Lets talk about administering shots/vets

[Pigeon Lady]

Just thought I'd put this out for discussion here. It's long but wanted to convey the whole story.

Do you administer shots to your livestock?

When I first got goats 10 years ago I mentioned to the breeder that I'd had the vet out to give them their shots.

"oh, you're crazy" she says "you can do it yourself much cheaper" So, ever afterwards I've always given the shots myself. If they got sick (rarely) I would call the local vet's office ( where we took the dogs and cats) and they were only too happy to show me how to give shots myself, offer advice, perform fecal tests etc. No problem.

We move here and I set up appointments for our (5) dogs to get their shots etc. thereby establishing a relationship with our local vet. She spayed our kittens, I've taken in fecal samples from the goats now and then just to be sure that I'm worming effectively. She's always chatty, I thought all was ok. Well 18 months later I called to ask her advice on something and the receptionist called back stating that the vet was very busy. She gave me the number to another vet. She is busy so I didn't think much of it.

Well, last week ( now into two years of using this vet.) I was in there with one of the dogs who needed his rabies shot. We were talking about horses. I have a rescue horse with the early signs of COPD and wanted to know if a particular medicine was available over the counter. Boy, it's like she'd been laying in wait to jump all over me!

"who gives the horses their shots?" she asked. " that's who would give you a prescription" I told her I ordered the shots from Jeffers and gave them myself.

Well, she went on a major rant "if you're going to give shots yourself then don't expect ANY vet to come out to your place at 2am to attend to an emergency... I wouldn't come out in the middle of the night, if you don't want to give me your business during the day why should I drag myself out at 2am to come out for an emergency, I have a life, and girl, the older I get the more I appreciate my free time..."

She went on further!

" and who gives your goats their shots?"

I said I did

"well, there you are, see, no vet's going to come out if you have an emergency with your goats..."

I can see her point, but it seems everyone I know gives shots to their own stock. And it's not like vets come out in an emergency for free. They get paid a hefty sum for it.

So what's everyone elses take on this?

What if the mechanic refused to replace your transmission because you change your own oil?

Just a thought,

Pauline

[MWG]

After paying the vet $160 to give rabies and CDT to 7 goats I started doing them myself. That was with me taking them to him and they never got out of the trailer. Just getting started with this farm life but I thought that was high...

Really is no big deal to give shots yourself, at least not yet. The hardest part I found was catching the 4 sheep. Who knew sheep were so fast?

The only thing I found out was that the state (that I am in, don't know about others) does not recognize rabies shots not given by a vet. So if my dog bites someone he will get put down (or quarantined, I have gotten two versions from two different vets).

[Irish Pixie]

I give my own 6 way vaccine, and rhino shots to the bred mares, the Vet does anything that needs a paper trail- Coggins, rabies and anything not available otc- West Nile. I haven't had a problem with my Vet because I give my own shots. That said, he recently turned 65 and is has been downsizing his practice over the last few years, it's a real bummer because I've known this man for over 25 year. This year he said he no longer wants to inseminate mares.. sigh. So, I have a new Vet (equine reproductive specialist) coming to breed back the mare that is now 6 days overdue. The dogs/cats will still go to the old Vet as he still has a full small animal practice.

I had never even heard of a petty Vet until an aquaintance told me a story about a local Vet practice- she used them for her dogs but had a another Vet (equine specialist) for her horses. She called to bring in her dog for something, not a real emergerency but something fairly urgent, and the Vet looked at her and said, "Oh, I heard I'm good enough for your dogs but not your horses." And, "I'll treat your dog this time but if you don't use us for all your animals you'll have to find another Vet." I was appalled, I had used this practice once I had them out for Coggins, WN, rabies and teeth floating on 3 horses because my regular Vet was sick. I liked the Vet but her husband is an absolute jerk that said quasi-inappropriate things to my then 13 yo daughter (and got upset when I told him to knock it off) and then charged me $450 for the visit, which should have been around $200. They haven't been on my farm since. What's up with these petty Vets?

