My dogs attacked my goat!

[RedneckPete]

Well, something has just happened to us and our animal family that has shaken my beliefs to their core. Those who know me know that I am normally confident and self-assured. Today I am feeling unconfident and unsure. I don’t enjoy the sensation.

Last night my two German Shepherd dogs attacked (and nearly killed) my daughters pet goat, Cupcake. When it initially happened I was so unbelieving that I convinced myself that the goat had fallen down and hurt herself and that the dogs had gotten in on the act. The vet assured me that the dogs had inflicted the goat’s injuries.

The goat was tied on her tether, her two kids never strayed far from mom, and were absolutely no cause for our concern whatsoever. They had water, lots of fresh greens and room to roam. Ruger (our male GS) watched over them night and day, sitting and laying and looking magnificent all day long. He sat tall and alert (as only a German Shepherd can) watching over the kids and their mother. When one of the kids would stray from the stakeout, he would herd them back to their mother. I firmly believed that should a coyote walk out of the bushes that Ruger would give his life defending “his” goats.

Yesterday, Ruger and Sandy (our female GS) nearly killed Cupcake. My daughter went outside in the evening to remove her from her tether and bring her back to her pen when she discovered the dogs circling over her. The two kids had sought safety in their pen. The two dogs had mauled Cupcake.

We rushed Cupcake to the vet (---- the cost) and he tried to convince us to put her down. He stitched her up and gave her a huge dose of antibiotics, but the goat was in dire condition. We brought her home, the vet came by this morning to check and gave her another (bigger) shot of antibiotics, and something for the pain. Cupcake was given a 40% chance at survival, upgraded to 50% when she started to nibble on hay and polished off a little offering of grain.

I have two GS dogs within a heartbeat of receiving a piece of high speed lead. They interact daily with my kids (ages 2-9) and aggressive dogs are not an option on my homestead.

I believe this is my fault. I should have curtailed Ruger’s behavior. I pretty much gave him full authority over the goats, to herd them and care for them, believing I could trust him. I should not have done so. It seems he needed training to teach him what was appropriate and what was not.

Cupcake remains in the garage, plugged into an IV and fighting for her life. The kids are fine (Twinkie and Cookie) and were ready to be weaned anyway. I may or may not post pictures tomorrow. I will not make this mistake again.

Pete

[pourfolkes]

Pete, I am so sorry that this happened to you and your family. Don't be too hard on yourself... doing anything in life is truly a learning experience. There may be others who disagree with me, but even a well trained dog can sometimes do something totally out of character... again a learning experience. I do, however, totally understand your concern for your children. Thank God it wasn't one of them. Again, I am so sorry this happened and I will say a prayer for your goat.

[RedneckPete]

Thank you

[sancraft]

I don't know if it's the breed or not. My dear late GSD, Violet, tried to kill one of my goats once. I literally had to beat her off the goat, which she had down by the throat, with a thick tree branch. She attacked my horses once, but a good kick from them and she learned her lesson but good. Don't blame yourself. You felt you could trust your dog. He seemed to be a natural from what you said about his behavior. I am praying for Ms. Cupcake. My goat Lucky was killed by a stray GSD mix and a hound pup. I pray Cupcake fairs better.

[Rockin'B]

Originally Posted by pourfolkes

Pete, I am so sorry that this happened to you and your family. Don't be too hard on yourself... doing anything in life is truly a learning experience. There may be others who disagree with me, but even a well trained dog can sometimes do something totally out of character... again a learning experience. I do, however, totally understand your concern for your children. Thank God it wasn't one of them. Again, I am so sorry this happened and I will say a prayer for your goat.

Agreed!

I sure hope the goat improves. Please keep us posted.

[cricket]

Don't beat yourself up. Even seasoned LGD breeds (as GSD's were at one time) will occassionally go bonkers and attack that which they are supposed to be defending. There could be any number of reasons...Not one of them would be "blood lust". However, I wouldn't trust either dog with the livestock from here on out. Perhaps a perimeter fence? That's what several poultry people I know do.

[tinknal]

GS have a high prey drive and like it or not, goats are "prey". There is something about a running animal that triggers the attack and it's almost automatic. If your dogs have been taught boundarys and know that the kids are high ranking "pack members" they should be safe.

[KCM]

You sound like you have been heartbroken. I feel bad with you.

The incident has probably taken an emotional toll on your entire family, but just want you to know that I am glad your children are all right (physically).

Take care!

[strongsad

[DianeWV]

Pete-So very sorry. I hope everything works out and a speedy healing for your injured goat. Take care.

[cchapman84]

I doubt it's a prey-drive thing. If it was, they most likely would have gone after the kids instead. After all, the kids are a lot more like prey than the mother is.

Is it possible that the mother did something near the kids that the dogs didn't like? Possibly something that they viewed as a threat? I've heard of that happening and the dogs defending the kids.

Is it possible that another dog or another animal got into the goat and they had run it off and were back protecting her? Did the dogs actually have blood on them? If the goat was tore up as bad as it sounds, then they almost definitely would have had blood on them.

I have a GS, and while she is a "leg-biter" (she'll grab hold of the legs of other animals, not hard, it's a herding thing), she generally shows no interest in livestock, other than a little bit of herding instinct.

Contrary to popular belief, previously stable dogs rarely "snap". There's almost always a REASON for their behavior. You need to find out what that reason is, or even if you get rid of these dogs, you may run into the same problem in the future.

