Building homestead with no septic...thoughts

[urbanfarmer]

I am thinking (or looking into) to put in a composing toilet, and have all my gray water (showers, dishwasher water, hand washing, etc. flow to my orchard.

I am not sure this will be legal everywhere, and I will check on that, but I want to know is this idea better or worse for the environment?

I am hoping for inputs from people who have done this or have not done this and their reasons....what did they learn that would help me.

Thanks in advance.

[big rockpile]

At my Cabin I put in a Composting Toilet.Going to run to run my Grey water into a Gravel Pit.

Some areas they have changed Regs to where your Dish water is considerd Black water.

big rockpile

[YoungOne]

After I looked at what goes into the "gray water tank" I decided against it because the chemicals used in dish washing, cleanning toilets, even showering would then be getting into the ground, and possible into the food. Several places allow for effluent to be used post treatment. My plan is to place a holding tank between the septic system and the drain field so that I can turn on a pump and water with post treatment effluent. This is still pretty dirty and doesn't remove everything but if you were to run it through an oxygen mixer and a UV filter it would be pretty clean.

[Dixielee]

We have a very nice homestead and have been there 7 years. We have no septic. We have a gray water pond that receives water from the tub and sink. It is loaded with wildlife and very healthy. I watched a huge crane walking thru the pond one morning and watched him "fish" for his breakfast.

We use a sawdust toilet in the bathroom. My husband built a very nice wooden encasement for it. It is stained a nice walnut, has brass hinges, and a "tank" for the sawdust. When you finish doing your business, you lift the nice wooden toilet seat, and sprinkle a generous scoop over the top. Every day or so, depending on volume, it gets taken to the compost heap, where it sits for well over a year before being used on the garden.

Believe me, this compost bin is HOT! It eats up anything we put on it in in no time. We have 3 bins, all made with wooden pallets. We fill one bin, then move on to the next and the next. By the time we fill the last one, we have used up the oldest one.

We also put all our kitchen scraps that don't go to the chickens into it.

Every now and then you have to replace the plastic bucket. If you put sawdust in the bottom before you use it, and use the sawdust (or wood shavings) religiously, and empty it regularly, there will be no odor.

We took out the "regular" toilet and replaced it with the wooden one. It does not look out of place and is "tastefully" done.

We are a long way from the well, have wonderfully good water and feel that we are not wasting anything.

The "Humanure" book is a great inspiration if you are considering this.

[Helena]

I "suppose" you could ask your township about their regulations on this idea. I don't see any problem. If anything should ever go wrong with our septic I would not hesitate to put in a compost toilet. Have friends that have them for full time use and have never had any complaints and also known of a fella' that has 3 apartments and uses the compost toilets with no problems and very little clean out of them. Did meet a women that lives off the grid and she did tell me that when she does have a lot of company she will get a "smell"..but no big deal. She also said that when it is just her alone at her place she will "pee" in a separate container and not into the compost toilet. Hmmmm....good luck !!

[goatsareus]

Our first homestead had no septic system. First we used an outhouse then we built an indoor composting toilet.

The only problem was in selling the place. No bank would place a loan on a property with no septic.

[urbanfarmer]

Originally Posted by YoungOne

After I looked at what goes into the "gray water tank" I decided against it because the chemicals used in dish washing, cleanning toilets, even showering would then be getting into the ground, and possible into the food.

What about if you (and I) are very careful to use only bio-degradable or natural soaps and liquids? Then would the gray water be safer for what I plan to do?

[YoungOne]

Originally Posted by urbanfarmer

What about if you (and I) are very careful to use only bio-degradable or natural soaps and liquids? Then would the gray water be safer for what I plan to do?

I would think so as far as safe goes, but what about the rest. Here is a small test. let a bar of soap disolve into a five gallon bucket then splash it on the ground. As biodegradable goes probably not to bad but a film will be left when it dries and unless you use a movable discharge point (like a hose) were the water discharges will get pretty well covered in that film as the soaps and other stuff will settle quickly once it is running across the ground.

[Jim S.]

My house was plumbed in the 50s so the washer gray water drains out into the back yard. The toilet water and bathtub water goes to the septic. The kitchen sink gray water runs into a "french drain" setup.