Stacy

[cybercat]

Seems they are some vets that are full of themselves. Vets do not make that much money off of shots so that rant is pointless. Now if a vet does not have alot of business I can see where they might get a bit upset but really. Also not all vets can handle all animals. I would not take my farm stock to my dog breeding vet when that is her specialty. I mean she handle pot belly pigs that are pets but that is differnt. Now true many of us do not have a choise on vets so we need to work with them some. I am moving to an area where we have one close vet and they are not very busy. For those that do not know check out Goat World and their 911 section that is where you can find vets listed in your area.

Who has the time and money to load haul unload get into vet reload and take home these days with gas. I imagine that house calls have gone up also because of gas prices.

[arabian knight]

No there is much money made by the vets on giving shots BUT you can order those same shots cheaper then the vets can. Where the vets make most of the money is the farm call charge.
I have given ALL shots for years and years now I was even shown how by my VET~!!
I have gotten the WNV from the vets office and given it myself now you CAN ORDER WN over the net most of the catalogs sell it in 10 vial doses~!
But I have heard now some places do sell single shots very few but I have heard of some.
I can order the rabies vaccine on line and give that also myself. One time I even got to filled shots with the rabies vaccine from the vet and gave it to them myself.
Now I have backed off on the WNV with minis there has been many reactions to the vaccine more of a chance at a reaction then the disease itself.
And as far as coggins testing mine horses don't leave my property I do not have to get one and will not get the test. I have not had my horses tested for years now with that coggins test as that is just a snap shot in time and really does not tell much at all. but that is another story all together.
And I have sold and bought horses and really have even hauled horses around sometimes without any coggins being done. but that is for another time also.

[Jennifer L.]

Oh, yes they do make money off of those shots! Any vaccine or medication they use has a markup of at least 100%. To be fair, that's how they make most of their income so I don't begrudge them that when I take an animal to the vet, or get Rx meds from them. But when it comes to over the counter stuff that I can do myself, then that's different. My vet is very good. We were talking flea control and flea allergy problems this spring and she started in by telling me immediately what I can buy over the counter. She knows I don't have a lot of disposable income and have a lot of animals to take care of, so I thought that was really decent of her. She made it so I didn't have to ask.

Jennifer

[ovsfarm]

I love our current vet, but I had to go through a lot of "poodle" vets to find him! (To me, a poodle vet is someone who prefers to treat high dollar domestic pets or expensive breeding or show livestock--no offense to poodles.)

Our current guy is first and foremost a livestock vet. He realizes that we don't have a lot of money to pamper the old horses we adopted or the meat animals that we will be eating fairly soon anyway, or even the family pets who also have to perform a function and pull their own weight. He does charge a good sum for the farm call, but it involves two hours of his time to travel, plus gas and wear and tear on his vehicle. He told me he put 65,000 miles on his truck last year. He does the diagnosis and gives any meds that are tightly controlled substances. Everything else he shows me how to administer so that he doesn't have to charge me for doing it himself. He will let me come to his office to pick up a Rx med or if possible will call it in to a vet closer to me if time is of the essence. Last time we needed his help, one of the old horses started having pretty severe skin allergies. The vet volunteered to call in the Rx to the mail order place for me. I love that guy!

However, the down side can be serious. Back in the winter, the same mare all of a sudden started exhibiting severe respiratory distress. So much so that I called the vet in. He did the Dx and then showed me how to do her injections and left me with the meds. He explained how to insert the needle before attaching the syringe to be sure I was IM and not hitting a vein (the substance used would be lethal if injected directly into the blood stream). Everything was fine for one week and 6 days of the two week treatment cycle. On the LAST day of treatment, I inserted the needle, tried to aspirate, did everything just like I had been taught and had been doing. Then I injected the first syringe. When I took it off to put the second med in, blood came pouring out of the needle. I was terrified that I had killed the poor mare on the very last day of treatment! The story has a noneventful ending, thank God. Although I stood by her side and bawled for a good half hour, the mare was fine. Perhaps I just over reacted. But while I was standing there, wracked with guilt, I had time to think about whether my arrogance toward the profession of veterinary medicine (that I could do just as well with minimal training) and my penny pinching ways were to be the death of an animal entrusted to my care. Yes, I still do as much of my vet care as possible, but I do it with a new humility and the realization that I am taking an intentional risk. That is accepable to me with our free or low cost animals. But I doubt I would have the nerve to treat high dollar animals that we could not financially afford to lose.