Best of luck!

[Shygal]

My mothers GSD has killed many of my chickens and catches squirrels and mice, and Ive no doubt he would kill anything that came within reach.

He growls at my kids when there is any kind of food nearby, I don't trust the thing and Id love to introduce him to Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson.

[BAmaBubba]

While I agree that previously stable dogs rarely "snap", I have the scars to prove that it can happen. My papaw had a pointer that all us kids rode like a horse when we were small enough. He loved kids...until the day he turned on me and destroyed about 75% of my face and left me with 7 hrs of surgery and well over 200 stitches. Aggressive dogs aren't allowed near my younguns either.

Pete, I'm so sorry this happened to your family and poor Cupcake. Will say a prayer for her and you guys.

Brandon

[MARYDVM]

A mauling like that is much more likely to happen when 2 or more dogs are running loose. When the first one makes an aggressive move - even just a snarl or a snap - the next one moves in fast in response, and they both start instinctively competing to get at whatever triggered the attack. A possible scenario : Cupcake took exception to one of the dogs being near her kids, and butted it. That dog growled or snapped at her, the other dog responded to the show of aggression and jumped in, and the free for all started. At that point the dogs don't recognize they are killing a goat they've guarded, they are competing with each other to get the prey.

I would keep the dogs from running together until you figure out how you'll handle the situation.

[MountAiry]

Pete, I am so sorry to hear about this and can imagine and think I may know how you feel.
We had a dog several years ago that tried to attack our daughter. She had just had surgery (my daughter) and I don't know if this made her appear "weaker" to the dog or what. It was a terrible incident and I was sitting right there when it happened and so know exactly what went on. It was unprovoked.
We had been having some trouble with aggresion with the dog. She had bitten me twice (although it wasn't that hard, but a bite never the less) and my husband and I had conflicting ideas on how to handle the situation. I was raised with dogs and he was not. Anyway, I wont go into great details, but basically I went against my instincts and that was a huge mistake.

To make a long story short, I had her put to sleep. I take full responsibility for the situation and although I had tried to work with a trainer, the vet and even a breeder, I just decided it wasn't worth the risk after the attack. My vet aggreed with me.
You are very wise to recognize you have serious issues here and I believe that the dogs realizing the kids are pack leaders may be your answer. Work hard to get this resolved.
Regardless, you are right. Animals must never be a danger to children and I just know you will get the situation and dogs under control.
In the meantime, I am so sorry about the ordeal and your family and goat. One thing good about your kind of dogs are they are very smart. they are in the top five breeds for intellegence last time I looked it up. So you have something good to work with.

Best of luck and let us know how it all turns out!

[Ed0517]

It's very rare sheps go after "their" kids. They are family oriented - but may have taken an alpha stance with the goat. From what you have written, I'd probably still trust them with the family - but not the goat. Cupcake may not survive the next time, if it was them. That circling, though, makes me wonder - that sounds protective - were they looking outward much? CC may have a point about an outsider. They'd look in at times in either case to the injured goat, but were they looking outwards for an intruder?

[peri_simmons]

My new doberman puppy has for months been so excellent a guard dog for my chicken that I thought my poulty was safe.

I discovered that of I do not watch her she will snap at them sometimes as she runs by them on her way to potty.

Only because I have a small lot in the city and watch everytime she goes out did i notice that the is not as trustworthy as I thought. I have watched her lay down beside my girls to rest, and guard them from the local cats and dogs and vermin in the city.

Forgive yourself, dogs are so opportunistic, they are hard to predict what they will do sometimes, Now that you know, you will not make that assumption again.


I hope your goat is going to be healthy again soon. It is not your fault.

[Shadow]

We were given a black lab that a neighbor had to give away when they moved, we already had three large dogs but two are very old so ok. It growled at me a couple of time when I was feeding them and trying to keep it out of the other dogs food. Told the wife and she said it was just me and the way I told it no. A couple of days later she was dividing up table scraps and it growled and bared its teeth at her. That was it me and the four went for a long walkl and only me and three came back. You can not have agressive dogs around kids if you
do and the children are attacked, its your fault. No animal is worth that.

[longshadowfarms]

If I were in your situation I think I would have a trainer/behaviorist or someone like that in to assess your dogs. Finding someone with a strong understanding of dog behavior would be key. Frankly I'd do TONS of research before deciding who that person should be. Have that person evaluate your dogs in your home and have them explain your dog's strengths and weaknesses, where it views each person in the hierarchy, etc and get some recommendations from them on how to proceed. They should be able to pick up on things that you might not notice. There's no way you will ever trust these dogs again until you get a good appraisal of them. The dogs will pick up on your concern and it may exacerbate the problem (speaking as one who has been through this twice - first was a Pyr who suddenly at age two started attacking everyone in the family, second was a rescued Anatolian who was so dog aggressive that in addition to trying to kill our Pyr, she was a danger to any person who got in the way as well).

[Meg Z]

I have nothing to offer but condolences. I'm so sorry this happened, and even more sorry to see you beating yourself up over it. Living things always have a portion that's unpredictable, and you can't see the future.

Meg

[Rita]

We had an episode with our GS and one of the sheep. She had never in 4 yrs bothered any farm animal and one day I went outside and there she was with a sheep down and she was biting at it. Luckily I came out in time and that the sheep had a good coat of wool and no damage was done. After a good scolding etc. she never bothered anything again. "The devil made her do it".