roses

[Deb&Al]

hi all,
i have a 4-year old "joseph's coat" rose from J&P, which has been a beautiful climber with multicolored blooms. this year it came in all red, and the blooms are different. i guess what happened is that a sucker took over? or could the upper graft have died with the particularly bad winter we had here?

anyway, a dumb question, but is there any way to figure out how to revert it back to the multicolored blooms? if i cut the existing vines/canes, will the crown sprout out again?

who knows about roses? talk to me.
deb

[suburbanite]

Deb, if you look at the stem, can you find the graft site?

Joseph's coat can fool you. I take it the red blooms are not evolving into other colors at all?

If the wood above the graft site is still alive then it should sprout. Usually when I've had suckers the plant will have both the red rootstock canes and canes from above the graft.

[RoseGarden]

It's hard to say without looking, but it does sound like the graft has taken over. Are there multiple canes growing out of the graft? If so, some of them may still be the Joseph's Coat and may be coaxed to grow again. If this were my rose (I have 120+ varieties ) I would cut away all canes that exhibit the red/different shaped blooms, and then examine the graft site. If you can see that there are canes growing above the graft, then those are the JC and you should feed, water well, and keep the other canes pruned off. However, if the canes with the red/different blooms are below the graft, I would say you have a Dr. Huey rootstock, being as they are red, and that is the most commonly used rootstock that exhibits red blooms. Unfortunately, it is also a very very vigorous rootstock. Not sure exactly what JP uses, though, as I won't buy their roses. I have never been pleased with their roses, IMO they are overpriced and the quality is not very good. Any other questions, please feel free to ask. Roses are my favorite subject.

ETA and yes, the bloom form for the rootstock will be very different from that of Joseph's Coat, and this is a main indicator that the rootstock has taken over.

[Txsteader]

If you determine that the graft has died and you like Joseph's Coat enough to want another, I'd suggest getting one that is 'own root' (like roses you'd start from cuttings yourself), meaning it's growing on it's own roots rather than grafted to another root stock. You may have to get it through mail order....there's several nurseries that sell them (check Google).

[BethW]

Sounds like Dr. Huey might be taking over!

[Freeholder]

This is a timely thread! A few weeks ago I bought two Joseph's Coat roses (J & P -- they may not do well in the Southeast but are well-regarded here in a similar climate to where they are raised). I got them at a local feedstore -- I wanted two, and there were only two left, so I got both of them even though one only had one tiny little bud on it. The other one, which was already starting to leaf out, is doing fine. But the little tiny bud died and now a very healthy-looking shoot is coming up from the roots. So I spent several hours trying to find out if these roses were grafted or own-root. . . sigh. I guess it was grafted and I'll have something other than a Joseph's Coat there. Can someone tell me more about the Dr. Huey that was probably used as a rootstock? If it's not a climber, I'll move it somewhere else and try again, as these are suppose to be climbing up our front porch.

Thanks.

Kathleen

[RoseGarden]

I would suggest this rose website, it is my favorite for identifying roses and learning about their habit, disease resistance and suceptibility, zone ratings, etc.

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/index.php?tab=5

This should take you to the page where you can search for roses based on name. You can also search by other criteria.

Would do a better job of explaining than I could.

[Freeholder]

Thank you! I learned quite a bit about Dr. Huey there, and after talking to Grandma, we decided to leave it alone and let it grow! It only blooms once a year, but is very pretty when it's in bloom, and it's a climber (or rambler that we can train up), which is what we wanted in that spot. So it isn't the Joseph's Coat, but it will work.

Kathleen

[Deb&Al]

hi everyone,
thanks for the information. i think mine is a dr huey, and while i'm sorry to hear from bjf that it only blooms once, like our wild rose by the well, i think i'll leave it where it is.

side thought: i'm constantly amazed at the collective knowledge that is shared on this forum, from roses to rabbits and everything in between. what a great place!

debbie

[Honorine]

Only problem with Dr Huey is that it does get mildew rather badly, and shoots out 12 foot canes, its quite vigorous. One way to tell Josephs Coat from the Dr is the thorns, DH has smooth canes with well spaced small harmless thorns, JC is armed like a porcupine, with pale green vicious thorns covering its canes. In a fit of pique many years ago I took a axe to my JC after it had mauled me once again, replaced it with something not quite so thorny. When planting grafted plants in cold areas its best to bury the graft 4 to 6 inches deep, first with no sun on the shank less chance of having Huey sprout, and the soil covering the graft protects a few inches of the canes as well. Those few inches of cane gives your rose something to grow back from if the canes die to the soil line, its pretty difficult getting a completely decaned graft to grow, can be done, but its touch and go more often than not. Also I've had a number of roses go ownroot that way, have even dug them up and snipped off the rootstock and they still survived and grew. If the rose is already planted mounding over the graft for winter is good too. If you have figured out that there's still some of your JC left and want to remove the DH try ripping the canes off, not cutting, cutting may leave budeyes intact that can grow back. If you want to keep him then try to spraying it with a mild soap mix to control the mildew. Every spring I see thousands of Dr Hueys everywhere, its probably the most common rose in the US besides Multiflora, it is pretty when blooming, but I prefer repeat bloomers myself. J&P's 'New Generation' roses are actually ownroots, grafting is a skill thats labor intensive, easier to stick a cutting, and perhaps someday many of the big vendors will be selling mostly ownroot.

[moosemaniac]

I had a beautiful scented yellow rose that turned pinkish. When I checked, above the graft was gone and the bush was growing from the root stock. It's still pretty, it's just not what I planted.

Ruth

[Honorine]

Sounds like Manetti, a seldom used rootstock anymore, I think Weeks still uses it. Its an old noisette, I had roses revert to it many years ago.
It this it?

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=15373&tab=1