Regarding any vet's antagonistic response to people medicating their own animals with OTC meds, it's their own darn fault. If they didn't start trying to make animal medical treatment cost as much as human medical treatment, we might not have to be seeking remedies elsewhere. I couldn't afford the $700 one week treatment for one of our animals, which if successful would leave her medically dependent on expensive maintenance drugs for the rest of her very limited and uncomfortable life. Sadly, we chose to have her put down. I am not like my dh's coworker who actually took a second mortgage out on her house to pay for her dog's cancer treatment--which gave the animal 6 more months of a life of severely limited quality.

IMnotsoHO, arrogant vets can stick it in their arrogant ears and continue to advertise for more poodle clients. I need a vet who is aware of and responsive to my economic reality.

[bergere]

Boy is that Vet blowing smoke.....

Old Farm... I gave all my own shots. Had no problems getting any of the 3 Vets out when I really needed them.
In fact they were soo busy they prefered the owners give their own shots if the owners knew how. Saved them time from their busy schedule.

Here I also give my own shots. ) have been for 25 years now, no matter where I live.)
Also changed Vets... because the last one could of killed my horse with her incompetence.
Not all Vets are good ones and sounds like the one you talked to isn't. I would look for another Vet.

[homebirtha]

My advice would be to find a livestock vet, not a small animal vet. At least around here, livestock vets expect you to give your own shots and administer meds. Several times, I have called her for something and she just leaves the Rx meds out for me to pick up and administer myself.

What does this vet think is going to happen when a goat needs a series of shots for treating something? Is she going to come out to your farm twice a day for five days? That's just stupid. She obviously doesn't know a whole lot about large animal vetting.

I can tell our small animal vet doesn't love the idea that I give our dogs and cats their vaccines, but he lives with it. I go to him for rabies shots and any major problems. I think small animal (aka pet) vets don't have a lot of clients who do any of their own vetting, so they might get upset. But a real livestock vet wouldn't be at all upset that you do your own shots.

[yankeeterrier]

I give all my own shots except for rabies since they have to be given by a vet to be recognized by the state in the event of a bite. I also breed and show. I am also a CVT so I am VERY comfortable with all types of injections.
I have never had issues with getting a vet out in an emergency. Sounds pretty petty to me.

Dianne

[painterswife]

Our vet comes out and does three horses and two dogs all at once. Yes we could do it ourselves.

We love our vet and find her very reasonable.

My dog had parvo. Less than 200.00 to save her. Would have cost me 7-800.00 where I used to live.

My oldest dog was at the vets over a weekend while we were away. We would have been putting her down with-in the next week.

The Vet stayed with her on a Saturday evening while she passed, calling me with updates. She then met me on Sunday so we could bury her. There were no charges for any of this service.

We will be moving out of the area in the near future. I am going to miss her and her great service.

[gccrook]

We do all our own shots, but I love my vet. She will come out any time, and she will sell me stuff that I can't get otherwise. Her prices are always fair. My DW called the vet this spring for a goat that was having trouble kidding, and the vet gave her advice over the phone while she drove out to our place on her day off. When she got there, my DW had already managed to pull the kid, and all was fine. The vet refused to charge for the call, and said she would charge when there is a real emergency. You can bet we do things for our vet, she is one of a kind.

[Jolly]

Money.

It all boils down to money. And I find it is mostly the newer vets that are most upset about folks doin' a lot of their own animal doctorin'.

I guess the same thing could be said on the human side of medicine, too.

In today's ag economy, if you can save a nickel, you have to save a nickel, because profits are slim enough. A good vet ought to understand this...

[Honorine]

Yup its money, figure this, most dogs or cats are healthy and only would have to go to the vet once a year for their shots and heartworm test, at my vet that would be-$32 exam fee, $25 Snap test for heartworm/lymes test, 7 way shot $15, Rabies $10, Heartworm meds $50, thats $132. Then there's the Lymes Vaccine, which is $25, then there's that Frontline stuff they try to sell you, $36, then of course there's Corona and Bordetella vaccines, which many vets push, about another $30. So it can easily be $150-200 for that once yearly visit, for just one dog, and now that the yearly vaccine is being challenged, well thats a lot of income that vets are losing. Its costs me $3.26 for a multi shot, $8.99 for a Lymes vaccine, and a ten dose vial of Rabies vaccine is about $12. I can buy a years worth of heartworm meds over the internet for $50, and there are a number of very good over the counter topical flea meds for about $10. While I've gotten into the habit of testing my dogs for Lymes, I have a $18 bottle of Doxycycline sitting here so that if one of my dogs does contract Lymes and collapse I can start treatment immediately. So your vet is losing money because your treating your own animals and is resentful about it, and had the poor manners to take it out on you. Find a vet with a better attitude.

