Compare / Contrast: Vinegar Mix -vs- Roundup?

[Nel frattempo]

I have been reading a lot this week (thanks to the threads and thoughts) after posting on the other thread "Compare / Contrast: Organic vs Sustainable" and I even bought the vinegar/salt materials to make the Vinegar based weed killer. After I read online, however, I read that the Vinegar mix (just like the Roundup) kills everything it hits and even makes the soil sterile for one site said "years". So - what is the difference? (please don't fuss at me - I am sincerely asking). If roundup is "bad" since it kills everything in its path, but the vinegar does too? Then why use "natural" vinegar but not the Roundup?

Is it a matter of what else the Monsanto Company may do in the world as suggested on the other thread? I do not know anything about them but is it maybe to keep them from getting my money that I should not buy Roundup?

Or is it a "money" matter? The roundup is so expensive and some times I feel as if anything that costs too much is seen as "bad" and that less expensive things (even if they do the same thing) are seen as "good"? Is that it?

Thank you for thoughts and views on this too.

[fishhead]

What's the recipe? I skimmed the 3 pages in that thread but must have missed it.

[KatieTx]

Originally Posted by Nel frattempo

I read that the Vinegar mix (just like the Roundup) kills everything it hits and even makes the soil sterile for one site said "years".

Wow, vinegar must be some pretty powerful stuff, to make soil sterile for 'years', I would question that part of your research. I can see the salt portion maybe burning the weeds, and killing them, but unless it was extremely salty, not sterilizing????

[chickflick]

Originally Posted by Nel frattempo

If roundup is "bad" since it kills everything in its path, but the vinegar does too? Then why use "natural" vinegar but not the Roundup?

Is it a matter of what else the Monsanto Company may do in the world as suggested on the other thread? I do not know anything about them but is it maybe to keep them from getting my money that I should not buy Roundup?

Or is it a "money" matter? The roundup is so expensive and some times I feel as if anything that costs too much is seen as "bad" and that less expensive things (even if they do the same thing) are seen as "good"? Is that it?

Thank you for thoughts and views on this too.

I'm going to take a 'leap of faith' here and comment: Vinegar is made from? (answer: apples) Roundup is made from? (answer: god only knows!) (IF you need a reason: I know I'd rather have my kids, neighbors, or dogs walking on a known substance.)
When you make your 'natural' weed killer, be sure to use Bragg's Apple CIder Vinegar.. (or some other brand that has 'the mother'). It is REAL vinegar like back in the old days. The over the counter stuff at the grocery store has been strained, and ??? to the point that it has lost most of its' Healthy/Potent properties. (You can also use it daily in a water solution to drink to keep youself healthy).

I'm not a sales person.. I just studied this years back and have a bottle in my cabinet. Let me see if I can find a website for you.... ??? Ahh.. here we go:
Real vinegar

[Liese]

Interesting post Nel, my chemist husband and I were just discussing this the other evening because we are overwhelmed with poison ivy but I had read that Round up type stuff was disallowed in Europe since it does bad things to the water supply, etc. Then we got a catalog from Seven Springs with a "natural " weed killer made from vinegar. We didn't come to much of a conclusion (more talk tonite) but yes the vinegar is going to change the soil Ph so much that I would think even the soil microbes & other good guys will either die off or vacate. And the Romans knew that to vanquish their enemies, salting the fields brought many to heel quickly since it is a long term damage. Now neither one of us is probably doing acres at a time but wherever you use this mixture will probably be very poor growing for awhile, without testing who knows how long. We are choosing to cut the ariel roots (some more than 2" thick) of the P.I. And graze the goats and sheep on it too. Yours in itchiness!

[Windy in Kansas]

The active ingredient in Roundup is glyphosate. Glyphosate is a contact herbicide that is systemic in that it goes throughout the plant to do the killing. As said glyphosate is non-selective and pretty much kills everything it gets onto.

