Basic haymaking equipment

[Mark T]

I have secured a long term lease on a 30 acre hay field. I don't have a tractor or equipment, so I asked a neighbor to go in with me to make the hay with (I thought) the understanding that I would buck the bales and we would go thirds - one third to me for labor and land, one third for equipment, one third to sell to buy lime and fertilizer.

Well, it turns out that the tractor owner wants a whole lot more. He told me the new terms after the grass was cut - either he gets two thirds or he leaves it in the field. I had no choice but to let him take the two thirds.

Now, he has a point in that he had more capital invested. I don't so much mind the level of the cut - I can see two third being fair based on what he brings to the table, but the manner of renegotiation has me thinking I don't want to do business with him in the future.

All of the other local farmers make round bales, so there is no one else to turn to for small bale equipment.

If I wanted to cut my own hay next year, what is the minimum equipments and general start-up expense I can expect?

Does anyone have a book recommendation on making hay?

[js2743]

2/3 sounds about right thats how i do it if i do what he did. if he had fairly new equipment including tractor he had maybe close to 50000 dollars worth of equipment in that field and you cant do it any cheaper than 2/3rds. for your own equipment im guessing a good used mowing machine is gonna be around 1000 1500 for used one to 6000 for a new one, hay rake maybe in 1000 to 1500 range for used one and 3000 to 4000 for a new one, square baler is gonna cost around 1500 to 2000 range or maybe lil more for good used one and 10000 to 15000 for a new one. so unless you have a lot of hay land it would be cheeper for you to hire it done where you get all of it. you just got to figure up how much it will be and then figure out how many years you are going to be doing it. maybe if you plan on doing the hay for several years you might be better off buying your own equipment.

[agmantoo]

I agree on the equipment pricing. Should you live anywhere near NC I have a surplus MF124 baler in storage that is in good condition for $2400. I can put you on a gas burner ~35 HP IH tractor for around $2800. I just have a lot of machinery that I no longer use and need the storage area. I also have a good 3 point disc that I no longer use if anyone is interested.

[JacknJava]

Oh wow...thanks for posting the pricing of some of the equipment. We have a 10-acre field that we thought we might hay ourselves someday, but not at those prices! We currently pay someone $15/round bale to cut and bale it for us for our horses.

[vallyfarm]

I bale around 50 acres of some decently flat to very hilly ground. Tractor is a Farmall Super H, haybine is a 7' NI, baler is a 273 NH with kicker. Live PTO would be nice on a tractor, but I've gotten by for around 20 yrs without it. Too many people think you need all sorts of money tied up in new equipment to farm, but then the bank/credit union are the only ones getting paid for all your work. I run 2 wagons only...one to be unloaded while the other is being baled. I have under $5,000 total invested. Old iron dosen't break much too. Things like live hyd's, live PTO, A/C, or all the new plastic and computers will let you down. I bought that Super H just after high school, replaced the brakes twice, and the starter brushes just went this year. Other than that...nothing. Original clutch, engine, tranny gears...even has the same sparkplugs, tires, and battery that I bought it. A GOOD old piece of equipment can last almost forever. Hit the auctions, but bring an old timer with you...One that rembers WWII, or at least Korea. These guys forget more in a day about farming than most of us will ever know in our lives. Today is just add more of this chemical, or spray more of that chemical. Mike

[WindowOrMirror]

Well I'll tell you, if I had made the terms clear to someone and then they waited until I was over a barrel before talkin' with me, the LEAST that would happen to them is that I'd not do business with them again! They can't be the only people in the area that make hay. Give your 2/3 to someone who asks for it up front.

A "middleaged" tractor with live PTO will go ya $3000-$8000 around here, a small square baler with a working kicker $3000-$4000. Add a rake and 'bine or mower... another $3000-$5000. That's $15,000 to start up... 30 acres at decent yield, maybe 50 ton of hay? Two cuttings? 100 ton into smallies... 3,500 bales at $2 each... $7,000 per annum... that's two full years to get CLOSE to your equipment and you'll be working on needles and working like a dog too.

There's easier ways to make money!

