need help/advice with electrical

[DQ]

Our lateral lines are shot and our place barely perks if at all, so we cannot replace them legally.we are going to have an aerobi system installed. The catch is our breaker box is outdated and no one will install and aerobi system until we replace it. estimates for that have ranged from $2000-$2500. egad! my dh has some experience with basic electrical installation, ie new outlets, putting in new lights and fans etc... is there any reason we couldn't do the box ourselves? what makes it so technical. as far as we can see its just disconnecting the power (flipping a switch at the pole) testing to make sure its all off (we have a multi meter) and disconecting and labeling all the wires and recconecting to the new box. am I missing something here? we haven't got to the feasibility of installing the aerobi sytem ourselves. one thing at a time! I'm sure hate doing dishes outside and hauling clothes with me to wash wherever I go! thanks for any help or suggestions, even if its just "let the pros do it", at least I would feel like we tried.

[moopups]

Being able to stop the power flow before the circuit box makes this very simple to do. Just make sure you label each wire as to the amps that it currently gets. If something is not understood there are books at the big box stores, or on line even.

And what is aerobi? I looked it up and found exercise equipment, games, flying disc toys, ect.

[DQ]

thanks! I think aerobi is the brand of septic systems they sell here. aerobic sytem is probably the more technical term, probably has different names in other part of the country too. basically a water treatment system that eventually sprays the water out through a sprinkler system.there is, from my understanding, a "bubbler" in the tank, hence the term aerobic= having molecular oxygen present. I think the introduction of oxygen speeds the decompostion of the waste by helping the bacteria. I guess if you rigged up an excercise bike to the pump it could be an aerobic workout too!! ha ha

[rambler]

Generally an old system needs to be upgraded.

Do you understand the difference between a nuetral wire and a ground wire? And why they do need to be bonded at one location, but no other locations? Grounding your water pipes to the ground rods & all that?

Will you be upgrading the amps of your main box? Can you size the wire to see if the feed wires can handle that?

You are correct. Wiring is about how you describe it. Jst replace the components with new ones.

The difference between plumbing & wiring is that you generally can see the leaks in plumbing right away. Errors in plumbing that aren't immediatly visible tend to make a person/ floor wet, or wishing for more water or pressure. Nottoo life or building threatening.

With wiring, stray voltage, mis-wired ground wires, reversepolarity, under sized wires, and the like may not appear for a decade or more. But can be sitting there, waiting to kill or burn.

Wiring is basically simple, but there is a real thick code book set up with all the fine details of what to do to keep it safe for you now & into the future.

The main box is your cornerstone to build from, any problems there will follow everywhere.

Many locations do not allow you to work on the main feeds/ box install yourself.

It's all in the details.

My farm needed rewiring - was a 1950's overhead wire 60 amp main fuse for the _whole_ farm. Only $11,000 later, and I have 200 amp main, 100 amp to the house, 60 amp to 10 outbuildings, all underground. In the 2 years since I haven't gotten to upgrading a single thing, all this was just the backbone feed wires. So I joke the new yardlight & the one receptial they put in a machine shed cost me $5500 each.

But I'm happy with the deal.

--->Paul

[retire2$]

If you are just replacing the current panel with another of same amperage (ie 100 amp) you should not have any problems as moopups suggested. If you are planning to increase the amperage of the new panel (upgrading 100 amp panel to 200 amp) this may be a problem. I would suggest checking the gauge of the wire and then calling the electrical inspector (with a general question and not identifying yourself) or an electrician and asking what the maximum load the wire will carry. If you need to increase the service wire to meet your electrical needs it is best to call in a licensed electrician as some of the connections from the pole will involve "hot" work.

[watcher]

–long reply follows--

My instructions and safety precautions may seem a bit over the top but remember you are working with something that can kill people. I’m the same way with firearms safety. With electricity if you screw something up you can lose everything; your house, your life, your family. If you are not comfortable with that thought then stop reading, scrape up the money and hire a pro to do the job.

A few of warnings before we get started.

One, I’m not an electrician. Therefore take my advice as nothing more than some thing a stranger is telling you.

Two, screwing up your breaker box and/or wiring can 1) burn your house down, 2) kill you, 3) kill your family, 4) kill a power company employee. If you aren’t sure about something then don’t do it. Bite the bullet and call in a pro!

Three, never, never, NEVER replace a breaker or fuse with one rated for more amps than the old one. See two above.

First, turning off your power may not be as easy as “flipping a switch at the pole”. You may need to ‘pull your meter’. If you pull your meter w/o the power company’s OK there’s a good chance the power company to shut off your service. If you have a set up where there is an outside breaker box directly below your meter AND a breaker box in your house then flipping the main breaker will PROBABLY cut the power to your house. I say probably because breakers can fail and the guy who installed it might have screwed something up. Make sure the line to the house is dead before doing any thing else. If you don’t you can kill yourself.

