fixin to get ugly w/ neighbors... advise please

[TxCloverAngel]

ok....

we started a small turkey business this year.
had 100 birds made it past the extremely fragile stupid bird phase.

Had them sold for $45 per bird for the Holiday season.

Labor day morning I went out to the pen and found 40 dead.... well slaughtered is a better word. None of my big turkeys were killed but my med (8-12lbs) were killed. Dogs had gotten into the turkey pen.

The prints were small dogs paw prints. I couldnt believe we didnt hear something!!
and our dogs (Great Danes in a pen on the other side of the house didnt raise any major fuss)

anyway... the ppl who live behind us have some daschunds and they are mean lil suckers! kids can't walk down there cause they will run out and bite em.

I have complained to these neighbors before because these little demon dogs chase my cows (yes, I know the cows are stupid to run from such little dogs lol)
and they have chased my chickens that free range.... I have always seen them more as a nuisance than a threat.

I knew these dogs had to be at least a part of the pack who got into the pen. (under the fence) But had no proof.

I called the sheriff and filed a report of killed livestock so there would be some record. Took pics and cleaned up a major mess.

It happened again 2 weeks later... they killed 22 more turkeys & 11 chickens) this time I heard them.. ran out w/ my shotgun... heard little yippy barks and they were gone before I could even see em little lone shoot em.

(we did put a hot wire up around the outside of the pen.... but these guys get under it) I also put a baby monitor out in the pen to warn me.

well they struck again at 2:30 this morning....

this time they killed my sons favorite rabbit (thru the pen hole for feed!!!) and 4 chickens + 2 guineas.

I saw them!!
But again... these little suckers are fast and its very dark.

Now.....
The sheriff told me that if I have proof it was their dogs I can take them to small claims court to try to get some $$ for the turkeys back.....

How and I gonna get proof?? they are smart little suckers!!
I have filed a report each time to be able to show a pattern and record of loss.

lets face it...
if someone came and told me dachshunds were killing their livestock I'd laugh at em!

Have put out a trap... didnt work.... (cept to catch my cat)

sat up all night more than once waiting to catch em w/ camera and gun. nope.


I don't want to start a feud... but this is lots of $$$ and work on our part....
I haven't been back down there to talk to them again cause every time I have gone before they did nothing.

and I want proof!!

They are breaking no criminal laws cause there is no leash law here... its a civil matter.

what would you do?

please keep in mind.. its me and 5 kids here... hubby is working out of town... and I do NOT have the $$ for motion sensitive cameras or surveillance cameras etc....

[Lilandra]

contact the local high school and see if there are any "geeks" that would be able to loan some equipment and time to solve this mystery. you might have to provide pizza and pop type thank you... but generally the kids would be happy to show off their know how and help out

sorry about your losses - we just lost half our flock to a family of coyotes... first time attack in 5 years... gonna be the last too - everything is secured tighter than fort knox now :-)

[YuccaFlatsRanch]

Lets see - bait made from hamburger and Blue Streak Fly Bait from Tractor supply will kill whatever eats the bait within minutes and usually within feet of where they ate the bait. Be ready to keep your dogs and cats and birds away from any of the bait you put out and be ready to SHOVEL AND SHUT UP. Its probably not legal to poison the dogs but..... Mopsy and Fluffy just won't come home tonight.

Be sure to pick up ALL of the poison every morning. My neighbor only puts it out in styrofoam bowls and he nails or staples the bowls to the ground or to the exposed roots of a tree or to a fence post.

This is exactly why I have LGD's for my sheep and goats.

[mike3367]

make your fences better, add a night time camera system, and forget getting into it with the neighbors. it wont do you any good and there dogs getting in your pens means you did not make them correctly. live and learn on this one and avoid all the drama you can is my 2 cents

[TxCloverAngel]

killing them will NOT be a problem.... I follow the SSS rule just fine.. but in order to file any civil charges I need proof it was them BEFORE the little darlings go to doggie heaven

[james dilley]

What About the Camera for your Computor?? And have it loading imiges to the drive???

[TxCloverAngel]

Originally Posted by james dilley

What About the Camera for your Computor?? And have it loading imiges to the drive???

hmmm that might work.... but will need a loooooong cord lol the pen is not right next to the house.
and more lights......

its a good thought.. keep em commin! thanks!

[TxCloverAngel]

Originally Posted by YuccaFlatsRanch

This is exactly why I have LGD's for my sheep and goats.

