custom hay and DE questions

[alpacamom]

Where do you buy Diatomaceous Earth? We've looked at Lowe's, Menard's, and the farm stores, but no luck. Most people haven't even heard of it here. I just ordered some from the perma-guard website, but if I can get it locally, that would be ideal.

We have about 10 acres that we need to hay (just pasture grass), but don't have the equipment to do it ourselves since we bought the farm just last winter. We were given the name of a guy in town who does some custom hay work and here were his rates: $11.50/large round bale, $6.50-$7.50/acre raking and $10.50/acre mowing. Does that sound reasonable to you? Also, if you had to choose between large round bales of hay and small rectangle squares, which would you choose and why?

[farmergirl]

I live outside a TINY Texas town and the feed store there can preorder 50 lb bag of food grade DE for me. In fact, I'm ordering some next week Cost is $30 for 50 lbs, which will last me a LONG time. I need it for fire ant control and for sprinkling on the veggies in my garden to kill other pests. I also use it to control fleas on the barn cat.

[Wisconsin Ann]

Ask for "fossil shell flour". Many stores know that, and not the "diatamaceous earth".

You could also look at garden supply places. It's got a growing following as a natural insecticide. I'd think a feed store,or farm supply place could order it.

Hay...considering the time and fuel price involved, sounds reasonable to me.

type of bale....what are you feeding it too? big round bales are good for feeding cattle as is, but smaller critters will eat the bottom of it and it will fall on them.

I, personally, prefer small bales. They're a lot easier to move around and to store.

[Scrounger]

Not too bad on the hay prices. I would go with the small square bales. They are more cost effective (here anyhoo) and tend to waste less. They are lots easier to store and work with, also.
The DE can be bought at feed stores. Be sure to get "food grade" not "pool grade".

[Ole Man Legrand]

Alpacamom, WE buy ours in Check Va $24 for 50 lbs Toll Free PH 1 800 540 9181 www.7springsfarm.com I drive 114 miles to get it. I nornally bring all the neighbors a bag when I go. I think the quality of hay is a lot better in square bales over the round. Read the book Salad Bar Beef. by Joe Salliton. I don't know how to spell Joes last name ,This will vouch for the square bales Jay

[Beeman]

Originally Posted by alpacamom

Where do you buy Diatomaceous Earth? We've looked at Lowe's, Menard's, and the farm stores, but no luck. Most people haven't even heard of it here. I just ordered some from the perma-guard website, but if I can get it locally, that would be ideal.

We have about 10 acres that we need to hay (just pasture grass), but don't have the equipment to do it ourselves since we bought the farm just last winter. We were given the name of a guy in town who does some custom hay work and here were his rates: $11.50/large round bale, $6.50-$7.50/acre raking and $10.50/acre mowing. Does that sound reasonable to you? Also, if you had to choose between large round bales of hay and small rectangle squares, which would you choose and why?

I can't find food grade DE around here either. I didn't get a response from ROGO's source when I emailed them.

Hay is usually split on the halfs around here. This year because it's dry people will come and bale anything on halfs just to get some hay. As for bales round bales are great if you have enough cattle to feed off of a bale and eat it fast enough. Also if you have equipment to move and feed it with. Square bales need manpower, indoor storage or at least covered, and have to be picked up out of the field and stored before they get rained on. But they are much easier to handle, feed and control waste.

[PlowGirl]

For DE, if there is a feed mill nearby, they generally use DE for it's non-clumping qualities. They might be persuaded to part with some.

Make absolutely certain that it is food grade if you order from anywhere else. I ordered some from a pet store, telling the owner that I wished to use it as a dewormer (taken internally), I get back the garden variety, not to be taken internally. What a waste.

On a happier note, I just discovered that the mill where I have my feed custom mixed, has been using DE the entire time in my feed, so I really didn't need to go find it elsewhere. Which makes me feel better about how well my mill takes care of me, and that I can still use the garden variety in my livestock bedding for the external parasites.

[sewtlm]

Large round bales are usually stored outside and have a great deal of waste via mold and unpalatable hay.

The custom prices are pretty much in line with the region.

[Rocky Fields]

Hey Paula,

The hay prices quoted are pretty fair. People without haying equipment often go halves. You have the hay, the haymaker does the work, then you split 50-50. For ten acres, you would want to contact a neighbor farmer. Large bails are easier and faster to deal with when you have alot of large animals. You need a skewer for your tractor to handle them. In your situation, small squares would be much more practical for the llamas.

BTW, big rounds are either wrapped in plastic or mesh...the plastic cover isn't cheap.
You would probably be getting mesh. Remove the rocks sticking up out of your hayfield, so the haymaker won't damage his equipment. Coon carcasses will add extra protein to the hay:-)

RF

[michiganfarmer]

Originally Posted by farmergirl

I live outside a TINY Texas town and the feed store there can preorder 50 lb bag of food grade DE for me. In fact, I'm ordering some next week Cost is $30 for 50 lbs, which will last me a LONG time. I need it for fire ant control and for sprinkling on the veggies in my garden to kill other pests. I also use it to control fleas on the barn cat.

I didn tknow it was that usefull. How does it stop bugs?

