Hay buying blues, part 3

[topside1]

Most haymen in my area see a gold rush year in hay sales. Which in my opinion is just taking advantage of folks who are desperately trying to feed their beloved animals. Field owners are jacking up hay prices beyond logic, others individuals are buying hay just to re-sell later during the winter, and then there are the folks buying hay that don't even own livestock.$$$ Hope your sitting down for this one, another lower breed of people are buying round bale hay, re-baling the rounds into lighter squares just for greed and greenbacks. I'm all for capitalism, but get real folks. Thank God there are a few sensible people left who look out for fellow livestock owners. Make a profit by all means, but how about not screwing you neighbors into bankruptcy and forced animal sales. I got my fertilized, over-seeded 4x5 timothy/orchard weed-less rounds for $23.00 each, Squares for $2.25 each. Bottom line there are still folks out there that care about you, and your needs, you just have to shop a bit harder these days. Priorities just aren’t what they used to be…..TJ

Just in case you wondered, my area is suffering from extreme dought. Supply and demand is not always the rule, shop around.

[DaleK]

If there's a drought, that means those hay sellers have less hay to sell but they still have to pay the same bills. If they're truly overcharging, they'll be stuck with a pile of hay they can't sell. Sounds like you expect somebody else to give you a good deal on THEIR back so you can afford to feed your livestock. Welcome to real life. Quit whining and deal with it, or sell.

[topside1]

I'm trying to understand your comeback dale....I'm all for reasonable profit. Aren't you? I'm not whining and I'm also sure you must sell hay. I'm just stating that there are good folks left in this country who try to look out for others.....I guess your not from here.....bye

[PyroDon]

better start figuring what it costs to bale that hay as well
it costs me in gas alone $60+ to cut $30+ to rake and an easy $75 to bale at current gas prices thats a ten acre field in small squares . Now add in the cost of spraying , fertilizer, reseeding. then of course we can get into the equipment up keep baler bearings,belts, mower blades, rake teeth and of course wire or twine. then we can add in the man hours of labor. on small squares to break even your going to have to charge $1-1.25 just to break even because all told to hay that ten acres cost you 1000-1200 for about the same number of bales in a good year . now for big rounds you can cut the costs slightly but your only going to have 25-30 bales to sale .
Our area was in the same shape last year It cost roughly $700 to hay our ten acre pasture got big round 15 bales of decent hay and five of briers we kept one bale
the others sure didnt cover the costs at $20 per
want cheap hay hook those goats cows or ponies to a horse draw sickle bar and start making hay stacks

[clovis]

This past Saturday, I passed a crew putting up hay in a 5 acre field. It is a beautiful stand of alfalfa.

I really wondered if it was worth the time they had in the hay. Two young men stacking, another driving the tractor. When you consider the risk of an expensive break down on the baler, I doubt it was. With fuel and labor costs, not to mention wear and tear on expensive capital equipment, twine, etc...that guy deserves a premium for his hay.

Clove

[RedHogs]

Topside, I sell hay in Tennessee.... At $60 role i will make less this year than last.... at $70 a roll I will make the same. How is it always the hayman's fault when people overstock thier farm and can't feed thru the summer without hay. Tuesday Morning a guy pitched a hissy on my farm, I told him the price.... He agreed and I loaded half his trailer.... He kept mouthing off and I unloaded his trailer and told him to leave...He has since told everyone how I have wronged him and he has had to sell off half of his stock... The idiot has advertised my hay to half the county for free and my phone is ringing of the hook. I don't apologize for selling my hay higher this year, like you say if I'm overpriced it won't sell. ITS SELLING AS FAST AS I CAN BALE IT!!!!

[indypartridge]

Originally Posted by DaleK

If there's a drought, that means those hay sellers have less hay to sell but they still have to pay the same bills.

I've got a field that produced about 450 small square bales in one cutting last summer - enough for our horses and a bit left over to sell. Right now I'm looking at having to bushhog it because of the drought.

[mink]

theres all kinds of hay in ny......1.25 to 1.75 square bales and about 20 bucks a round bale.....you people might be able to connect on a tractor trailer load from up here...........mink

[clsmith15]

Around here there's just not any to sell. The farmer that I usually buy from is worried about having enough for his cattle. I would gladly pay a extra for his hay as the bales are nice and heavy and the hay is always clean. The feed store has some decent fescue right now and the price is not inflated so I'm really not seeing anyone making a killing on this. The good news is that there is a 60% chance for rain here next weekend. It seems there is a tropical system headed for Florida which will push the high pressure ridge out over the Atlantic and open the door for weather systems to come into the southeast. Keep your fingers crossed that we will get a break.

