Inheriting land - touchy subject

[booklover]

I am currently not a homesteader. Likely I will never be to the degree most of you are. But I grew up in farm country, my family is a family of farmers (large-scale), and one of these days I'd like to have a very, very small working farm.

Right now, my father and his two siblings own 327 acres in the midwest that are being cash rented & crop farmed. The three parents are all up there in age and two in not so great health. When they pass on, my 107 acres will come to me (only child). My aunt will pass on 107 to her two kids, and my uncle will pass 107 on to his 3 kids. One of the cousins farms about 1000 acres right now, but is not interested in farming our land (it's quite a ways away from his farm). So, this land will eventually be divided into 6 parts, with me owning the largest portion.

So, here is my dilemma. I'd like to talk to my father about this land, but I feel it is somehow inappropriate. My family is not a family of talkers and opening up about this would be a huge thing. Basically, my worries are about how we manage the farm once there are 6 of us kids owing it rather than the 3 brothers and sister. I know that one of my cousins would likely not even want to be bothered with it and would want to be bought out. This would be about 53 acres. I would be willing to buy her out if we could afford it when the time comes.

There is a house with about 5 acres on the land that is managed separately (and the rent again is divided into 3rds right now... not much, just $400/mo). A mechanic and his family live there and have done so for about 20 years. In theory, if ever he decided to move and I owned my third of the land, I would like to keep that for myself and potentially buy out my cousins. This could be my potential homestead, as it has barns and fences for raising meat, although the renter doesn't do so right now.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone came into your homestead through inheritance and how you dealt with talking to family about it. I am literally the ONLY one of the cousins who would want to live on the land. For everyone else, it's just a source of income. I am afraid that once our parents are gone, they will want to sell it all off. I am okay with that in theory because in 25 years or so, I'd like to buy a small farm in Europe. But I still want to keep that 5 acres and house because it's just a few miles from where I grew up.

My aunt is in the last stages of dementia and congestive heart failure, so this subject will come up, unfortunately, sooner than we were hoping. My father is 70, but in fairly good health and I hope to not have to deal with my part for a while. Still, though, I know so little about this land that I couldn't even take my dh down to the area and show him exactly which fields are ours! That's how little I know about this land that will one day be mine. How do I talk to my father without making it seem that I'm rushing him off to the grave?

[Rocky Fields]

Hey.

It is best to phone everyone or get everyone together in one room and talk about it. You are daydreaming about buying your cousins out, but they may be planning on buying you out. That acreage probably would be costly, so you better think on how you're going to raise the money to make an offer if the opportunity presents itself.

RF

[Country Lady]

Bring the subject up with your dad. Talk to him now. Don't wait until it's too late. My family situation was somewhat like yours. You think you know people until an inheritance is involved and you realize you didn't know them at all. It's a hard subject to approach, but you dad can fill you in on things you wouldn't know otherwise. Most probably, he'll be relieved the subject finally came up.

[muzzelloader]

I note you are talking about having a small working farm and then you mention you want a small farm in Europe. But you want the small farm in the US allso then your wanting to retire to Europe. Which seems to say you have a bit of a problem deciding just wheare you want to be. Allso not sure if you mean to just live on the US farm and make a living from it or just live there and derive your income from something other than farming. Also if you are intending to move to Europe in the future why are you wanting to live here in US? Perhaps at this time you do not have a clear plan for your life and home. You may need to make some decisions about what you realley have in mind before starting to get involved with an obvious complicated family propertey inheiritance situation. Frome your discription of your father I would allso say that he would not be upset if you bring the matter up with him as most of the older generation are of the mind set that passing it on to the next generation is what is the right thing to do. He may be waiting for you to bring it up and is hopeing you will carrey on with the land.

[booklover]

For clarification:

I don't want to farm the land AT ALL. I want to keep the land to possibly build a small homestead in about 15 years. In about 25 years, I plan to move abroad. I would want to keep the same arrangement with the farmer that cash rents the land. I would like to use about 2 acres of the land that is not farmed (5 acres as part of the house) for homestead building.

I want to discuss this with Dad, not the whole family. We couldn't get together, anyway. Some of the family live in Europe now. In the US, we are scattered to the 4 corners.

I *can* buy them out, but it would mean cashing in my well-diversified investments to be very heavily tilted in real estate. I'm not willing to do that. (I'm one of those weirdos that still believes in the world market. ) But, I *am* potentially interested in buying 53 of the acres off of my cousin one of these days, assuming I have the cash reserves to do it. It would depend on timing. What I DON'T want to happen is for her to sell it off to a stranger and potentially screw up the cash renting situation we have right now.

