How much land do I need?

Tervetuloa · #1 05/20/07, 06:19 PM

I was just wondering how much land I should be planning on purchasing when I get out of college and have enough money?

I would like to have:
3-4 yaks (I hear their meat is healthier than beef and you can collect their wool)
2-3 llamas (For fiber and to protect the sheep)
1 dairy goat (I'm addicted to feta cheese! This is a 'must have' lol!)
4 horses (Will probably have more, but I like to pretend I'll cap it at 4)
3 sheep (Not sure how many sheep to get, but I love fiber)

veggie garden to sustain 2 people (Because I should eat something besides meat even if it's an icky vegetable, and I may want to get married some day. Though by the looks of my animal list, I'm thinking the smell would scare off any pursuers LOL!!!)

root cellar (not too sure on how to keep things preserved without a fridge, but I'm still in the learning stage)

small/cozy little home (the smaller it is, the less cleaning and more time spent with the animals/garden)

I need more information on yaks and their diet requirements, so I'm pretty uneducated in this department. Llamas are very cheap to feed. They eat grass hay. I'm guessing goats and sheep have the same food requirements of llamas. Horses might as well eat dollar bills. I'd like enough land to be completely self sufficient. So making my own hay and grain for the animals somehow. Being able to rotate pastures to save them from being mud pits.

My biggest dream is to find property that backs up to a huge state park. Then I have miles upon miles to trail ride through. However, I think this dream may never be realized given that I have 2 requirements. 1. I don't want to be apart of one of those stupid 10 acre parcel subdivisions where you pay a HOA fee that can change at any time and goes towards.... what? 2. I'd rather not pay over $100,000 for a piece of land. I'll be working forever before I get my land and that's contradictory to my goals- living a healthier lifestyle out of the city with no genetically engineered foods or hormones in meat and milk.

But for now, does anyone have any suggestions on how much land I should be expecting to purchase given my list of animals rivaling Noah's ark?

Thanks!

Junkmanme · #2 05/20/07, 06:27 PM

First I would make the money to buy the land.......and the amount of money will probably "dictate" the amount of land that you can get AND MAINTAIN without giving yourself "ulcers".

just my 2 pesos worth,

Keep with it......it'll come to you!
Bruce

tinknal · #3 05/20/07, 06:31 PM

Oh dear, where to start...............

First I'd advise to forget the yaks and llamas. Any health improvement for yaks over beef would be marginal at best and you can achieve the same results with grass fed beef without the hassel of finding rare brood and breeding stock. Llamas at least are cheap and easy to find (because they are worthless). As for how much land................. it is a big country and land differs so much that that question is impossible to answer without at least a general location. It could be anywhere from 5 to 100 acres. Same goes for price. Coastal land in your price range could be hard to find. You may get plenty in other areas. Do you plan to work outside the farm? If so you need to be within driving distance of folks who employ those in your field (whatever that may be). Sorry to be a stick, but you need to research the real world a bit and have realistic plans.

tinknal · #4 05/20/07, 06:32 PM

BTW, since you want to keep bovines anyway, forget the goat and get a milk cow. A good cow can easily give you milk AND raise you some beef at the same time.

Tervetuloa · #5 05/20/07, 06:50 PM

If soil quality is lower, do you have to have more land to grow the same amount of hay/grain? I know that I could purchase 100 acres and only have 2 that are flat enough to farm on. But I guess what I'm asking is that given the soil is healthy and the land is flat, how many acres do I need for these animals and other things?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

Sorry to be a stick, but you need to research the real world a bit and have realistic plans.

Is there is a good book you can recommend that answers these questions, or talks about how to find quality land and what to look for? I have time to educate myself right now, but not the money to buy. No sense in waiting till I have the money to begin educating myself!

Thanks for the replies!

mtman · #6 05/20/07, 06:57 PM

with the animals you want you better get out of school work a while then ask again

Tervetuloa · #7 05/20/07, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtman

with the animals you want you better get out of school work a while then ask again

Oh why is that?

Besides, it's summer vacation! What else should I be doing? I start 1 summer course in a week though. I'll be applying to nursing school in October. Wish me luck! If I get in, you won't hear a peep out of me for about 1.5 years.

tinknal · #8 05/20/07, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tervetuloa

If soil quality is lower, do you have to have more land to grow the same amount of hay/grain? I know that I could purchase 100 acres and only have 2 that are flat enough to farm on. But I guess what I'm asking is that given the soil is healthy and the land is flat, how many acres do I need for these animals and other things?