[Maura]

Most people where I live give their own shots. I've had a vet hand me the needle and syringe and show me how to do it. Another vet, the same thing. They don't want to make a house call for shots. I think the small animal vets do enough business with dogs and cats, and the large animal vets do enough business with dairys, that they don't want to waste their time coming out to your place for a few shots. They also understand that this is an economicly depressed area, and are just happy that people are taking care of their animals.

[AnniesGoats]

We give our own shots. I cannot imagine a vet not making money off of shots. Our vet charges 10.00 for one CD&T shot for a goat. If the vet administered the shot, it would cost us $1200.00 for that shot alone, twice a year. They will come to the farm on an emergency basis, and they have. They recently sold a bottle of wormer to me for 10.00, and I wormed the new puppies myself. I guess I am lucky...and I hope it stays that way.

[rootsandwings]

3 vets:

First vet gave me heck for keeping the goats in a barn with a dirt floor and cobwebs in the rafters - told me they were going to die of respiratory disease, and oh, don't call after she gives birth if you're going to use the milk - I don't treat animals in the food chain.

Second vet used to be a farm vet, says he doesn't heal very fast anymore and won't do farm calls, but will treat anything *I* (140 lb middle aged woman) can lift onto his exam table. That would be the cat, the rabbits, and I suppose the chickens, although I can't see taking a chicken to a vet. Also the goat kids, but anything I can't do for them myself I'd prefer to use vet #3

Vet 3 is my new goat vet - will see pets, but specializes in the big stuff. So far (knock on wood) I've only used her for fair certificates. She doesn't seem to mind.

[DQ]

you definitly run in to more hostility from small animal vets, much better to use an livestock vet who....
1. knows that the animal has a purpose other than pet and if the cost of treatment outweighs the benefit that animal is likely to give than...
2. you can't just board your horse/goat/cow at there office so they can give the treatment, and transportation usually requires a little more than a cat carrier and is more risky for the animal.
3. most people have one or two dogs or cats, not 50 goats/horses/cows to treat. thats not 1 vaccination thats 50!

that being said my small animal vet is helpful. when i needed treat a 20lb goat for cocci. he told me if I needed a scrip for it at the feed store he would give it. 1.39 bolus at the feedstore compared to the 15 dollar treatment from him. I knew I didn't need it but was thankful for the offer. he did the fecal for 12 bucks for me.

[agmantoo]

My vet's wife has saved me a lot of money. They live nearby and I had a small problem so I "dropped by" and asked to speak to the vet in order to get his opinion of whether he should come to the farm. She promptly told me that he was in the house and was too busy to see me as it was his day off. I thanked her and left. Within days their 2 daughters were riding their horses as usual, without permission, on my farm ( they only have a few acres) and I stopped the girls and asked them since they did not have permission to please ride on their place. The vet shows up within an hour and asks what the problem is? My answer " there is no problem since the girls leftwhen asked and I am certain that your wife can understand being neighborly, ask her!" . Following the attitude rendered during this incident I decided to either treat my animals myself or put them down. Other than buying wormer and fly repellent I have not had any major expenses and I have only lost 1 heifer to an unknow cause. I did put down one paralized cow. The avoided vet fees would have been far more significant than the loses I have encountered.

[Liese]

Well Pauline, if I were in that same position I would first write a note to that Vet with just that question and then I would be looking about for a new vet(s) for both large and small animals. You could hope that she was having a bad day and hasn't looked at things from your POV; perhaps she will apologize & reconsider. Interestingly at VA Tech, they teach a sheep management seminar with the head Vet Instructor and several Vet Students in attendance - we were giving shots, wethering, tail docking etc. Obviously it was taken for granted by all that as farmers we were going to do our own general vetting.