Logging Questions??

[Old John]

Hi Y'all,

We need a culvert replaced as well as a few other updates around the place.
We've had estimates on the culvert at around 3 to $4000.
A couple thousand more, would tidy the rest of it up.

We have a lot of mature Hardwood trees on the place, walnut, cherry,
poplar & such. We do have some old Sycamores that are 80' tall.
But they are soft wood. Not good for anything but pulpwood.
And, we only want to cut a few hardwoods.
We do not want to "Log-out" the place.
We value our Trees.

So, what ought we to do?
Should we just call a couple Hardwood Buyers/Loggers and
get an estimate, from each of them?
Will they generally come out to Cut a few, 10 or less, Trees?
Or do we have to have a Bunch of Trees to make it worthwhile?

Will they leave a bunch of tops & branches, for me to clean up?
Will they destroy the rest of the Woods, to get out a few good Trees?
Is this going to be worthwhile to us?

Thanks, for any assistance Y'all can give me.
I already called the County Extension agent. And, they said the won't
come out to give me any kind of estimate.
A Commercial Forester is going to charge us. And we do not want to
Lay out dollars. We just want to make a few.
Thanks again.

[Stephen in SOKY]

Here in KY the State Forestry Service would provide the services you need free. They're objective about which trees are mature & need to go thereby opening up canopy for other trees to grow, etc. Rather than County extension services, you might want to try on the State level. Yes, the loggers will leave lap (Tops/limbs) all over. Consider the time of year to minimize forest floor damage due to wet weather ruts etc. Many loggers will cut a few hoping to be able to return in the future for a larger cut. In my experience, the last cut they'll not care much about damage.

[wdchuck]

Have an independant professional come through and grade your standing timber, and educate you on which trees should be left to provide best quality reforest stock, grade lumber, and firewood, then you will know what to expect. You stated that you don't want to spend any money, well the loggers will be happy to undercut the value due to your ignorance, and most won't come out for a few sticks.

Trees under 18" at breast hieght won't hold much value either. If you score a couple veneer grade trees in your stand, that's where the money will be. Otherwise, firewood can often get you more money out of a tree, and cull the worst trees out of your woodlot, beneficial all around, but it means some work and not getting the money until the wood is seasoned enough to sell.

Good luck with this.

[MELOC]

if you have really nice walnut and cherry, you may convince someone to cut it. do some research online to get an idea of the market prices for timber in your region. that info is not solid gold as a logger will pay what he pays, but you will get an idea of the current market trends for certain things and be better prepared to haggle or to know if you are getting hosed. depending on the condition of the walnut and cherry, you could be talking about 5 to 10 times the price of something more common like poplar.

[MELOC]

oh...and don't be in a hurry. you may have to postpone the projects you plan unitl next year as the process of marking, measuring and cutting timber can take a very long time, especially if your parcel is not the most attractive cut in the logger's schedule.

[EDDIE BUCK]

You might find someone with a portable sawmill that would come, cut and saw on halves. Just a thought.

[Hoop]

Take your time. Most people spend less time on research for logging their property.....than they do for purchasing a new(er) vehicle.

The money is in the veneer grade. Run of the mill trees have little worth. Veneer grade trees may generally only be harvested once in a lifetime.

Foresters, especially private foresters, can be every bit as crooked as loggers. I've seen it. Often.

Educate yourself. Even if it takes a couple of years. Listen to word of mouth on who had good results with specific logging crews.
Visit the harvest sites when logging is occuring. Speak to the landowners during the logging operations and after they're completed.

Consider doing it yourself. Learn how to fall a tree, and cut the logs so that the highest grade is utilized.
Harvest the trees in winter, when there is no chance of staining taking place. Sort the high grade logs into separate piles. Then have log buyers give you price quotes. Nothing leaves your property until check is in your hand.
Doing things yourself means you have full control over which trees are harvested, rutting of the terrain, disposal of slash, and selling the logs.

Or you can roll the dice.....and see what happens.

[horsefarmer]

Go to theforestryforum.com and find someone close to help you. Walnuts aren't worth as much as most landowners believe. I don't deal in veneer quality trees as I can't get the best price for landowners but I do go through and show them which trees have the potential to be veneer and then take out the seconds that will provide the necessary space for it. Some loggers will clean up their mess. Most won't without additional fees. Trees can be mechanically harvested and brought out without tearing up your land but some evidence will almost certainly be left, even by horse loggers.

Don't sell your sycamores as junk or think they are not worth anything. Great big one are nearly always hollow but if not, they can be quartersawn and dyed to make a very good walnut imitation. It is the wood often used in butcher blocks.

