Question?? this is going to be long

[Shadow]

Me and a friend have been going over and over what to do with our farms. Neither of us have family that are interested in homesteading. Its just too much work for most people. We have talked about just selling out enjoying the money of our years of work as this is what our kids will do after our deaths. Well he has come up with an idea.
He is planning to put his farm into a trust, selling the rights to subdivide it to some organiazion that sees that the land never gets divided up and has to stay as a farm or homestead and can not be divided into lots and split up. The Trusties pick out the people that live there, they have a life time use of the property, (same as us owners we just have the use of it while we are alive) then they people living have the right to pick the new owners at their passing, but the board of trusties have to approve them. Any major changes have to be approved, new buildings, major land use changes. The homesteader pays nothing for the land, he only has to keep it in good condition same as when he receives it , insured and leaves it in the same good condition when he leaves it. Of course this is all laid out in a rather long complete contract. Seems to me to be verry fair to everone and a good chance to homestead a place when the homesteader does not have a ton of money to do so. My firends place is huge mostly used for cattle and is in pasture. But part is farm land lots of bottom land and he does some tree farming. What do you think. Me and the wife both really would like to keep ours together for future generations and for some one to love as much as we do but with no family members that care are kinda hitting a rock wall. Same as the firend is. Oh the trust would build a home for the new homesteader that they would have for life. Yes there are restrictions, the land and all could not be used for anything illegal, the homesteader would have to keep the insurance and taxes paid. But with no payments that should not be that hard. What do you think it has us thinking and watching, if it works for him mabey it would for us. Or do anyof you have a idea.

[compier]

that is an awesome idea!
But make sure that contract is exactly how you want it though

[daytrader]

Why wory about the kids? I mean why? If they can and want to they will.

Do what you think is right for YOU. Not for your kids. You had to make it and they will as well.

Sell your land and spend it. Live your older life grand. Do it. If your kids give ya a problem tell them to go get their own.

Its nice to leave your children something, just what and how much? What is hard as your little farmer may find they are a great stock broker. So a farm is nothing but a problem to them.

How much? Who knows the number. I say just the right amount were they could not quit their jobs, yet they could take 2 months off the get the job they want.

My self, family isn't getting much of nothing. I am going to spend my lifes earnings on my self with my wife.

I am not going to leave them ANY property. No equipment. Just cash. They can do with it as they please.

A trust means maint fees. Some one has to over see that trust. Many times they will make out grand.

You want to see the worst thing you can leave folks. STUFF instead of money.

Have it all sold and dish out the cash. EVERYONE will be happy that way. Do not do any half ownerships and the likes. That is how you make families HATE each other.

Just sell it and dish out the cash in your will. There will be no problems this way. If they want the land they can buy it at the sell.

[Spinner]

What if there are several families living on the property, then a grandson or great grandson wants to farm it like you did? Does the family member take precedence? It would be hard to decide between homesteading strangers or a family member. That might happen somewhere down the road. Farming often skips a generation or two.

Lots of things to be considered. If you can get the details worked out, it sounds like it would be an excellent opportunity for homesteaders to live the good life and you to go to your reward knowing you did something good for future generations.

I would also look into getting a land patent on the property to ensure that it will never be condemned and taken for a new road or something in the future.

[daytrader]

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...8098/index.htm

[daytrader]

Its a great deal for the lawyers that will manage the trust. If its under 5 million in land. NO WAY IN THE WORLD would I seek out and set up a trust.

How much money are we talking about?

ALSO do not do a thing with out hired paid for lawyers. Folks YOU pay telling them what you want. They will give you the best modes to take. Just if its under 5 million. There is NOT ONE REASON to be in a trust.

[Shadow]

Looked at the the way his is set up and the trust board members are paid an hourly amount no attorneys, its reasonalble and if a member leaves for any reasion the new on is voted in by the others. simple and effecent. As for my children they have no interest and do not need whe money., Their mother has provided them with a life time trust that means they do not have to work unless they want to,. As for me and the wife selling out and spending it we are where we want to be doing what we want. We worked hard and set up retirement and realestate holdings that have provided well for us and will continue for both our lives. If I go first the wife draws my pension same as we both do now, and has the other investments to use as she wishes. She should have enough to find a good husband the next time. Worry about the children no, the family heirlooms were given out a couple of years ago. No grandchildren none of them ever maried too busy with their jobs and doing their thing. All are doing well in their carreers and are planning their retirments well in advance. One has already bought a retirement home in the city they want to retire in. Makes you really feel old.
Daytrader it is set up by attorneys, but not run by them, no attorneys on the board, hourly rate is figured out by using pay scales used by contractors doing state bidding. Total amount is several million if you count what the land is worth on todays market. divided up as farmettes. Mine probably not that big well I know its not but even mine has just been appraised for way more than someone could afford to homestead on it.
As for who would be next in line the homesteader would have the right to recomend his replacement and they would be considered first and if no problem, like criminal stuff they would be given the same options.
The contract is huge, covers everything I have been able to think of and seems fair to all.