I have been looking for one round here.. and cant seem to find one.

[jen74145]

Doxies were bred to hunt... so not too surprising, really. They're tiny enough maybe a live trap or snare of some sort would do it, take pics of the prints in the mud... but it sounds to me that even once these are gone, your neighbors are the type to just bring home more children-chasing, stock killing dogs... I would think a sane person would immediately get rid of a dog that chased kids, no matter the size of the dog or whose children they were.

I think you might want to look into an LGD or two for long term protection... they'd probably pay their way pretty quickly, considering the gems you have next door.

[TxCloverAngel]

Originally Posted by mike3367

make your fences better, add a night time camera system, and forget getting into it with the neighbors. it wont do you any good and there dogs getting in your pens means you did not make them correctly. live and learn on this one and avoid all the drama you can is my 2 cents

they dug under RR ties around the bottom of the fence.... guess I need to burry the fence into the ground. I thought the fences were fine.. till this

[jen74145]

Posted at same time... maybe check with the Great Pyr Rescue in Houston, or here's another site I found...
http://www.shefaro.com/LGD/

I dunno, may be worth a bit of a drive to you.

[Scrounger]

A game camera will work great.
If you kill the dogs, the neighbors will probably get nasty, even if you follow the SSS rule.
When you fix you fence, bury chaqin link or heavy duty poultry netting about 4" below ground (chain link works best) and laying flat about 2 feet out from your fence. They will dig down, hit the chain link and not be able to dig under the fence.

[oldgaredneck]

Since you haven't been able to catch them "in the act", Lay chicken wire flat on the ground around the outside of your pen - hold it down or secure it with pieces of coat hanger bent into a "U" shape. I would use the 4 foot tall wire - laid flat will give you a 4 foot perimeter around the pen.
Hopefully stupid dogs will not figure out where the outside edge is.

[farminghandyman]

would a live animal trap work with some kind of bait in it, if you catch one in it you will have the proof,

[big rockpile]

Me I got Pictures and took neighbor to Court and won.And all it did was dig up my Garden.

But I also Sued for couple Guys that killed my Dogs and won too.

big rockpile

[Filas are Prima]

Many State Laws entitle the stock owner to double damages from the dog owner.
Have you taken plaster casts of the prints? Easy to do.
Make a wire snare trap in the daschund dig out spot under the rr tie. Snared carcass of their little savage is plenty proof. If you've filled it in, then wait for the next dig out, as they'll be back.
Check your State Statutes for your law that applies, and DO file in Small Claims Court, that too is easy to do.

[Goatguy]

I say put up the money for some night vision game cameras. I know they are pricey, but the cost would be worth it when you got to court. Killing livestock IS considered a felony, Small claims court will only award you up to $500 (in Michigan) But a felony goes to a federal court where you can sue for the exact amount of damage done, you can probably get them to pay for the camera as well... So you say 60 turkeys @ $45 a piece, plus one prize show bunny @ $50, 2-3 motion camera's $300, and 2 guinneas $70 = $3250. The damage IS the fault of the dog owners, NOT your fault for a possible faulty fence. I dont' believe in frivolous lawsuits, but in my opinion, this doesn't apply. Nieghbors like this will only learn if you hit them in the wallet. i am very sorry for your loss, but it shouldn't be your loss, it wasn't your fault, make it your neighbors loss. Buy the cameras.

[GrannyG]

The same thing happened to us, we live on a farm to market road, but are still within the city limits. Neighbors dogs killed 40 of our hens, maimed the cats, killed the baby geese, destroyed nests, and when we complained because they left their dogs loose, the city council told us we had to get rid of our livestock. I hired an attorney and they are in the wrong, but nothing is really settled, they are leaving us alone, i still have my animals, and the nasty neighbors moved. I did get some good suggestions, hit them with paint balls, SSS, or trap them in your yard.

[HilltopDaisy]

They've killed over 70 birds and your son's favorite rabbit? I'm sorry but I would be right up in that neighbors face, and I would leave no doubt in their minds that I was done being neighborly. I understand all about having better fences, etc., but it seems we just don't hold folks accountable for anything anymore. Why isn't the fact that you saw them this morning PROOF?

[Quiet Guy]

Could you borrow some coon sized box traps(havahart). Put them inside your wire and bait 'em. The dogs will eat the bait and you will be able to take a pic of them inside your fence.