[Timberline]

Well, if you can get small squares for $2.25 each, consider yourself very lucky. It's running average $10 here. And you're lucky to find any for sale at all. Those of us who don't have our own hay to bale have to plan ahead. In 2002, when the drought here in Colorado was so bad, I reduced my herd of Dexters significantly. I am now running a smaller, much more sustainable herd, and will keep it this way in the future. I replaced some of those cattle with Nigerian goats that do fine on the forage the cows prefer not to eat. I have a ready market for both of these smaller breeder, so it works great for me. When I buy my hay in the late summer/fall, I always buy at least a full year's worth. That way, if we have a longer winter or drier spring than normal, I don't have to buy super expensive hay in the spring to make up for not stocking up in the first place (or worse not being able to get any at all). When I do have quite a bit extra in the spring and can see I won't need it, I can sell it for a bit of a profit.

I think the hay business is just like any other. When the prices get too high, the product won't sell and the prices will come down. When demand is up, prices are up. Also with increased fuel prices, property taxes, insurance, etc. the farmers have to charge more so they can make a good living, too.

[bumpus]

.
Those people are just as welcome to raise there prices as you are on your livestock.

You are the one who has to pay or do something else.

If they can't sell there hay are you going to give them a dirt cheap cow ?

bumpus
.

[bill not in oh]

I understand that there are some unscrupulous folks out there that will take advantage of niche circumstances and broker their way into a profit. But 90% of the folks baling hay are going to charge a price that allows them to make a reasonable profit when considering the expenses already mentioned. Bottom line is that hay is going to be more expensive in most places this year than last year as is bagged/bulk feed. It's simple economics...

Price of feed/hay increases because it costs more to produce and/or demand increases and/or supply of grains/hay decreases (acres planted in corn rather than soybeans, oats, barley, wheat etc.).

The consumer of these simply have to raise the price of their beef, eggs, chicken, pork, sheep, goats, milk, cheese, soap etc. to the broker/wholesalers or to their end-consumer customers.

The chain continues ultimately to the end consumer at the market whether it's a farm or WalMart.

If you don't keep livestock for production - if they're pets - that's ok, just be prepared for your hobby to be a bigger bite out of your bank account.

[Jan in CO]

I agree with ALL of you--it does hurt all of us when prices go up on anything. I know it costs more to produce less hay than it did on good years, so that's just the price of raising livestock. Grain will also be more expensive. We all have choices, either fewer, or different livestock, or find something else to feed them. My uncle in California had a huge herd of beef cattle, and one year during the drought, had to drive 200 miles to get CABBAGE LEAVES to supplement them because his own, lush grass just wasn't there. Now has had to reduce his herd to just the core. We've had to do the same.

It isn't anyone's fault, and yes, there are those who will take advantage of others, but for the most part, farmers and ranchers are just scratching out a living like anyone else, and working a whole lot harder than some! You can't expect them to work their guts out to produce something, whether it's hay or livestock, then sell it at a loss. It isn't a picnic to grow and bale hay, but I'm sure glad they do it!

Jan in Co

[edcopp]

Originally Posted by clsmith15

Around here there's just not any to sell. The farmer that I usually buy from is worried about having enough for his cattle. I would gladly pay a extra for his hay as the bales are nice and heavy and the hay is always clean. The feed store has some decent fescue right now and the price is not inflated so I'm really not seeing anyone making a killing on this. The good news is that there is a 60% chance for rain here next weekend. It seems there is a tropical system headed for Florida which will push the high pressure ridge out over the Atlantic and open the door for weather systems to come into the southeast. Keep your fingers crossed that we will get a break.

Around where? Where is the here that you mention?

[edcopp]

Originally Posted by topside1

Most haymen in my area see a gold rush year in hay sales. Which in my opinion is just taking advantage of folks who are desperately trying to feed their beloved animals. Field owners are jacking up hay prices beyond logic, others individuals are buying hay just to re-sell later during the winter, and then there are the folks buying hay that don't even own livestock.$$$ Hope your sitting down for this one, another lower breed of people are buying round bale hay, re-baling the rounds into lighter squares just for greed and greenbacks. I'm all for capitalism, but get real folks. Thank God there are a few sensible people left who look out for fellow livestock owners. Make a profit by all means, but how about not screwing you neighbors into bankruptcy and forced animal sales. I got my fertilized, over-seeded 4x5 timothy/orchard weed-less rounds for $23.00 each, Squares for $2.25 each. Bottom line there are still folks out there that care about you, and your needs, you just have to shop a bit harder these days. Priorities just aren’t what they used to be…..TJ

Just in case you wondered, my area is suffering from extreme dought. Supply and demand is not always the rule, shop around.