[comfortablynumb]

you cant take it with you
and once your gone if others want to carve it up they will find a way.

sell it all and live out your limited lifespan they way YOU wanna.

you paid for it, and no one is going to give a rats patootie what you wanted after you croak.

[Hip_Shot_Hanna]

Originally Posted by comfortablynumb

you cant take it with you
and once your gone if others want to carve it up they will find a way.

sell it all and live out your limited lifespan they way YOU wanna.

you paid for it, and no one is going to give a rats patootie what you wanted after you croak.

I agree - honestly, why try to control what happens to something after you are gone? You'll never know what happened once you are gone.

[Rick]

Sounds like your heart is in a very good place, but my heart says you should still take advantage of selling and spending your inheritance!

Could you sell it with the deed stating it could never be divided up? There are some counties I have heard of that will actually pay you to stipulate this, and then each new owner is bound to not divide the land. The counties win by keeping development low, and more farm land survives!

Be Well,

Rick

[pcdreams]

My thoughts?

I Would consider putting it in some type of land conservation program, that would go into effect upon my death, With the stipulation that if the kids want to farm it, it could easily be removed (of course tax burden would be higher in that situation). You could also stipulate that it is not to be subdivided.. etc

This is what I plan to do. We have no children so I'd likely leave it to a state conservation agency.

[The Paw]

There are already established land trust programs that may be able to help you, depending on where you live.

In Wisconsin, the Wisconsln Land Conservancy includes working farms. Vermont has a very comprehensive land trust program to preserve farms which are threatened by urban expansion. In Vermont, the land trust organization may pay you a big chunk of cash to put such conditions on your land. Try googling the Vermont Housing and Conservation Board.

In the Ozarks they have the Ozarks Regional Land Trust which incorporates portions of three different states. Their emphasis is on ecological trusts with sustainable agriculture as a secondary consideration.

In Canada, there is the Southern Alberta Land Trust Society and the Genesis Land Conservancy.

I have access to a longer research report on the subject, if you are interested, just PM me.

[jessepona]

If you're mainly concerned about keeping the land together, and not having it turned into subdivisions you might try looking into local conservation land trusts. If you're wanting it to be farmed and worked on, then what you've already worked out sounds like a great idea!

[JHinCA]

Don't know where you are, but several states have an organization called Farm Link that helps young farmers find land to lease or buy from older farmers who have no heirs to take it on.

[RosewoodfarmVA]

Being a farmer, no way would I farm a property with those kinds of restrictions on it. FArming by nature is variable. By this I mean that what has worked for many years may not work tomorrow. For instance....If I decide that I need to install an irrigation system, I would need to build a pond, which most likely will be prohibited by the Trust because of how it destroys "natural wetland" and creekbed water flow. Now what if I decide that to accommodate a certain number of additional cows, I must clear a few more acres of land? Certainly the Trust would decide that there needs to be a balance of woods/cleared, and that clearing more land would not fit that. Also, many people during the depression lost their farms because they could not pay the taxes on them, and other bills that accumulated. If a farmer has 100 acres, shouldn't he have the flexibility to sell off 10 of them to pay pressing bills rather than losing the whole thing?

In other words, under your proposed system, the decision-making process would be held by a few trustees, where the financial aspects would be controlled by the farmer. The trustees have no way of raising money to pay the taxes, etc. and the farmer has no leeway to make changes to make higher income. I would predict that under those circumstances unless YOU have left enough CASH to pay the taxes for the next 100 years, sooner or later the farm will suffer bad years and will not pay for itself anymore and because the needed changes are hampered by the "trust" the taxes would default, and the govt will take it and sell it for back payments.

If it were mine, if your children show no interest in using it, I would search around and find a young farmer willing to spend the rest of his life on it, and offer to sell it to him. Probably you would have to reduce your price below the market value for "development" land, and offer a long payment schedule so that a farmer would be able to handle it. I would certainly make "no development" restrictions on the title for maybe 25 years. This way you can guarantee that it'll remain the same while you live. I would not however prohibit him from making changes to the farm or from selling a portion of it under dire circumstances. You never know what may happen and if he has a few bad years, as all farmers do, he may need to sell a few acres to maintain financial integrity until cash flow starts up again. Also, he may be able to cut the timber to raise the needed money.

My 2.c a "trust" will care more about the aesthetics and politics (EPA) than the practial use of the property, and as to letting people tend it...no one cares more for a farm than one who owns it and will spend the rest of his days there! I'm a 24 year old new (since I was 18) farmer who started with nothing, and while I already have my own farm, I know there are young farmers out there who would love to have the chance to purchase that farm, and as you probably know purchasing land and equipment is one of the hardest things for us new farmers to do!

Conservation easements have done incredible harm to farmers, who are no longer able to change the farm based on the present needs. This country was all woodland and brush when the settlers arrived. It took them 200 years to tame it. Let's not let it go back to unkempt brush with "wetland protection," "conservation easement," and "streambank erosion control"!!! FARM IT!!

[fantasymaker]

Take the best of both sell it with deed restrictions on it and then donate the deed restrictions to a conservation organisation to see that they are enforced. You get the cash value of the farm minus the hassle factor of he deed restrictions.