Is there is a good book you can recommend that answers these questions, or talks about how to find quality land and what to look for? I have time to educate myself right now, but not the money to buy. No sense in waiting till I have the money to begin educating myself!

Thanks for the replies!

Location is much more than just soil quality. Hillside land can be very productive for livestock, but have you considered climate? 100 acres of AZ desert is not the same as 100 acres of midwest loam. First thing you need to do is tell us where you want to live.

Tervetuloa · #9 05/20/07, 08:01 PM

I've always been fond of the smoky mountains. I hear TN is a nice place to live, but really with the field of nursing, I could live anywhere.

I love the mountains. Any mountains really.

Does anyone have a livestock list similar to mine? How much land did you decide on to support your animals? Where abouts do you live? Anyone live in the mountains and have a flat chunk of land or valley near a mountain or hillside?

tinknal · #10 05/20/07, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tervetuloa

I've always been fond of the smoky mountains. I hear TN is a nice place to live, but really with the field of nursing, I could live anywhere.

I love the mountains. Any mountains really.

Does anyone have a livestock list similar to mine? How much land did you decide on to support your animals? Where abouts do you live? Anyone live in the mountains and have a flat chunk of land or valley near a mountain or hillside?

Will you put up your own hay or buy in the winter? Will you raise grain or buy? Will you finish your cattle on grain or grass? Any milkers? Large garden? Are you going to sell produce? Are you willing to do all the work or will you hire out?

In my area you are talking around 30 to 40 acres, give or take.

Ed0517 · #11 05/20/07, 09:13 PM

Best to have at least 2 goats if you want any. Very social animals.

Danaus29 · #12 05/21/07, 07:24 AM

Buy as much as you can afford. Even if you don't have it all in active garden or pasture / hayfield you can let some grow into prairie or woodlots. Even put in a pond if you want. There's land in Ohio by the Wayne National Forest that is pretty cheap still. I don't know the topography of the area but there are some pretty large tracts available. Not too many big cities close to the area, that's why dh won't look at land there. We still need his income to pay for our house, or any land we would buy.

OldNavyGoat · #13 05/21/07, 07:53 AM

You need to research the areas you are interested in to find out how many acres are required to support an animal.

In New Mexico, you may need 50 acres to support a cow/calf pair. In the coastal plain of Texas, we only need one acre per cow/calf pair.

There is no easy answer to your question.

Rose, posting on Old Navy Goat's moniker

pixelphotograph · #14 05/21/07, 08:24 AM

you can easily fit 2-3 lamas on an acre of land and be comfortable but people all too often put horses on not enough land.
Comfortably for a horse I say you need at least 2 acres per horse.
I believe sheep require a great deal of pasture as well I could be wrong but as they are 4 legged grass eating lawnmowers I would think they need alot of pasture.
Yaks I have no clue.
1 dairy goat wont make feta cheese. You need two goats male and female to breed the female so she will have babies and make milk. She wont make milk forever so then you would need to breed her again. 2-5 goats can live comfortably on an acre. But remember with all these animals like horses, goats, and sheep you will need quite a bit of pasture or you are going to have to buy alot of feed. Horses eat like a horse and its alot. You also need enough room for all the poop. Lamas are pretty nice they poop in piles like a kitty litter box horses go alot and go anywhere they dang well please. Thats why its nicer to have plenty of pasture as they can fertilize it and spread it out further causing less disease and build up. If they are on cramp space its not healthy for the animals. (I know lots of people who have horses on much less space but then they also give lots of antibiotics and more work cleaning hooves and checking their animals too)
Again alot of good information has already been posted that I wont repeat. What you are proposing is no small feat. I wish you well and good luck.

jen74145 · #15 05/21/07, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tervetuloa

I was just wondering how much land I should be planning on purchasing when I get out of college and have enough money?

I would like to have:
3-4 yaks (I hear their meat is healthier than beef and you can collect their wool)
2-3 llamas (For fiber and to protect the sheep)
1 dairy goat (I'm addicted to feta cheese! This is a 'must have' lol!)
4 horses (Will probably have more, but I like to pretend I'll cap it at 4)
3 sheep (Not sure how many sheep to get, but I love fiber)

veggie garden to sustain 2 people (Because I should eat something besides meat even if it's an icky vegetable, and I may want to get married some day. Though by the looks of my animal list, I'm thinking the smell would scare off any pursuers LOL!!!)