[sugarbush]

logger will not touch small MBF cuts. Doesn't pay to move equipment for less than 50k or so, and the standard price is 60% of delivered value, which does not leave the landowner with much on a few trees. Your best bet would to be find a horse logger or cut and haul it yourself. You would have to check your state laws if you plan to do it yourself, here in Kentucky you have to be a certified Master Logger to cut trees for sale. There is also federal guidelines regarding water runoff and erosion that must be followed. You can scale your trees yourself with a tree scale stick and then call around to your local log yards to see what the current going rate is.

[drewjunr]

We had a logger take down a lot of our pines and leave the oaks. After a 1/2 week of them running over oaks to get to the pines instead of just going around them I confronted them and they pulled up stakes, paid us and left. They left the tops, stumps and branches to be cleaned up. Also where their machinery got stuck sloppy mud pits to fill in. The money was ok but the cleanup was a pain. Would I do it again...I probably would instead of cutting and burning them.

[sidepasser]

I log out my own trees with Molly, my draft. Takes longer but doesn't leave as big a mess and I can control where the trees are felled.

Last time someone logged on my neighbor's property, they also crossed the property line, took out some of my trees and left a huge mess on both properties. The old man said he'd pay me for the trees, but I felt that he got rooked and it wasn't his fault either..(we were very good neighbors) and he later died. But I learned alot about being very careful about who I allowed to cut trees on my land and one last thing:

don't hire Anyone who is not bonded and licensed...the pro's usually are. At least then, you have a bit of recourse if they come in a tear down fences, and make a general mess or allow your livestock to get out or mess up your creek.

Loggers do NOT have a good reputation around where I live, but they earned it.

[texican]

Most loggers are in the business to make money. That means getting the cut out and too the mill asap! If it takes more time to set up their equipment to start logging, than the logging itself, it's hardly worth their time. They're usually not in the cleaning up business. Asplundh does a lot of cleaning up logging around here, taking em out of peoples yards and fences... of course, they charge almost 1k to just come out.

If I had to cut em, I'd cut em myself... for myself. I wouldn't let dreams of sugar plums (the culvert work) cloud my vision. I'd personally buy the walnut from you, if you were close enough.... but, if I had to clean up all the mess, it'd be an even swap... take the timber for free, payment being cleaning up the mess. If someone were real finicky, I'd probably tell em upfront what 'cleaning' entailed, and what it didn't. If they wanted pristine, I'd either walk away, or tell them they'd have to pay extra.

I've got a logger that lives down the road, and trust him (while I'm watching him ). When he was thinning some of my pine plantation, I repeatedly told em go around every single oak or hardwood. I let em slide on a lot of cleaning up, knowing that the tops would safely rot where they fell. Now my plantation has areas with nice hardwoods starting to grow, since they have some sunlight. He told me his expenses upfront, and we agreed on a price. His trucks, skidders, loader, cutter, and chainsaws cost money. His 15 gallons of fluids a day cost money. His five employees cost money. At the end of most days, he was breaking even (everybody else wanted to be paid, no matter if the boss made money or not). Near the end of the logging, the price started dropping... when it got down to 5$/ton for me, we mutually agreed that it was a waste of timber cutting at that price.

In short, keep your eyes open, and hold onto your pocketbook... you'll be lucky if you're wallet gets fatter, without a mess of headaches.

[just_sawing]

You have had some good advise.
1. Don't get in a hurry to make changes/ It is easyer to cut tree and make a mess than to clean it up.
2. Hire some one if you have to to tell you what you have. I have to get on to my wife who after 15 years of sawing still can't hold a striaght face whenn someone honestly ask how many 2 X 6s they can get out of a log 5 1/2 " acrose.
3. Records records records. Keep track separtely of what you are spending in this adventure.
4 Break the mold. You stated you had 80 foot sycamores. They are worth 28 cents for ties and cut right the lager lumber quarter sawn will fetch over a dollar dried.
5 Look for nitch markets. I have been in a bind for logs at times that I would cut two trees to make an order.
6. What you think you know avout trees is probably wrong. I speack from personal experiance.

Now that I have stepped on toes I'll explain. Timber operates on a 30-40 year cycle. You cut a tree forty years from now you cut again. If you operate as most in a 6 month cycle you will loose, there is too much difference in the two to be compatiable. Here is what I suggest.
Take a previous persons suggestion and cut a couple of trees. Haul them to the log yard sell them asking for advise in how to maximize you profit. (Cut the first trees 8' 4" unless gum or sycamore then buck them at 9'
Set down with your money and look at what you got. (Don't Spend this money it is the seed money to start your venture.
Now look at the rtees that you have after you have completely cleaned up the twotrees that you cut. You are more educated now than most that have posted here no afence to any one but you have experiance in a small way of the whole bussiness.
Now stratigize how to make a better profit ratio.
Hopefully this will help and let me know what you run in to.
Roy