Amish and Sustainable Agriculture

[retiredbop]

I see the term sustainable agriculture bandied about a lot nowadays. When I was an impressionable teen (1970's) it was the "Back to the Land" movement and self-sufficiency. In the '80's it was all about Survivalism. Today it's about decluttering and simplifying your life. What I seem to see in common in all of them is the desire to reduce your personal dependancy upon outside resources.

Now, despite living right smack dab in the middle of many small Amish communities I haven't really talked to these folks yet. Maybe I should make that a priority? From what I've seen or read of them however, they seem to have the concept down pretty good. But I have a few questions.

Does anyone know if they use industrial fertilizers, pesticides, and such; or do they rely upon crop rotation and intelligent crop selection?

Are they using GE hybrid seed or do they rely upon heirloom varieties?

What about their livestock? I seem to see the standard Holstein dairy cattle, and some Black Angus beeves. Do they use any heritage breeds?

My fairy tale answers to all of those questions would be no, they rely on old-fashioned varieties and have a stronger link to their land than we do. After all, the same families have been farming the same land for literally hundreds of years, and it is still viable.

And if they truly are sustaining their agricultural way of life on the same land for multiple generations without adversely affecting the land, why haven't we wised up and learned from their example? It would seem to me that rather than sitting "on high" and looking down disparagingly upon the "simple people", there is a lot we could learn from them.

[Spinner]

I agree that there is a lot that we could learn a lot from them. The ones that lived near me 20 years ago saved seeds, but when the GMO carp contaminates their crops, it will be impossible for them to continue doing that. I wonder what will happen to them when that happens?

[swampgirl]

I think your last paragraph holds the answer. We need to learn from them & follow their examples. Many old farms around here have old equipment piled up & many have things such as manure spreaders, which are no longer used. They need to be resurected. My friend who grew up on a dairy farm says that as a young boy his job was to schovel the manure from around the milking barn onto the spreader. Now it is washed down with a pressure hose & chemicals to treat the odor. What a waste of valuble organic fertilizer.

[paintlady]

Some of them around here use Roundup and other herbicides on their crops. Some use organic methods. It seems that most of the ones we know try to keep to the more sustainable methods.
We also know some Hutterites. They use commmerical herbicides and insecticides on the vegetables they grow for sale at the farmer's markets but they told us that they use organic methods for the food they grow for their own consumption.

[bill not in oh]

For the most part the Amish folks I've been around and become acquainted with are pretty astute about their crafts, including farming. One general misconception of the Amish is that they are locked into the 16th century. Many of them indeed live their lives based on age old traditions, but when it comes to their livelihood they are often very modern in their thinking and working. Some do use chemicals, but usually much more judiciously than other commercial farmers, and they rarely (I don't personally know of any instance) use any commercial fertilizers. They are generally excellent soil farmers - which is what sustainable farming is all about. If you manage your soil well, it will provide the basic ingredient for crops. You simply manage a hay field differently than a produce field; and they do know which cover crops to plant where to build the soil for different cash crops, which order to rotate crops and livestock and I think very importantly what they can produce that they can sell at enough of a premium to make it all work. They usually give the impression of being of rather modest means, but they are able to live so frugally that the money they do get from their efforts they pretty much are able to 'bank'. I've seen Amish men pull a roll of C-notes out of their pockets at farm or livestock auctions that would literally choke a cow... And that's part of the mix for the Amish (and similar) communities. They can live literally off the land so efficiently that they don't need the mind-numbing economies of scale that commercial farmers employ.

So, yes there's much to be learned from the Amish folks about farming, but I believe that there's more to be learned from them about living to farm....

[tooltime]

I live among a settlement of Old Order Amish, and they use limited fertilizer and some chemicals on their crops.

I don't see much sustainable about their agriculture: they moldboard plow all their land, plow right up and down steep hills (haven't seen much strip cropping except for a couple farms) and don't leave much in the way of waterways.

You should have seen the cheese plant they built here: had several hundred thousand dollars (if not over a million) sunk into it once they got done rebuilding it from all their screw-ups (side walls too low, poured the floors without enough pitch for proper drainage, concrete block interior walls that had to be cut through to run the electric and piping), and then they couldn't find a market for their cheese. The operation went belly-up and took down a few Amish farmers with it.

Granted, some are top-notch farmers and their crops look good. Most of the Amish families have at least some boys work off the farm; there are some real good carpenters and furniture makers among them, and some have gardens most folks would be envious of.

As for farmers, I sure don't think they are any better than the English farmers. Some are good operators, some aren't.

I've seen several English farmers walk around with a big roll of bills, which I usually take to mean they want to steer clear of banking. One such guy always carries lots of cash around and he's stiffed just about every business in town.

You can learn a great deal from ANY successful farmer, Amish or English.

[Spinner]

Originally Posted by swampgirl

I think your last paragraph holds the answer. We need to learn from them & follow their examples. Many old farms around here have old equipment piled up & many have things such as manure spreaders, which are no longer used. They need to be resurrected. My friend who grew up on a dairy farm says that as a young boy his job was to shovel the manure from around the milking barn onto the spreader. Now it is washed down with a pressure hose & chemicals to treat the odor. What a waste of valuable organic fertilizer.

Unless it's an organic farm, the manure is probably loaded with the chemicals that are put into the cows via medicated feed, and vet care. I wouldn't want any manure from a commercial dairy on my garden. I don't have anything against manure, I use a lot of it from the pasture raised cattle that roam my pasture, but I know they are chemical free.

[Windy in Kansas]

Originally Posted by Spinner

The ones that lived near me 20 years ago saved seeds, but when the GMO carp contaminates their crops, it will be impossible for them to continue doing that.

WHY? Wouldn't it depend upon what the genetic modifications were for? If a crop is modified to add folic acid, or iron, why could they not continue to save and use seed? Granted according to your thoughts it would be modified however.

[MaineFarmMom]

Originally Posted by Windy in Kansas

WHY? Wouldn't it depend upon what the genetic modifications were for? If a crop is modified to add folic acid, or iron, why could they not continue to save and use seed? Granted according to your thoughts it would be modified however.

Farmers can't legally save and use GE seed.

[Windy in Kansas]

Originally Posted by MaineFarmMom

Farmers can't legally save and use GE seed.

That's a good enough reason for me. Of course they would have to find out that their seed was genetically modified before they would need to worry or comply.

[willow_girl]

My friend who grew up on a dairy farm says that as a young boy his job was to schovel the manure from around the milking barn onto the spreader. Now it is washed down with a pressure hose & chemicals to treat the odor. What a waste of valuble organic fertilizer.

Relax, Swampgirl! That manure doesn't magically disappear ... LOL

It goes into a manure pit -- sorta like a big holding tank -- and gets pumped out later and spread onto the fields.