My father is a very closed-mouthed person. It's getting him to open up about it without seeming to be overstepping my bounds that I'm worried about. I'd like to get some advice about approaching him. He used to be a farmer, but the land is just income for him and always will be.

[booklover]

Originally Posted by muzzelloader

I note you are talking about having a small working farm and then you mention you want a small farm in Europe. But you want the small farm in the US allso then your wanting to retire to Europe. Which seems to say you have a bit of a problem deciding just wheare you want to be. Allso not sure if you mean to just live on the US farm and make a living from it or just live there and derive your income from something other than farming. Also if you are intending to move to Europe in the future why are you wanting to live here in US? Perhaps at this time you do not have a clear plan for your life and home. You may need to make some decisions about what you realley have in mind before starting to get involved with an obvious complicated family propertey inheiritance situation. Frome your discription of your father I would allso say that he would not be upset if you bring the matter up with him as most of the older generation are of the mind set that passing it on to the next generation is what is the right thing to do. He may be waiting for you to bring it up and is hopeing you will carrey on with the land.

No, I have a clear plan. I would like to have a homestead in the US in about 12 - 15 years. I would stay on that land for about 10 years, then sell that or rent it and move to Germany. I have very realistic ideas about homesteading and want to make sure that I am cut from the right cloth for it. I do not want to uproot, move to Germany, and *THEN* find out I can't hack it. The 10 - 15 years homesteading in the US would be the preparation for moving abroad and closer to dh's family. I think it's a sound plan.

[lgslgs]

The best way is to discuss it directly, in person with your Dad. That's the only way you are really going to get any information.

If you and your Dad have a problem talking together, you might want to put some time into working on that before discussing an inheritance plan.

You aren't going to sort this situation out unless you have a real dialogue going with him.

Lynda

[booklover]

Originally Posted by Country Lady

Bring the subject up with your dad. Talk to him now. Don't wait until it's too late. My family situation was somewhat like yours. You think you know people until an inheritance is involved and you realize you didn't know them at all. It's a hard subject to approach, but you dad can fill you in on things you wouldn't know otherwise. Most probably, he'll be relieved the subject finally came up.

Thanks for the words of advice. You are probably right. I guess I just don't want him to think that I'm rushing him off to the grave by making plans now for my inheritance. It has this feeling of impropriety, I guess.

[GrannyG]

Talk with him NOW. We had 303 acres, the others never cared about the land, did nothng, but everything had to be sold to give them their third. We could not pay for all the land to buy them out, they wanted it sold,they felt they would get less as we had put a big tank on our part, didn't make any difference, we had to let it go to appease them and the attorney. The attorneys ended up with a nice profit, too.

[Rocky Fields]

Hey.

You best forget it. You need to love the land to be a happy homesteader. If you won't cash in your diversified portfolio, the land isn't really important to you. You talk of cash renting and selling...better find an investment forum somewhere.

RF

[DianeWV]

If you choose to talk with your father, does your father and his 2 siblings own the 327 acres, plus the house, together as 1 farm? Or, have the 3 siblings legally divided the whole farm into 3 equal/separate parts containing 107 acres that you describe. In other words, does your father/his siblings have separate deeds locating their individual acreage on the ground? The reason I mention this is not to be nosy; but this could greatly affect your father's interest before you come in the picture. For example, if not separate deeds: aunt passes on, leaving her interest to her kids-then, they become co-owners with your dad and the sibling left. Which is more people for your father to deal with. If the original farm has 3 separate deeds, then all you need to do is talk to your dad which is your decision. Wishing you good luck with your decision. Take Care.

[ksfarmer]

Also, the land and house might be titled to the 4 siblings with right of survivorship. Be sure you know the situation. Do any of them have wills specifiying what happens to their share? ? ?

[highlands]

You're making a big assumption here that you'll get a share. The current owners may not agree with you on that. They may have plans to sell or leave their shares to each other or to someone besides you. Question your assumptions.

[agmantoo]

Unless you implement a plan now that everyone agrees to here is what is more likely to happen. The division of the income will continue with the 1/3 distributions as the elders pass. Eventually when only you and your cousins survive either a vote will be taken as to how to dispose of the property or a judge will mandate the sale. At that time you will have one vote regardless the fact that you have the majority of the acreage! Right now your father has 1/3 of the votes so you need to get an understanding now among the elders as to their desires as to how the farm is to be inheritied.