R

[UncleD]

Alot depends on what you know. If you were very mechanically inclined, and could work on equipment, you could get by with alot less. $1500 for a tractor, $500 for a square baler, $400 for a rake, and $300 for a sickle bar mower. But, all of that equipment has to be worked on usually 3 or 4 times at least every season. And that's if you're lucky.

Most people who are not raised on a farm do not know how to work on this equipment, so they have to hire someone who knows how. And that gets costly, and you lose precious time during hay season.

To get equipment that you are less likely to have to work on, you are talking more in the $10,000 range for a tractor, $3000 for a baler, $800 rake, and $1000 sickle mower. And there is still no guarantee you will not have to work on it. Unless you have 40-60 acres of hay to put up, you can't really come out on buying your own equipment at those prices.

On the neighbor issue. 2/3 is about the going rate for custom baling around here. But I agree with WindowOrMirror, there must be someone else in the area that will do square bales for you. They may have the equipment, but are reluctant to bale small squares do to the labor of hauling them. You might see if they are willing to give you a price per bale to bale it for you.

[Jim S.]

There are all kinds of deals in hay. I USED TO have it done on thirds, til after a few years the fellas started asking me about quarters -- one quarter to me! Then I got to looking around, and found plenty of people willing to bale on halves. So now I'm halves on it. We left the square bales behind years ago -- to much labor that is hard to find around here -- and so all I do is pick up my half with the tractor fork.

I'd say if you are doing the manual labor, you ought to at least get half. That's the hardest part! How I did it was, I put an ad on the local radio station swap and shop. Free ad, and I had 8 calls that day from guys wanting to do it on halves. The first guy did it only one year, so I put the ad on again, and this guy I have now has done it two years on halves. I sell whatever is my half that I don't need for feed, and that funds my grain for winter. So I feed free.

[Scrounger]

Ok - dunno where you live, but here is what I have found around here. I have a 45 HP IH tractor (454) that I bought for $4000 with a loader. I searched for awhile and found a nice Dearborn rake that works excellent - $35. I helped a lady clean up around her place and she gave me a set of old running gear for free. I tore down a shed and used some of the 2x6 (and other) lumber for a bed. One hay rack for less then $10 and a little work. I found a decent Case mower for $50 and have been using it. Sickle bar mowers are still available for under $200, if you look. Get a belt driven one (pitmanless) if you can. A good used square baler can be found for under $400. Most people around here have switched to rounds, so the square balers sell reasonable. Check around for an IH 400/450 or they like. They will bale hay easily and usually aren't too expensive.

Point is - there are still good used equipment out there for cheap, if you are willing to do some digging. You don't have to go new, or even fancy to get the job done.

[fantasymaker]

The baler is the key. almost any tractor is plenty reliable for hay,ditto the rake and wagons which doesnt have a lot that can go wrong .Im not sure how old mine is but according to granddad useing it when he ws a kid it must be over 100 years . Mowers are simple conditioners are simple, mowerconditioners are a bit more complicated.
Balers are expencive because they do have a lot of relativly delicate and wear prone parts, you cant buy one thats too good!

[clovis]

I agree...to have terms dictated to me after the fact is no way to do business.

Did he happen to get into the field, and find out that the hay was marginal at best, and not producing like he had hoped? He has fixed costs, and the last time I checked, they weren't giving fuel or tractors away. Still should stick to your original deal, anyway.

I am with the others: used equipment is the way to go. I personally would stay away from junk balers, unless you get them for free. I would much rather buy a good used baler for $3500 than pay $1500 for a junk one that needs rebuilt. I am sure you get what I am saying.

Also, think about buying a owners manual or a service manual for your baler on ebay. It would be a great investment for $30....especially if your baler goes down when you are putting hay up.

Clove

[clovis]

BTW, in our county, $3 baled hay is selling faster than people can get it to market. Drought like conditions here this year....$5-6 hay is said to be the norm for this winter.

I also think you will see continued rising prices for hay, with record prices for grain, I think you will see more hay fields converted to corn/soybeans.

Clove

[FarmboyBill]

But it is true that I on;ly cut 15 acres some years. Ive been using my 1934 CC Case tractor, a steel wheeled JD 4 bar side rake, a 1960 W 40 engine bailer For a long time, and I guess I will be using it for as long as I am putting up small bales. I also use my1948 Cub to rake with, but it is slow.