[Tricky Grama]

It works by scratching the exoskeleton of insects, then they die. I put some in the corner of the bathroom-unseen-b/c kept getting those horrible 'water bugs'. EEEkkk.

Once in a great while the dog will pick up a flea from a 'friend' of hers & I sprinkle a little DE on her food + powder her belly & back.

Patty

[michiganfarmer]

I use diatemascus earth to filter maple syrup. I got my first package of it this spring. I dont know what it cost because it came with the filter press I bought.

[alpacamom]

I just ordered some DE from the perma-guard website...a 50 lb bag of fossil shell flour that is for livestock for $57.03 including shipping, so hopefully it'll get here early this week. I've looked at the ingredients for our grain for the alpacas and it doesn't have DE on the ingredients list, but it did have it on the Nutrena llama pellets we were feeding before we switched over to Kent.

RF...LOVE the comment about the coon carcasses...too funny!

We asked the guy about going halves, but I don't think he was interested. I'm going to keep an eye open and find someone who does the small square bales around here because I'm thinking that the big round bales won't be so good for alpacas. Don't need the hay falling on their heads. I think 1 big bale will last them about 3 months for 4 alpacas, so it'll be better for us to go with the squares. We can put them in the loft with the bucket on the tractor and it'll be easier to move 'em. We do have a big 3 sided building we could keep the round bales in, but I would rather use that for storing my tractor We have 2 strong boys to help stack the square bales, too, so I'm not too worried about manpower.

Thanks for all your advice! Everyone is so helpful here!

[saramark]

You paid too much for shipping, I guess. I pay 27.50 for a 50 lb bag of Perma-Guard brand food grade DE. I have to travel over an hour, so we get a few bags and share gas costs with friends, but that is about twice what I pay. You may want to find a local source, keep asking, someone near you must know something. I spent 3 months looking for fish meal before I found it, funny enough, at the same place I get my DE and Fertrell's supplements. One stop shopping for all my chicken supplies. I just wish it was a bit closer to home

mark

[piglady]

Call Perma-guard and see where the nearest wholesaler is to you. If you buy in bulk (about enough to fill the back of a pick up truck) it costs around $17 per 50 pound bag. We buy ours at the local feed mill for $20 a bag. And yes, make absolutely sure the bag says food grade. We mix ours 50/50 with loose cattle mineral and offer it to everything on the place. The results have been amazing. Aside from keeping them pest free both inside and out, it has numerous health benefits. The minerals in it I suppose. The animals eat less so I think the DE pays for itself, they look better, stay healthier, have higher conception rates, more live births, and we have very few flies on the farm. As far as I'm concerned, we will never be without it.

[alpacamom]

I'll keep searching for DE locally for sure and will be sure to ask at the feed co-op when I call for my alpaca grain this week.

I've heard so many awesome things about DE and wonder why more people don't use it. Makes no sense to me.

How would I find someone to custom hay? I asked the tractor dealer when I called to ask him about something else, but don't know who else to ask.

Thanks again!

[Rocky Fields]

Paula,

Call your county ag agent...they should be able to give you a list of names...you need someone close to you.

Sometimes the local newspaper has something in the classified ads...or you can put an ad in the newspaper.

Call people around you who sell hay...maybe you can work out something with them.

You can rent the equipment.

Horsepeople like the small bales...maybe one of them can help you.

Any Amish around you?


RF

[alpacamom]

RF, I'll call the ag agent tomorrow. I've been scouring classifieds for the newspaper and for the local advertiser with all the local ads, but no luck there. No idea who sells hay around here since we've only lived here since December 1 of last year. We have a New Holland TC34...would that be big enough to do hay? I'll look around for horse people...I know I've seen quite a few around the area...and see where they get their hay. As for Amish, I think the closest are about 45 minutes away. Thanks for your help!

[rambler]

A TC34 is borderline for pulling a small square baler. While the baler only uses 15-18 hp, the flywheel on it stores 50 hp or so & so the the driveline (pto & transmission parts of the tractor) need to be able to handle some strong shock loads. As well, a baler is heavier than it looks & rocks with the plunger strokes, and takes about 8hp & a heavy tractor to safely control in the field.

Most compact tractors will void the warentee if you use a baler with them, but check with NH - perhaps your 34 is big enough to make the grade.

Making small squares will cost you more than round baling it. But you will be much happier with small squares for your needs.

Will you pick up the bales laying in the field, or will you want them on wagons, or will you want them stacked for you in a barn? Changes the price you are charged of course.

Finding someone - probably a neighbor within 3 miles of you would do it, but finding each other is the hard part.

--->Paul

[Rocky Fields]

Paula,

Your tractor is listed as 35 gross hp, 28.9 pto hp. This would probably handle old haymaking equipment that would fit something like a farmall super h, but your rental places would have modern stuff that would require more power.

Finding someone to make small squares would be ideal. If it ain't happening, go with the guy who had the reasonable rates for large rounds. Then use the following info for plan B:

read the blog below near the bottom about rounds

http://alpacalady.wordpress.com/tag/alpaca-nutrition/

must read these also

http://forage.okstate.edu/publicatio...Investment.pdf

http://www.uky.edu/Ag/Agronomy/Depar...wp/collins.pdf

http://www.ext.vt.edu/news/periodica...2/aps-195.html


Good Luck!

RF