Do it your self or hire it done?

[hunter63]

As with a lot of people, we have been saving, dreaming, planning building "The Place" for a number of years.
Land paid for, cabin paid for, looking at adding a garqage and pole building.
(never believe all the "stuff").

Cabin was built by the Amish, I did all the inside finishing, electrical, plumbing etc by working almost every weekend for a summer.

"The Place" is +/- 200 miles, 4 hr away, and with the price of fuel just the trips out and back run $100+ per week end.

I have often thought that maybe it would have been better to "hire it done" than to "DIY".

I am condersidering several factors;
1) DIY + doing it they way you want, at the time you want (provided you know what your doing).

2) Save money (but are you?) Pros do it faster, right equipment etc. And of course fuel costs.
(need to find a GOOD pro, hard to come by, sometimes)

3) Almost all the alloted time is used up "working on" instead of " all the reasons we wanted "The Place" in the first place". (Read burn out).

Also DW's new boyfriend would have a lot of toys to play with when I've worked my self to death. (Joke)

4) I am aware of the friend factor, some people LIKE to help you, but I still feel wrong about "inviting" a friend, then working him/her for the week end.
Been "used myself" and like to know what I'm getting into with an invite.

Any thoughts? How is everybody handling this?

[NWoods_Hippie]

I think that the difference in your situation and mine is the expense of traveling back and forth to the Stead. I planted myself where I want to be for now, so I don't have to drive, I simply can't imagine putting out that kind of money for gas every weekend!

I do everything I can do myself, or with the assistance of friends, who I then help with projects of their own, it is a total 50/50 give and take thing for us. If there is something I can't figure out how to do I ask for advice and go at it again, and then call in the friends if I get over my head.

In your situation with all the traveling expense it might be better and more cost effective to "hire it done".

Margie

[turtlehead]

My main consideration, if I were in your position, would be that if I hired it out, there might be corners cut or sloppy workmanship. There is a lot that gets done in a week between your visits, and sloppy work can get covered by finishers before you even see it.

We live at our place. Some of the stuff we do ourselves and some we hire out. Things we consider when making the decision to hire out or DIY:

1. Cost to hire out vs. DIY
2. Our skill level
3. Special tools needed
4. Time required (and would our time be better spent elsewhere)

[FreeRanger]

I was in your position in 2003. Build pole barn myself using family and friends or hire professional crew... My father is retired from construction and has built many homes/cabins for family but now has Parkinsons. I am sure we still could have done it and got extended family to help but I went with the professionals. I figured there would be plently left for us to do after the shell was built, like electricity, internal shop room, and hay loft. So far all we have acomplished is the hay loft and my dad got two bay lights done on a switch at the door. Everything else is waiting for money and time.

Since you are in Wisconsin let me make a recommendation. Clearly headquarters is near me and I did not go with them. They don't have full time crews. you don't know who is going to build your barn, could be the local drunk.... Morton is expensive.....I like Northland but went with Wick. They use screws not nails, they knew to put 1/2 insullation board under the roof panels to avoid indoor raining. Not fiberglass bats which make good housing for birds. I paid extra to have the ceiling insulation and a three foot high "kick" board installed. The kick board is tongue&goove 2x8 stack from the floor up to keep livestock from kicking out the wall. Also keeps you from denting the wall with your tractor or implement.

[Macybaby]

Had to re-read this a few times and focus on the "garage and pole building" part.

DH and I have built a few pole buildings and a few garages. If you want a larger pole building, hire it done. You are dealing with some seriously heavy stuff.

This is the largest pole shed we built. It is actually two "lean to" structures with a middle section with an upper level. Didn't have to deal with anything larger than the two of us could lift. Sheetmetal is a real drag to deal with also - not like stick built or conventional siding/roofing

BTW - we don't own this place now.


We've decided if we need a pole shed, we'll hire it. But if we want a framed building that doesn't need a real tall ceiling, we'll do it ourselves. Dh has also decided not to do cement work. That takes a lot more experience to learn how to get it nice, and we don't plan on doing that much in our lifetime. He decided that after doing the floor for the addition basement LOL!

Over the years, we've done a lot of building projects (currently gutting and remodeling an old farmhouse - while living in it). The main deciding factor for us is usually the cost of the tools needed (or available to rent). If the cost of the tools is less than the cost of the contractor, we'll usually buy them and do it ourselves (but we seem to have plenty of use for the tools after that too).

I think the biggest thing is that we sort of "like" doing this kind of stuff! It's something that we enjoy doing together. But if we didn't like it, we would never have bought a "fixer upper" either LOL!