[sammyd]

Wow, sure are some prices for equipment.
700 for a beautiful JD 24T. 550 for an Allis WD 350 for an old NI mower and I borrow a rake.
Bale it on the ground and hump it onto the truck. Since I don't have access to land near me I like loading a truck, feels safer than dragging a loaded wagon down the road and trying to see around the back when I want to turn left.
I would either start looking for a different farmer to work with or start looking at machinery. To have someone change the deal after the hay is cut is wrong. Doesn't matter what he was running, he made the deal and should have stuck by it.

[Jennifer L.]

Wow! No way would I ever deal with that person again! Get it cut and then start dictating what the new conditions are? He may be a neighbor, but he isn't a Neighbor! Around here it's all done on halves.

If you DO want to deal with him again, I'd simply hire him to do it. No mone shares with that character.

Jennifer

[Ross]

I'd happily bale on halves if you're helping with the hard work! You did what you had to and you're right never again, for anything should you deal with that guy.
You want a diesel tractor, which will run 3-5k for 50 hp minimum. Get a New Holland Haybine of some sort, Hesston as a second choice, Deere and the rest after that. Avoid anything too weird. A 479-488 NH can be had under 1000, a Hesston pt10 less than that. Massey rakes are fine, I have two, and a New Holland 256 rolabar rake. For a baler again New Holland pretty much any model, or a Deere, you might be in Freeman baler country, I never had one but they get top marks. Spend as much as you can on a good baler, this is making your product for sale. A $1500 NH 273 with $1500 in new parts should make perfect bales. Shop around there are sweetheart deals on excellent balers out there, but now is the time to buy all this equip. Wait and the price is less flexible.

[js2743]

as suggested dont buy a cheep baler a 400 dollar baler is junk, when you start baling hay and it has to be done when the temps are going to be hot. the last thing you will wanna be doing is looking back and every bale is busted because its not tying or its sheering bolts because its out of time. and trust me thats not fun work to be doing when the sun is beaming down on your cooked head.

[haypoint]

Your neighbor may not be a crook. What you have here is a classic lack of understanding because the terms weren’t spelled out. It’ll ruin friendships every time.
25 years ago, I had a neighbor with 10 acres of beautiful red clover. He didn’t have any livestock so was going to harvest the seed. I was looking for some quality hay for my horses. When I proposed having him bale it for me, he said he wanted $600 for the whole field and he thought there was about 30 ton of hay. $20 a ton is very cheap even if I had to pick it up from the field. He baled it and it made nice hay, about 9 ton. That pushes the cost to above $60 a ton. That was when excellent hay was going for around $50 a ton loaded in your barn. I figured I was getting less than a third of what he said I’d get, so thought $300 would be a bit more than what I thought we’d agreed to. He figured that the deal was $600 for the whole field. I sent him a check for $300 and it spoiled a neighborly relationship. If we’d been more clear and had it in writing, we could have seen each other’s viewpoint.

[goatsareus]

my take on this is that there was a misunderstanding right from the beginning. I can not imagine a farmer agreeing to 1/3 cut of the hay with 1/3 going to the other person for "lime and fertilizer".

We spent $10,000 for a MF 265, bought a used NH haybine, a vintage (1940's) JD 14T baler, a used rake and a fairly new tedder. Sorry we bought this stuff so long ago I do not remember the prices. I do know all the equipment has worked very well. Replaced the cutter bar one time in the haybine. Because we have so much vetch in the hay field, we must use a haybine and tedder. We feel we got by with the least amount of money at the time. We also feel we will never recoup our expenses. We only need about 400 square bales of hay a year, but we were finding we could not find anyone who cut hay with an eye toward the nutritional value, everyone was cutting for volume.

[Scrounger]

Prices seem to vary depending on where you are at. Around here $400 will get you a a good NH 273 Hayliner that isn't wore out. A friend bought an excellent JD 14T last February for $200 and baled over 3000 bales without a hitch this summer. Just look around - deals are out there. Just because it's cheap, doesn't make it junk.