Sounds like you have got "good people" and uninformed people mixed up. Why not tell them that the price has gone up. Pay them a few extra bucks, they are your neighbors and they can use the money too.

[Mike in Ohio]

topside1, when the cost of producing hay is more than the market price have you offered the haymen extra money above and beyond what the price is? I don't think so.

I'm in the process of converting my hay pasture to fenced grazing for cattle because it makes more sense for me to buy hay in the field from others and graze my own pastures (going with Scottish Highlands) rather than trying to sell hay. We were producing 3,000-3,500 bales on first cutting but for the last 3-4 years the economics of selling hay worked against us....so we are changing our business model.

What I hear you saying is that when the economics of things change, you want others to carry the burden for you rather than you adjusting your business. Consider that fuel costs are up, the cost of liming is up, etc. PyroDon laid it out pretty well. If the haymen in your area are making excess profits then people will truck in hay from adjacent areas.

If you run more animals than the carrying capacity of your land then you will always be at the mercy of others. If the economics for me change then I will cut back on the number of animals and use some of the pasture for hay to get by.

Sorry if I'm not very sympathetic to your "plight". Your complaint just doesn't seem very reasonable to me.

This year I'm letting my neighbors take most of the hay for the cutting as we only have one of the pastures fenced (posts are in, still need to get the gates and fence on). They get a deal and I don't have to deal with it. That's about being neighbors, not about "reasonable profit".

It really sounds like you consider "reasonable profit" to be a price you are personally happy with.

Mike

[RockyGlen]

we won't be selling any hay this year, between the cost of gas, fertilizer, and the drought....we'll be lucky to grow enough for our own animals. My MIL in west texas is paying $210 for large round bales of alfalfa/grass horse hay. Here in central WY, it's $200 for large squares.

[homebirtha]

So topside, what were you paying last year for hay, before the drought? How much do you think is a "fair" increase? Someone on the goat board mentioned that they got about 1/4 of the amount of hay off the same field as they got last year. So if they want to make the same money, they would have to quadruple their prices. I'm not sure what you expect hay folks to do. Decrease their profits and eat the loss because of the weather? When it comes to the weather, you're all in it together, so you're all going to have to deal with increased prices and decreased output unless you sell your "beloved animals."

Compared to what some people in Texas were paying for hay last year during their drought, you're getting yours for practically nothing. How much are people charging that you're so enraged about?

[ozark_jewels]

I can see both sides since I buy hay but also cut and put up our hay......the prices of *everything* has gone way up so yes, the price hay growers have to get out of their hay has gone up considerably. People who haven't cut their own simply have no idea of the money it takes to simply run the equipment to harvest it, let alone the fertilizer and seeding!

But the people who charged $75 per bale of *poor* fescue hay last year simply because "thats what I could get if I sent it to Texas"......that burnt me.

And the people who don't like my hay prices when I price it what I have to have out of it to make a tiny profit.......they are welcome to look elsewhere.....my hay still sold without them.

[michiganfarmer]

Originally Posted by topside1

Most haymen in my area see a gold rush year in hay sales. Which in my opinion is just taking advantage of folks who are desperately trying to feed their beloved animals. Field owners are jacking up hay prices beyond logic, others individuals are buying hay just to re-sell later during the winter, and then there are the folks buying hay that don't even own livestock.$$$ Hope your sitting down for this one, another lower breed of people are buying round bale hay, re-baling the rounds into lighter squares just for greed and greenbacks. I'm all for capitalism, but get real folks. Thank God there are a few sensible people left who look out for fellow livestock owners. Make a profit by all means, but how about not screwing you neighbors into bankruptcy and forced animal sales. I got my fertilized, over-seeded 4x5 timothy/orchard weed-less rounds for $23.00 each, Squares for $2.25 each. Bottom line there are still folks out there that care about you, and your needs, you just have to shop a bit harder these days. Priorities just aren’t what they used to be…..TJ

Just in case you wondered, my area is suffering from extreme dought. Supply and demand is not always the rule, shop around.

what stops you from planting and raising your own hay?