Of these 3 systems used, the washer system has been most trouble-free. If you can run your washer water to dump out in a garden spot, you will have the best of both worlds. Mine waters a huge pecan tree.

The french drain setup is prone to clogging over time. I have made a sort of small septic tank for it, as a grease and hair catchment, and that has helped, but I did have to replumb some of the in-ground work. The septic has plugged near the tank at the drain field pipe, due to shoddy installation of a flex pipe some years after installation. The fields were pristine. I replaced that section properly, good to go.

Many older farmhouses here drain their kitchen sinks and sometimes all sinks and tubs to an open pipe that runs into a pasture.

All that said, were I to build, I would NOT consider not installing a septic system for at least the toilet and tub water. The reason is because if you don't now, and you want to later, it will cost you far more to do it then than to plumb for it now. At least plumb the house for it, so the infrastructure is there to add it later if you want.

[Shinsan]

Composting toilets, if constructed and maintained properly, are an intelligent choice. In Australia now, we have several commercial, (and plans for home built types), that are approved by the E.P.A. and State Health Departments.

Grey water is best treated by having a reed pond, either one large one or perhaps a series of small ones, that allows the water to trickle through. I've seen one set-up that used a series of old bath-tubs, about eight of them from memory. The water coming from the last one was clean enough to drink, but of course was only used for the garden. The owner said that she was going to recycle some of that water back to the laundry. If you do decide to go with a flush toilet and a septic tank system, the recycled grey water can be used to fill the toilet's cistern.

[Spinner]

If you use vinegar, soda, and other natural cleaners instead of chemicals, then filter the water before it goes to the garden/orchard, then it should be fine. My kitchen sink drains to my flower beds and the flowers grow real well with no other watering. The only thing that goes to the septic tank is the toilets. Everything else drains to flower beds or to a pit filled with rocks. The grass over the pit is always green, even in the worst drought conditions. I've been thinking about building a couple of raised beds over it to grow asparagus, garlic, onions, etc. Maybe even build a portable "greenhouse" cover to set over the beds in the winter to see how long I can keep salad veggies going.

[Wisconsin Ann]

WARNING: some counties do NOT recognize composting toilets. Check with your local planning folks.

Where we built our homestead, we had 2 choices. 1:regular septic system. 2it toilet. If we want a composting toilet, we have to have at LEAST an inspected and okay'd pit toilet. To have a pit toilet, we can NOT have running water to the "building" that it's near.

yah. strange. but true. Surprised the heck out of us, but there ya go.

We built a pit toilet to service the 40x80 pole barn (first building on the land) and then put a composting toilet(envirolet) IN the outhouse The Envirolet will move indoors once it starts to get cold out. The barn has quasi running water...we fill large tanks on the second floor, and the sink, shower, etc. are on the main floor.

Grey water in this county of Wisconsin needs to be run through a "french drain" sort of thing. And has to be X number of feet from any well system.

Enviromentally....I'd think a lot depends on your soil type, water table level, types of things IN your greywater. I've known a number of people who run grey water to orchards or large tree areas and everything is fine. soil tests come back healthy, and the trees flourish.

[donsgal]

Originally Posted by urbanfarmer

I am thinking (or looking into) to put in a composing toilet, and have all my gray water (showers, dishwasher water, hand washing, etc. flow to my orchard.

I am not sure this will be legal everywhere, and I will check on that, but I want to know is this idea better or worse for the environment?

I am hoping for inputs from people who have done this or have not done this and their reasons....what did they learn that would help me.

Thanks in advance.

State laws differ and generally you can "work around them" vis a vis grey water. Where I live in Stone County, MO, you can use a composting (or in my cast sawdust) toilet but you must install a water treatment system (i.e. septic tank and leech lines) for grey water disposal. The Missouri statutes state that if you have three acres or more you do not need to do this, but each county and municpality has the right to make requirements more strict, as they have done in Stone County (and Christian County and others).

However. Even if they force you to install it, they cannot force you to use it. We are going to install the required septic system but we are going to recycle our grey water by putting in a natural filtering system and using the resulting water for our orchard and garden. The only problem I can see is disposing of grey water in the winter time because of the freezing issue. Depending on where you live this could be a problem. Here in SW MO it is only a concern in January and February, when temps are really low.

