Car or Calf? Which to get

[Jan in CO]

Our granddaughter, almost 16 has been in the market steer project for two years now in 4H, LOVES cattle! She has been chomping at the bit to get a car, but hasn't completed driver's ed yet, so that's not a real big issue, as she wouldn't be able to drive it yet. She's also been asking to buy a heifer calf to raise, then eventually breed and continue in the beef projects. I've told her raising heifers isn't all it's cracked up to be, there are sometimes problems with calving, and we have NO equipment for that emergency. It just doesn't deter her. She loves them. Would sleep with the steers if we'd let her, I think!

What do you all think? Shall we allow her to spend the savings she's accumulated (originally towards a car, she has other savings for college if she chooses to go that route), on a calf, or encourage her to stick to the original plan, and work towards a car/pickup?

We only have 10 acres here, so most of the hay for the calves has to be purchased, and hay is going up and up in price. We make her put half of the money from the sale of her 4H steers into savings, and half goes into her checking account, from which she purchases feed and supplies for the steers.

Am I just a control freak? She won't be able to get one until after the 4H sale in late July, so it's not an emergency, but I'm trying to decide which way to go. Any thoughts?

Jan in Co

[Lynnette]

I suppose it is a matter of need. Does she need a car, or can the car wait, while she invests in her cattle and continues building a savings toward her car? If she has no need for a car and is making or can make good money off of her cattle projects, let her get the cattle. If she needs the car, then she should forgo the cattle. It costs money to care for an animal but it costs money to own a car as well.

[TNTPoultry]

And what happens if the heifer should die? That's always a possibility as there are problems with calving, illness, injury etc. Then you daughter would be out all the money and still be walking. I'd encourage her to get the car and then begin saving for the heifer if it's of interest to her, adding that all necessary cattle equipment/supplies should be bought ahead of getting the heifer.

[Jan in CO]

That's a true statement, and one we've tried to point out to her. I'd really like it to be her decision, but she isn't as mature as a lot of girls her age, so needs a lot of guidance. I've even thought of letting her get both..but the car would have to be a cheapo one, which might, in the long run cost her a lot more than one in better shape, costing more. Jan in Co

[tinknal]

I've never heard of a kid getting in an accident, arrested, or pregnant while out with her cow. Sounds like your daughter has fantastic prioritys. She MIGHT lose her investment with cattle, but it is absolutly guaranteed that she will lose her investment with a car. Sure cows have costs but so do cars including fuel, insurance, and maintainance, with no potential for a return on her investment.

[ozark_jewels]

Ok.....coming from a girl who got her first cow years before she got her first car....I say get her the cow. It will teach her responsibility, the fact that a living being depends on her for everything, and it will help her mature into a responsible young lady(you say she is a little slower about maturing). Yep, I'd say get her the cow, its an investment for sure but after she sells her first calf from it, she ought to have enough money to put a down payment on a decent car.

[lmnde]

What a great opportunity to practise decision making skills!

Have her make a pro's + con's list - and help [show] her how to evaluate it. Is it a better financial decision to buy a calf today, spend the money etc to raise it and perhaps have a calf next year out of a young heifer [if all goes well - how old do cows need to be in order to be bred?]. Selling [or raising and selling later] the calf to recover the investment? Is the financial outlay of feed + mainentance enough to offset the price of the calf? Can she wait an extra year longer without a car in order to hold back the calf [if its a female] in order to have 2 to sell the next year? Etc., etc. etc

Help her work out the scenario and compare a one and two year plan including potential costs vs. return, vs. not having a calf now. Help her see the differences and then let her make her decision, based on facts not just on emotions. Some 16 year olds are very mature for their ages, others are still a bit fluffy and flakey - although thinking a 16 yr old that loves cattle can't be too fluffy in the head, LOL. Beats designer clothes, fake nails and smoking!

Great opportunity to help her develop some good business sense [and perhaps keep her home a bit longer before her interests wander off to less desireable endeavors].