[pcdreams]

Originally Posted by RosewoodfarmVA

Being a farmer, no way would I farm a property with those kinds of restrictions on it. FArming by nature is variable. By this I mean that what has worked for many years may not work tomorrow. For instance....If I decide that I need to install an irrigation system, I would need to build a pond, which most likely will be prohibited by the Trust because of how it destroys "natural wetland" and creekbed water flow. Now what if I decide that to accommodate a certain number of additional cows, I must clear a few more acres of land? Certainly the Trust would decide that there needs to be a balance of woods/cleared, and that clearing more land would not fit that. Also, many people during the depression lost their farms because they could not pay the taxes on them, and other bills that accumulated. If a farmer has 100 acres, shouldn't he have the flexibility to sell off 10 of them to pay pressing bills rather than losing the whole thing?

In other words, under your proposed system, the decision-making process would be held by a few trustees, where the financial aspects would be controlled by the farmer. The trustees have no way of raising money to pay the taxes, etc. and the farmer has no leeway to make changes to make higher income. I would predict that under those circumstances unless YOU have left enough CASH to pay the taxes for the next 100 years, sooner or later the farm will suffer bad years and will not pay for itself anymore and because the needed changes are hampered by the "trust" the taxes would default, and the govt will take it and sell it for back payments.

If it were mine, if your children show no interest in using it, I would search around and find a young farmer willing to spend the rest of his life on it, and offer to sell it to him. Probably you would have to reduce your price below the market value for "development" land, and offer a long payment schedule so that a farmer would be able to handle it. I would certainly make "no development" restrictions on the title for maybe 25 years. This way you can guarantee that it'll remain the same while you live. I would not however prohibit him from making changes to the farm or from selling a portion of it under dire circumstances. You never know what may happen and if he has a few bad years, as all farmers do, he may need to sell a few acres to maintain financial integrity until cash flow starts up again. Also, he may be able to cut the timber to raise the needed money.

My 2.c a "trust" will care more about the aesthetics and politics (EPA) than the practial use of the property, and as to letting people tend it...no one cares more for a farm than one who owns it and will spend the rest of his days there! I'm a 24 year old new (since I was 18) farmer who started with nothing, and while I already have my own farm, I know there are young farmers out there who would love to have the chance to purchase that farm, and as you probably know purchasing land and equipment is one of the hardest things for us new farmers to do!

Conservation easements have done incredible harm to farmers, who are no longer able to change the farm based on the present needs. This country was all woodland and brush when the settlers arrived. It took them 200 years to tame it. Let's not let it go back to unkempt brush with "wetland protection," "conservation easement," and "streambank erosion control"!!! FARM IT!!

I certainly would like to find someone who was willing to do this. VT has a program called "Beginning farmers" that sounds very similar to this. The only issue is they want you to have 3 yrs previous farm experience. Now If I could find some place to get that then I'd be set.

[piglady]

It sounds like you are saying you WANT to live out your days on your farm but not sure what becomes of it after you. If you want to be there, then stay there. I could sell my farm today and have a lot more money in my pocket with a lot less expense but I can't think of anywhere else I would want to be. Check out cabbage hill farm in NY. I think it was set up many generations ago so it will always be a farm. The city has grown around it yet the trust has kept it a farm. They have a board and hire farm employees to care for the animals. It's sort of a farm zoo or museum for the community. Maybe they could give you some ideas and great advice from someone with experience.

[Shadow]

Yes we will live here the rest of our lives. We do not need the money, have enough to keep us happy, fed, and in toys. Me have a few more years wife several, shes much younger. We have our favorite place, our if we could afford it we would live there place and have lived on it for 25 years. We are not going to leave it.
So forget selling and enjoying the money, that goes for us and the friends I started the article about.
Both us and the friends have extra houses on our farms, homes that could be lived in now by new familys but we do not want renters so we just keep them up and empty. If either of us decided we wanted to do this we have the places already to go. His is set up better than ours. But there is room for us to live out our lives while the new caretaker, farmer, homesteader, what ever you would call then gets going.
Biggest thing me and him are getting to the age where we can see the time we just can not work 10 hrs a day seven days a week. We will reach the point where we just can not take care of it. I personally would just like to have to take care of the five acres we keep in gardens and yard, where the shop, studio, house and material storage buildings are. The other 115 is just out there waiting for me to bushhog or what ever has to be done just to keep it at present levels. We have the equipment and its paid for newest tractor is three years old, 115 acres is enough to do a lot. There is about 50 acres open and the rest is in trees, we are smart enough to know you just can not make it row cropping a small farm, truck farming 10 acres you can make a living if you want to work harder than you ever would at any other job. We do not have any fence worth any thing but we never raised animals. What we have is usuable for most people starting out. The friend has 600 plus acres about half and half runs about 150 head of cattle raises his own hay thats a big operation and is a 7/24 operation and to buy the land and equipment and cattle to start up would be about 2.5 million. That is where he has a problem. There are few people starting out that can handle that size of operation. Still talking and needing ideas.