A suggestion... ditch the exotics. Hard to find, hard to sell, hard to fence adequately, hard to provide the right feed for.... just not for beginners. Start small and slow with the critters, the first year the garden and chickens, maybe a few rabbits might be enough, as well as growing extra to put up to feed your stock over the winter.
You really need more than one goat... six standard does and their kids to the acre if it's ood pasture.
Conversely, why so many horses? Just so expensive to care for, and when will you have time to keep four horses exercised? Iffy to let other people ride them, could hurt the horse, and heaven help you if someone is sue happy and gets a bump.
If you are so inoto fiber, maybe try fiber rabbits as a start, then a mixed herd of fiber/dairy goats... angora or cashmere buck and a couple does, as well as a couple heavy dairy girls? You can breed them to the fiber buck and eat the resulting kids.
Start small, sizewise, too... learn to handle/medicate/trim the feet of a goat before you go messing with critters weighing half a ton or more. Make sure your budet allows you to do everythin they need, then slowly expand.

CJ · #16 05/21/07, 09:57 AM

I highly second the suggestion for skipping the exotics... and the horses. If you stick to small livestock, such as goats and sheep, poultry and waterfowl, rabbits and pigs, your land requirements will be greatly reduced, and small livestock are much easier to care for. Not just in physically handling them, but also you can do your own slaugherting.

The Wandering Quilter's Life in a Box!

oz in SC · #17 05/21/07, 10:26 AM

Buy as much land as possible.

We have 17 acres and it will not be enough for the dreams we had,it WILL be enough for the reality of living simpler.

Also you really should choose a region you like and concentrate on that region.

When we were looking I kept expanding the net wider and wider and still could never find 'the place'.

Without even trying we found it much closer to our current location in an area I had given up on due to cost.

I would think that you should try and base your homestead within easy driving distance of your future job location.Easy driving distance in ALL sorts of weather too,not just in summer.

As to animals,I would start small and be prepared well in advance of any animals arrival as to their needs.

We will probably take a few years to get to the point where I can have my dream of owning longhorn cattle,and that is fine.

Better than getting the animals of your dreams and finding them to be a nightmare instead.

Good luck.

chris30523 · #18 05/21/07, 10:31 AM

We live in an area similar to Tenn. in climate.We have 30 acres 5 horses and 30 goats.The goats do fine and if I had more fence I would not have to feed as much,the horses have to be fed hay and grain or they would ruin my pasture and hay field.With 30 acres my animals are self supporting (This year we will probably go in the hole).We harvest enough hay to feed them and are able to sell some of the hay.Our equipment is paid for after years of payments and hard work.I don't milk my goats I just sell the bucklings for meat ,and the doelings(If I have any) I sell with papers.That money buys the grain,medications and vet bills.That is in a perfect year.This year being so dry this early doesn't bode well for the hay buisness or the garden for that matter.It takes a full day for the things to get done around here.I don't think I could do it if my DH didn't work and I tried to do it myself.That is not to say you shouldn't keep dreaming and planning.On a small scale on a nursing salary you could have a pretty nice place .Some of my best times were spent dreaming and planning.Now the best times are when the chores are done and I can sit down and enjoy what DH and I have done.

Wolf mom · #19 05/21/07, 10:50 AM

This question has come up before & my answer has always been as much as you can afford. Just make sure it's good land, not all vertical and rocky. Then you can do whatever you wish. Land is always a good investment in my book.

This year my answer would change. My new answer is: it depends upon your age. You're young, so I'd say as much as you can afford. At my age (near retirement & alone) I'd say only as much as you can be the steward for. I have 5 acres, & soon to be working (horse, donkey, chickens, orchard, garden) More than enough for me & keeps people from being too close.

booklover · #20 05/22/07, 01:39 PM

I'd definitely skip having a goats if you want them just for feta. Most traditional fetas are made from sheep's milk. American versions from cow's milk. Bulgarian, French, Greek, Turkish, etc. are usually made all from sheep's milk (dh is from the middle east and is quite the feta connoisseur). When we grocery shop while visiting the in-laws, the 2 or 3 dozen different fetas to choose from are all from sheep's or cow's milk, if I remember correctly. You would save yourself a lot of money/land just by raising sheep and skipping the goats.