It is my opinion that composting human waste and disposing of grey water in a more natural way is much better for the envrionment. YMMV

donsgal

[WayneR]

www.compostingtoilet.org

www.jenkinspublishing.com/sawdustoilet.html

[Dixielee]

Since we replaced the regular toilet with a sawdust toilet, we had limited space between the tub and the vanity. Ours is like the nice wooden ones in the link pictures, but there is a "tank" built onto the back of it to hold the sawdust. It has a hinged lid with a 4 cup plastic measuring cup in it so you always have the sawdust easily available and it doesn't use any extra floor space.

In the Humanure book he mentions the option of the 2 bucket toilet so you don't have to head to the compost bin as often. I prefer the one bucket, so it is always relatively "fresh" and doesn't have a chance to smell. Plus, they can get pretty heavy if you let them fill up. It is much easier to empty if only about half full. You really don't want to trip, spill and fall into it!

[edcopp]

What you suggest works just fine (from my experience for the last 19 years).

Composting toilets are great. I use a sawdust toilet (Jenkins Type). Clean compost rather quickly with little smell. As for the grey water we send ours directly to the garden. We are very careful about what kinds of soaps that we use. If we ever have a problem I will post it.

As for legal or not I would suggest ignoring the authorities, they just don't get it most of the time. If someone would complain about your system, you might ask "what system'?

I believe that if I keep my sewerage on my place and use it again rather than flush it to who knows where, that I have done a service to mankind. I have reduced pollution and also done a favor for the guy who gets his drinking water douwstream.

[Cabin Fever]

Now listen. Whether you have a septic system, or a composting toliet and grey water system, IT ALL GOES IN THE GROUND!! Now here's the scoop, the closer you put the waste to the surface of the ground, the better it is for the environment. Why is that you ask? Near the surface is where the pathogens die off faster due to light and the influence of cold and heat fluctuations. And, near the surface is where the nutrients in your wastewater will be taken up by plants.

In a septic system, nutrients are for the most part not used. The nutrients, especially nitrogen, move downward to groundwater. Pathogens in discharged from a septic system will be reduced as they move through the soil. The sludge, or septage, from a septic system will be eventually pumped out and applied to land.

With a composting toliet, the pathogens should be reduced or eliminated if the composting occurs at high temps. The nutrients will be used by plants if the compost is applied at the surface of the soil (or incorporated near the surface). Likewise, the nutrients in the greywater can be used by vegetation if the greywater is used in gardens or flower beds.

[urbanfarmer]

Thanks to everyone.

When I come to HT and post a question, I always get a lot of good information. Everyone is so helpful on here. I feel guilty because I never know anything to share back as I am not an expert on anything.

[shellrow]

Originally Posted by Spinner

If you use vinegar, soda, and other natural cleaners instead of chemicals, then filter the water before it goes to the garden/orchard, then it should be fine. My kitchen sink drains to my flower beds and the flowers grow real well with no other watering. The only thing that goes to the septic tank is the toilets. Everything else drains to flower beds or to a pit filled with rocks. The grass over the pit is always green, even in the worst drought conditions. I've been thinking about building a couple of raised beds over it to grow asparagus, garlic, onions, etc. Maybe even build a portable "greenhouse" cover to set over the beds in the winter to see how long I can keep salad veggies going.

That sounds like a great system. The house I live in now is a rental and the drain from the kitchen sink and the washing machine goes into the field behind the house. The county required a septic for the bath/toilets. Once I get my own place I would like to set up a system such as yours. Did you use any specific guide/book/instructions when you built your system?
I really like the idea about the raised beds and the portable greenhouse! You will have to let us know how it goes if you ever try it.

[DQ]

I have looked into using a constructed wetland. I love the idea, DH nixed it though.its too out of the ordinary for him. its seems to me, that if constructed well, and maintained it would serve beautifully, literally.....very pretty. apparently it is in use in some areas as municapal water treatment systems, although success is varied.
http://cobweb.ecn.purdue.edu/~epados/septics/cwdiag.htm