HOWEVER with glyphosate there is no residual and new crops can be planted in the now barren ground within just a few days.

Many of those reading will know how tenacious Bermuda grass is. A number of years ago fairly early in the spring I water some Bermuda to get it actively growing and then sprayed it according to label directions with Roundup. The label said I could plant another crop after a week. At that time it didn't look to me like the Bermuda was quite dead yet so I waited until the 10th day before roto-tilling and planting the new crop. End result three or four sprigs the next year that I treated individually and the first year no Bermuda to fight all growing season.

Monsanto Roundup has been around a long time now is deemed about as safe as any chemical herbicide can be. When one needs to use a non-selective herbicide I highly recommend it if labeled for what you need to do. I'd buy generic glyphosate instead of paying for the name however. There are quite a number on the market.

Your choice as to what you use. Perhaps use some of each on different areas to see the end results for yourself.

[Nel frattempo]

I cannot get all the sites to post......here is one I read

* Posted by Rosa 4-ish CO Rockies (My Page) on
Tue, Sep 27, 05 at 6:58

Salt can sterlize the soil. Not a pretty sight and not to be used for killing vegetation with or without vinegar. Definately not along creeks either.
Realistically, if you wanted to kill everything along this creek you would probably need 15-20ish ounces of roundup concentrate to do the entire job and definately less than a quart of product.
Personally I would start with the brambles and broadleaf weeds first using products that are more specific to them.
Why are you trying to eliminate all the grasses as well?

[Nel frattempo]

Sorry -- my computer has hickups or something......the below is some of what I read online. NOT MY RECIPES - from online

Here are two homemade recipes to try. Both should be used only on plants that you want to get rid of, taking care not to spray any on surrounding plants. These are most effective when used on emerging weeds.

* 1 tablespoon of gin
* 1 tablespoon of apple cider vinegar
* 1 teaspoon of liquid dish soap
* 1 quart of hot water

Alternate version:

* 1 gallon of distilled vinegar
* 1 cup of salt
* 1 tablespoon of liquid dish soap

Spray these directly on weeds in the garden or pour directly into cracks of walks and driveways.

By Ellen Brown
Http://www.sustainable-media.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Posted by JAYK 8b (My Page) on
Mon, Sep 26, 05 at 21:10

While you may get some top-kill, vinegar will not control the majority of the weeds in your situation since it does not travel to the roots of the weeds. Also understand also that highly concentrated vinegars are much more toxic and much more dangerous to the applicator than the Roundup you might use in the same situation. Roundup will also be less expensive, as long as you purchase the concentrated product and dilute it yourself. Your recipe of vinegar and salt is much more likely to be environmentally damaging, especially used near drainages and creeks.

Here is a link that might be useful: Purdue link

[morrowsmowers]

I had read somewhere that you could just use vinegar to kill weeds, etc. and we have done it for the past few years. I just fill a spray bottle with plain vinegar from the store shelf and spray grass and weeds -- they turn brown in about a days time and that's it.

I had heard some folks used to spray weeds with diesel fuel to kill them -- really great for the environment.

Ken in Glassboro, NJ

[CGUARDSMAN]

i could see where the vinegar and a little salt would be good diluted for weeds in the drive but wouldn't want to use is around other plants.

[EDDIE BUCK]

If the price of Roundup is the reason you would try the vinegar, if you have much to spray I believe you would be money ahead to go with the generic "ROUND-UP"glyphosate 41% like WINDY IN KANSAS said.It comes in many names, but if its 41%, its the same as original RU, but at half the price. The last I bought was 60 bucks for a two and a half gallon jug, and that aint bad. Right now "AGRI-SUPPLY.COM" has it for 47 or 48 bucks. Even if you have to have it shipped, you'll still beat the RU price. Just a thought.