[Wolf mom]

Sometimes planting seeds work better than an all out discussion.
Some people need to just get a little information, mull/talk that over then get some more info..until they get the big picture.

Better start soon.

[booklover]

Originally Posted by DianeWV

If you choose to talk with your father, does your father and his 2 siblings own the 327 acres, plus the house, together as 1 farm? Or, have the 3 siblings legally divided the whole farm into 3 equal/separate parts containing 107 acres that you describe. In other words, does your father/his siblings have separate deeds locating their individual acreage on the ground? The reason I mention this is not to be nosy; but this could greatly affect your father's interest before you come in the picture. For example, if not separate deeds: aunt passes on, leaving her interest to her kids-then, they become co-owners with your dad and the sibling left. Which is more people for your father to deal with. If the original farm has 3 separate deeds, then all you need to do is talk to your dad which is your decision. Wishing you good luck with your decision. Take Care.

See, I don't even know. Dad said that it is being held in trust for me (I'm an only child), but I don't know the details. Thanks for posting this. These are good questions to ask him if I can ever sit down with him and talk about it.

[booklover]

GrannyG - thanks for your story. It is something that opens my eyes better to what might come of this.

Rocky Fields - believe me, I spend plenty of time at the Morning* forums talking about investments. I'm going to stick around here, too. I'd appreciate you to keep your mean-spirited comments to yourself. It's not what I asked about nor is it helpful.

Wolfmom - words of wisdom, thank you.

Agmantoo - you're right.

Highlands - the land's in a trust for me.

Thank you to the rest for your thoughts and information.

It's always possible that they sell the land before I inherit. But I doubt it will happen in my father's lifetime. Right now it is providing retirement income for him and his sister (the one who is dying). My uncle might push to sell eventually, though. He is filthy, stinking, mansion and yacht, rich, so it is more of a nuisance to him.

Thank you all for your words of wisdom. Especially you, GrannyG for sharing your story. I have a lot to think about.

[Muskrat]

You need to determine what 'trust' is. Property placed in trust usually is not available to be sold.

You may discover that your intention to sell the land in a few years may determine how some of the others decide to deal with the issue. Also, homesteading/farming in the United States and homesteading/farming in Germany are not the same. Even the farmer cousin who doesn't want to farm the land now, may simply be of the opinion that the rents from the land going to the older people is a better way of dealing with the property than if he were to rent it. Actually owning the land might change his mind.

[booklover]

Originally Posted by Muskrat

You need to determine what 'trust' is. Property placed in trust usually is not available to be sold.

You're absolutely right... I do.

Originally Posted by Muskrat

You may discover that your intention to sell the land in a few years may determine how some of the others decide to deal with the issue.

That's why I said sell *or rent*. It would depend on what the cousins have in mind, how the land is held (each of us holding the land separately or all as one farm). I have no vote right now and only 1/3 of the vote in the future and I may or may not agree as to how to handle the situation. You're right.

Originally Posted by Muskrat

Also, homesteading/farming in the United States and homesteading/farming in Germany are not the same.

Yes, I certainly realize this. Life is not the same. Land is more dear... you don't just go out and buy several acres on a continent where they stack the people vertically because there is no land for housing. We moved back 2 years ago from Germany, and in spite of it all, I still miss it.

Originally Posted by Muskrat

Even the farmer cousin who doesn't want to farm the land now, may simply be of the opinion that the rents from the land going to the older people is a better way of dealing with the property than if he were to rent it. Actually owning the land might change his mind.

When they offered to let the cousin farm it, he said that it's just too far from his current farm and he doesn't want to deal with having, essentially two separate farms. He is just not set up for it. So, yeah, renting is a better way of dealing with it. Also, the same farmer has been cash renting it for about 20 years or so, so there is a history there.

I also couldn't farm it single-handedly, so the options will always probably be cash rent the cropland or sell it. I'm looking to just have a small house with a few chickens, a cow, and a large kitchen garden on the part that already has a home on it. That's why I said in my first post "very, very small farm". Not even a "homestead" really because I have no plans to be truly self-sufficient. I'm realistic enough to know that one aging woman cannot manage that.

[Spinner]

Has your dad lived and farmed the land in the past? Did he grow up on the land? A good conversation starter might be to ask him about his childhood on the land and kind of let the conversation flow from there. He might enjoy talking about the future of the land if you get him started.