Lmnde

[Paula]

Originally Posted by tinknal

I've never heard of a kid getting in an accident, arrested, or pregnant while out with her cow. Sounds like your daughter has fantastic prioritys. She MIGHT lose her investment with cattle, but it is absolutly guaranteed that she will lose her investment with a car. Sure cows have costs but so do cars including fuel, insurance, and maintainance, with no potential for a return on her investment.

ditto

[Junkmanme]

When I was in Boarding School (a LONG TIME AGO), I wanted some snow skis and I wanted a guitar. I called my Father about it.

He said, "You can have either one, but not both. Make up your mind which you want most."

I picked the guitar.

I think the decision should be your Granddaughters. It helps teach her "decision-making" and, after all, apparently she is the one who "earned" the money.

just my 2 pesos worth,
Bruce

[Maura]

Making her put half her money into a bank account is a little controlling, but a good lesson in a good habit. I would not want a girl who is less mature than other girls her age to have a car of her own. She will be driving yours and can put some money into the extra car insurance, as well as buy her own gas.

I'd say let her buy the heifer. It's her money that she has earned and she should be allowed to spend it as she likes (within reason). I've seen kids put all their earned money into fast food and movies, so maybe she's more mature than you are giving her credit for.

[bumpus]

.
A calf increases in value and can make you money,
and they can be bread and multiply into a herd.

A car decreases in value and you lose money everyday, plus insurance, gasoline, maintenance, tires, personal property taxes, and body injuries in car wrecks, etc.

And when you are done with the old cow
you can make hamburger and eat it.

Ever try eating a car ?

bumpus
.

[Freeholder]

What if she got a dairy breed heifer and used her to raise bottle calves for sale? I'm just trying to think of some way to make money with a cow on a small piece of land, and it seems like keeping the cow as a nurse cow might be one way to do it. Also, a dairy cow could supply the household with dairy products, which could be credited to her keep.

I agree with those who would rather see her have a heifer than a car! If she was mine, a car wouldn't even be in the picture until she was ready to move out on her own.

Kathleen

[Jan in CO]

Some good ideas! Yes, it's a bit controlling to make her save half of the money, but that was the arrangement when she entered the beef project, that she would buy all the feed, pay the vet costs, etc. She's done that from her checking account, and saved the other half towards a car. We also do the 'jar' savings thing. Kind of like budgeting, but she has several nice jars and each one is for a specific purpose, gifts, savings, 4H projects, church donations, spending, etc. When she gets money for something, like selling lambs, puppies, or what not, she divides the money and puts it in the jars. Our lessen with this is to learn not to spend every penny that crosses your palm, but to save for specifics. We use the addition/subtraction as part of her general math, too.

I've told her some day she will need to pay rent, utilities, food, gas, etc. This way, she'll hopefully get in the habit of saving money for needs not just spending on wants. Jan in Co

[Ark]

Originally Posted by Jan in CO

Some good ideas! Yes, it's a bit controlling to make her save half of the money, but that was the arrangement when she entered the beef project, that she would buy all the feed, pay the vet costs, etc. She's done that from her checking account, and saved the other half towards a car. We also do the 'jar' savings thing. Kind of like budgeting, but she has several nice jars and each one is for a specific purpose, gifts, savings, 4H projects, church donations, spending, etc. When she gets money for something, like selling lambs, puppies, or what not, she divides the money and puts it in the jars. Our lessen with this is to learn not to spend every penny that crosses your palm, but to save for specifics. We use the addition/subtraction as part of her general math, too.

I've told her some day she will need to pay rent, utilities, food, gas, etc. This way, she'll hopefully get in the habit of saving money for needs not just spending on wants. Jan in Co

Wow, yall are doing a great job. Keep it up!!
My vote is for the cow - my oldest child is only 14, and it has been my opinion for EVER that 16, and even 17 is too young for their "own" vehicle.

Does she have a job? Why would she need a car?