[paintlady]

Household vinegar that you buy in the store isn't potent enough to do much damage and it won't kill the roots of the weeds. Concentrated vinegar is really nasty stuff. It is not approved for organic use. If you get it on your skin it will burn you. It will however severly stunt weeds and kill off the growth of the plant but again, it won't kill the roots of the plant. Trust me- we used to use it years ago. The EPA does not approve of it's use although there are some who would still like to have people think it is okay to use on organic crops because it is "vinegar". I think the difference between that and Roundup is that weeds don't become immune to it like they do to Roundup and the concentrated vinegar is not a poison. Flameweeding is a good way to go if you have the equipment.

[Pony]

I use vinegar on the "crack weeds" each year. (Those are the weeds that come up in the cracks in the patio.)

Works for just the current year, and then -- BANG! -- they're back again the following Spring.

So maybe it's the salt that causes long-term issues, but just plain old straight vinegar doesn't seem to linger long enough here.

Pony!

Salt will deffinitely kill your ground. We have salt water injection wells here in the oil field and when one springs a leak, it kills all vegetation for several years. When it happens to farmers, they usually haul dirt in to cover it up so they can farm the ground again. Sometimes a bad leak will kill over 1/4 acre.

[savinggrace]

:

Originally Posted by Pony

I use vinegar on the "crack weeds" each year. (Those are the weeds that come up in the cracks in the patio.)

Works for just the current year, and then -- BANG! -- they're back again the following Spring.

So maybe it's the salt that causes long-term issues, but just plain old straight vinegar doesn't seem to linger long enough here.

Pony!

Hi,

I treat my crack weeds with salt! Table salt. And similarly to your vinegar treatment they return the following year (or later the same year in some cases)

Hmmm....maybe our weeds are just indestructable around here?

[palani]

I have a pvc pipe with an angled section about a foot long at the bottom. On the angled section there is a rope wick installed. The idea is fill the pipe with roundup that has around 3x the concentration as you would normally spray. Just touch or wipe the weed targeted with a concentrated dose to kill it. Surrounding plants and ground are not affected.

I expect vinegar would not perform as well but it would be an interesting experiment. Do you have to wet the entire surface of the plant with the vinegar solution to kill it?

[minnikin1]

You can always neutralize vinegar with baking soda. Maybe you could use the vinegar and once the PI is dead, shovel in some baking soda to correct the ph.

Vinegar is still a naturally occurring substance. Nature makes it and nature
can readily assimilate it back into the cycle.
Round-up? Who knows? Don't forget Monsanto was recently sued by European countries for claiming that Round-up does not cause residual environmental damage, and Monsanto lost. Apparently those claims are false.

Salt? I think where you use it and how much is key. Every time there is a salt water flood, large areas are contaminated by salt and yet nature recovers somehow.
And salt can be diluted.
Maybe if you read the arguments for and against the salting of highways in wintertime, you can find out more about the pros and cons of using salt?
Personally, I would only use it in areas where I wanted long -term weed control - like savingrace mentioned, for crack weeds, or for weeds up against building foundations.

I like the burn method, which you obviously can't do with PI because of the toxic smoke, but that is what I use on our evil burdocks.
I think I am going to try the vinegar recipe that was listed here on the burdock this year, just to see.

Maybe you could just pierce the soil so there are holes going to the roots and then use boiling water?

[bill not in oh]

Does anyone salt their fence lines?

[Dirtslinger]

I have found salt/vinegar, water, and a bit of dishsoap to allow it to bond to waxy weeds to act as a defoliant. But most weeds come back. Oxalis and pearlwort seemed to be exterminated, though my main issue was grasses and that remained.

[menollyrj]

Originally Posted by minnikin1

You can always neutralize vinegar with baking soda. Maybe you could use the vinegar and once the PI is dead, shovel in some baking soda to correct the ph.

I think the sodium in the baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) would have a similar effect as salt (sodium chloride). You would probably be better off neutralizing with lime (calcium oxide or calcium hydroxide, depending on type).

-Joy