of the barn had been bleached by the sun-- they turned a reddish pink color. The guy I bought it from just laughed at me!
Tana Mc

[Up North]

Thank You Folks for all the good information and links.
Heather will assemble a bookmark with all the links for reference and study.
We have a field of Native Prairie hay on our new farm. I asked an older farmer "who planted it?" A smile came across his face, he hitched his thumb under the shoulderstrap of his bib overalls and said "That was planted by Jesus Christ himself!"
Here's a pic of cutting Prairie Hay July 15, 2007

************************************************** *************
Tana Mc- We have a bunch of them pink round bales too!

PS - Can Prairie hay seed mix for hayfields be planted with a Brillion Surestand Seeder?

[Scrounger]

Originally Posted by Farmer Joe

If you enroll in CRP, you will NOT be be able to harvest seed or cut it for hay.

That depends. Usually (here anyway) every year they open up CRP for haying. Weather conditions have a lot to do with it. We baled the neighbors CRP three years in a row now, and will probably do it again next year (wait and see).

[farminghandyman]

Government recommendations (for CRP) are not the best grasses for grazing, there the better grasses for birds and other wildlife habitat,

yes they are "native" grasses, but there is NO DESIRE by the CRP programs to duplicate the native grasses in ones area, they want grasses that will be used by recreational hunters and for wild life habitat,

the bulk of grass I was forced to plant IS NOT A PALATABLE GRASS FOR CATTLE, but pheasants love it,

I have a lot of native prairie land and even had the NRCS come out and do a native grass survey so we could duplicate it, on one year they said great, with some additional grass (native but in the 1 and 2 % ranges) but pushed up to the 10 to 20% range, the unpalatable pheasant grass,
but one of the most prevalent grass in my native pastures, was not even specified, I talked them in letting me add it, since it was native,
the second CRP sign up the grass recommendations by the local office was changed by Washington there was no choice,

your native grasses will depend on the location, the soil types, the elevation, moisture ability, what you may have will or can be different jsut a few miles away or even in the same pastures. so one will have to study out your local area, and talk to a seed dealer,

I on my crp trees, (i had to provide the grasses out of pocket no cost share) so I did my choice, and many of the seed companies have pasture mixes predesigned, some to soil types, some to type of grazing, and some to regions, for example my grass I planted in my trees, is a sand pasture mix, and it is beautiful very similar to my pastures, but not grazed,

yes fall is a good time to plant grasses, many of the grasses will need to go through a winter to break the seed down to germinate, some seeds may not germinate for two or three years, after planting,
it may take 3 to 6 years to established / developed the pasture, and during that time grazing should be nearly eliminated to let it established, if you have or try to seed a grazing pasture or field the results will be nearly none, a lot will depend on the type of moisture you get as well during that establishment period, in dryer climates.

(in our area they say that you should start to see results in about three years), so in our area the "10 year rental" should be about enough time to get a good established grass land, or us).

my trees I planted the grass I think 4/5 years ago, and this year it in most places starting to look very good, (but I did that my self, and used a different planting system than that of the government's recommendation and I thought it worked much better).