[Windy in Kansas]

Let's see--a car is only a money pit. On the other hand a critter is also a money pit but the money can be recovered.

The car takes gas and the critter takes feed.

Oil and filter changes for the car, shots and vet fees for a critter.

Depending upon how long held the car will depreciate a lot whereas the critter will not bring as much if they are really old, otherwise may be worth considerably more than first cost.

Fun with both, more lasting memories with the critter probably. Also less danger in all probability.

Her call, but I personally would let her know I'm behind her for the income producer.

I know a number of kids that got cattle when still in high school and almost without exception they have much more money than any of their friends ever did or probably will. Seems to set them on the right path for money management.

[Cheryl in SD]

My uncle gave each of his sons a calf every year starting about age 12-14? They all paid for college with the money they generated off those small herds. They also learned to manage a herd of their own.

[sellis]

get her the calf , she may be able to us the money selling the calves to get her a car, also as one person said it she wont get into trouble playing with a cow

[Shygal]

Originally Posted by Jan in CO

Some good ideas! Yes, it's a bit controlling to make her save half of the money, but that was the arrangement when she entered the beef project, that she would buy all the feed, pay the vet costs, etc. She's done that from her checking account, and saved the other half towards a car. We also do the 'jar' savings thing. Kind of like budgeting, but she has several nice jars and each one is for a specific purpose, gifts, savings, 4H projects, church donations, spending, etc. When she gets money for something, like selling lambs, puppies, or what not, she divides the money and puts it in the jars. Our lessen with this is to learn not to spend every penny that crosses your palm, but to save for specifics. We use the addition/subtraction as part of her general math, too.

Are you SURE she isn't as mature as most other kids her age? She sounds like she is far above them all, to me!

[sewtlm]

Just how much were you expecting to spend on a car? A bottle baby is way cheaper.

Yes the heifer could die but she could have a car wreck too.

By the way you don't need a Vet very often after you learn to do shots and regular care yourself.

All my livestock projects got me college scholarships even better than the valedictorian/solutatorian and kept me to busy to waste my time drinking and running around with loosers. My CAR just got me to school.

There is also a loan program throught the USDA created for 4-H and FFA students for the purchase of farm items and livestock. It also helps to create good credit for later loans. We have used this program to buy market lambs in April and paid the loan off after the fair auction showing a profit every time. DD has been saving this money to buy breeding sheep for next year.

In my family an inexpensive car was/is provided for a students use as long as their grades were good because it was the students JOB to get good grades not provide money for their personal use IE off farm JOB to pay for car/insurance/gas/clothes/food this as a parent is my JOB. This taught us that education was important and not to be wasted. Learning to handle money is important but so is an education.

As a former 4-Her and now a 4-H leader/MOM I think you need to look at this from a different angle and see the positives verses the negatives at least with the cow you will know where your kid is a 10:00pm and not worry so much about STDs.

[Jan in CO]

Ashley is pretty experienced at the 'Vet' things, as she has been in market beef projects for two years already. I think the car 'want' is just because some of the other kids her age have gotten pickups or cars lately. She is homeschooled, so doesn't really need to drive anywhere on a daily basis, and COULD drive my vehicle to 4H meetings, the store in town, etc.

We've been tossing around the idea of going into 'partnership' with her, with a written contract, and buying a cow/calf pair, with the cow being bred back, then letting her have the calf to raise, we keep the cow, and the prospective calf would be co-owned. She could buy our share if it's a heifer and keep it to raise, or pay us half the market price when she shows and sells it, keeping the rest of the profit for herself for another cow/calf or whatever.

My aunt and uncle gave each of their children a cow from their herd when they were born, and all the progeny from that cow were the make up of a herd for them when they grew up. The steers were sold, the heifers kept as breeders, etc. Made it nice for them. Of course, they have hundreds of acres of land, and can do that. We only have 10, so are limited on what we can produce.

I think we're leaning more and more towards the animal purchase, and let the car wait until she is older! Thanks for the insights! Jan in Co