Second, what makes wiring a house “so technical” is the fact that you have to know what you are doing when you match breakers to wire size and wire size to load. (See warnings #2 and #3 above) If you house is 30+ years ago most of your circuits are going to be small and therefore not able to handle today’s loads. Up grading the box can cause problems (warning #2 and #3)

Third, if your “lateral lines are shot” then you are going to need to rewire the entire house. Lots of money needed for that. As well as some technical knowledge. Replacing your breaker box will do nothing to help and may cause problems (warning #2 and #3).

Now I said all that to say this. . .Yes replacing a breaker box is fairly easy. If you take your time! All you need to do is look at your old box, count the number of circuits (if you can’t do this then you shouldn’t be trying to replace the old box) and note the size of the old breakers/fuses. Take this info to the store and buy a new box with at least as many circuits as you need and the right number of the correct sized breakers.

After you get home you cut the main power. Make sure the main power line to the breaker box is dead. Then check the make sure the main power to the box is dead. Next disconnect the incoming main power line and label the two ‘hot’ lines and the ground. If you don’t know which wire is which you shouldn’t be doing this. Next, one at a time you remove the wires from the old box and, using a sharpie and tape, label the wire with the amp rating on the old fuse/breaker (VERY IMPORTANT see warning #2) they were connected to. After everything is disconnected and pulled out of the old box you rip it out of the wall in put the new box in and connect the DEAD main power lines and trip the main breaker in the new box to off.

Then you take a break and get some rest because you don’t want to be tired when you start putting in the new breakers. Tire people make mistakes, mistakes burn down houses and/or kill people. (See warning #2 above)

After you are rested you very, very carefully take one wire and mate it up the correct sized breaker according to the amp rating you attached to the wire. You let that wire and breaker hang and do another wire. Repeat until all your wires have breakers hanging from them. Then if at all possible you have someone else check you work to make sure each breaker is the correct size (very important, see warning #2 and #3). After you have everything correct put the breakers in. Now check that all the breakers, including the main breaker, are in the ‘off’ position.

Go out to the power pole and turn the power on. Go into the house and check the box. Watch, listen and smell. At this point noise, bright lights and/or smoke coming from the new box would be signs that you have done something wrong. If nothing is wrong then flip the main breaker on. Watch, listen and smell. Then the breakers on one at a time and check to see if the circuit works. If it works ok skip the next paragraph.

If does not work, do the following. Flip the breaker off and back on and check again. If that didn’t fix the problem cut the main power pull the offending breaker out, turn it off and put it back. Restore the main power and turn it on and check it again. If you still don’t have power to the circuit cut the main power, remove the breaker from the box then put a different breaker on that circuit and try it again. Some times you get a bad breaker. Put it back and try again. If that didn’t fix the problem its time to call in a pro.

If the circuit works then go on to the next one. After they are all on and working put the face plate on the breaker box. Then stand back and admire your work.

****VERY IMPORTANT***
Let things run for a few hours and before you go to bed touch each breaker one at a time if one feels warm turn it off and call in a pro.

My instructions and safety precautions may seem a bit over the top but remember you are working with something that can kill people. If you screw something up you can lose everything; your house, your life, your family.

[Macybaby]

I think the lateral lines refer to the septic system, and that upgrade is what makes upgrading the electrical needed. Took me several reads to figure out how the post when from septic to electrical.


Our place has a main physical disconnect on the main pole for the incoming line. It's purpose is to physically seperate the farm from the transmission lines for running a generator. It's sure nice to have because flipping that kills the power from the top of the pole down. We've been able to do a lot because we can kill the power coming into the boxes for all the buildings.

We replaced the main panel in our house, and added a sub panel for the heat circuts (baseboard heat). Make sure everything is properly grounded, including the main panel. We discovered that someone had cut the grounding wire when they resided the house. We drove in three grounding rods and made sure they were hooked up properly.

Also, use dielectric grease for the aluminum wires. They will corrode without it.

We are also rewiring the entire house as we are gutting and fixing it up. Oldest section is 125 years old. Also have replaced all plumbing, including the septic.

What helped us most was reading lots and lots of information on the subject before starting. VoTech text books can be really good - they go into lots of detail.

Cathy

[Rocky Fields]

Hey.

For less money you could probably have a new seperate line brought in just for the septic.

RF

[DQ]

I didn't even think about that! I want power in my barn too, maybe I should just do that! although I'm not sure where to start... the power company?

[farminghandyman]

there is a good book out called "practical electrical wiring for residential farm and commercial", and it is updated ever 3 years and has the code updates reflected in it,

http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Elec.../dp/0971977917

some times copies of it that are jsut out of date, based on the 2002 code can be found on EBay cheap, but would be good to get one based on the 2005 code as the new 2008 is nearly out,

http://www.google.com/products?um=1&...d%20Industrial

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An aerobic septic system is a system that used an air pump to pump air in the effluent and uses oxygenated bacterias to process the sewage,
anaerobic is the normal (with out oxygen) and it takes a larger tank more holding time and is considered less desirable,

and depending on the type of system at times the effluent is used in a sprinkler system so the need of a drain field is minimized,
http://www.answers.com/topic/aerobic-treatment-system

http://www.affordableseptic.net/typesseptic.php

http://www.laundry-alternative.com/a...ic_systems.htm

http://www.toolbase.org/Technology-I...ater-treatment