Cathy

[michiganfarmer]

Originally Posted by hunter63

As with a lot of people, we have been saving, dreaming, planning building "The Place" for a number of years.
Land paid for, cabin paid for, looking at adding a garqage and pole building.
(never believe all the "stuff").

Cabin was built by the Amish, I did all the inside finishing, electrical, plumbing etc by working almost every weekend for a summer.

"The Place" is +/- 200 miles, 4 hr away, and with the price of fuel just the trips out and back run $100+ per week end.

I have often thought that maybe it would have been better to "hire it done" than to "DIY".

I am condersidering several factors;
1) DIY + doing it they way you want, at the time you want (provided you know what your doing).

2) Save money (but are you?) Pros do it faster, right equipment etc. And of course fuel costs.
(need to find a GOOD pro, hard to come by, sometimes)

3) Almost all the alloted time is used up "working on" instead of " all the reasons we wanted "The Place" in the first place". (Read burn out).

Also DW's new boyfriend would have a lot of toys to play with when I've worked my self to death. (Joke)

4) I am aware of the friend factor, some people LIKE to help you, but I still feel wrong about "inviting" a friend, then working him/her for the week end.
Been "used myself" and like to know what I'm getting into with an invite.

Any thoughts? How is everybody handling this?

I dont hire much done. Nothing I want usually comes when I want it. It takes me a long time to get something built. I work on it till im exhausted, then take some time off. Sometimes its a coupe days, sometimes a couple weeks. Ive learned to be patient. Sometimes I get so patient I beat myself up for getting lazy. I just can stand the thought of paying contractor prices for labor. I know they have overhead, but I also know how many hours I have to work to pay them, and i dont like it.

[Mike in Ohio]

Personally I approach it as mix and match. Some things I do myself. Some things I ask friends or neighbors for a hand (and reciprocate). Then there are some things I will hire someone to help me and last but not least there are things I hire out.

So, right now they are pounding posts for fencing our north pasture. Originally I was going to use my trailer mounted auger but decided that it made more sense to hire it out. My neighbor and I will will mount the gates and string the wire (mix of high tensile and barb) ourselves.

For the addition to the cabin I am resorting to a mix of do it ourselves and hire out.

I'm really trying hard to force myself to set aside "enjoy time" where I am not working. My inclination is to keep plugging away.

As far as inviting people to the property and then having them work, we specifically tell people that we have chores and projects to get done and that we are NOT asking them to help out. We do ask that if we are busy they amuse themselves. We also ask that they pitch in and help at mealtime, pitch their own tent if they are staying overnight, etc. If someone wants to help some with a project or chore I'm not going to tell them no.

Mike

[canfossi]

I am right at the house so don't have to travel, I couldn't afford that. I hire out jobs that I know I can't do or don't have the right tools the do the job correctly. Otherwise I do it. The guy down the road comes with his backhoe for heavy things that have to be done i.e. landscaping. Chris

[hunter63]

Thanks to all.
I guess after reading your comments, that the best approach is the mix and match and will depend on the time vs money part.

Mike, I know what you mean, the "force yourself to have fun" part is hard, knowing all that has to be done. I'm kind of a Get'er done guy my self.

On previous "week off", time from the day job, to work on it, seems the best approch for me is to "punch in" @ 7:00 and "punch out" @ 5:00 like a work day, seems like what you get done/not done doesn't bother me as much.

Garage will next, digging will be hired out, as will the concrete, we'll see about the rest.
Macybaby, NICE pole barn!

It was amazing when dealing with local contractors how many job offers I have recieved, seem it's hard to get good help these days.
Maybe the thing to do is just move there and "go for it".

[Jim S.]

Well...here's a few decades of experience...

1.) If you live a rural farming or homesteading lifestyle, you must expect to work. It's just the fact of that type of existence.

2.) If you just "live in the country," that's more a life of leisure. The fewer animals and plants you have, the more leisurely your life will be.

3.) Most people would rather be lazy. There is not the inherent NEED to work hard anymore for most Americans, and they enjoy lives of relaxtion and leisure outside their workday hours.

4.) If your pool of friends comes from either #2 or #3, you are not going to get much help. They will resent it if you do lure them out and then expect a lot of work from them (above and beyond a couple hours, after which it is time for a beer or playtime). If your friends come from #1, they will be too busy most of the time to help you.

5.) Therefore, if you live a D-I-Y, rural farming/homesteading life, get used to doing it all yourself or 90% of it yourself UNLESS you pay someone else to do it for you.

The latest in a long line of examples from my decades of living these truisms is my neighbor. We went in partners on a goat herd, and he promised to help with it. I told him upfront I had all the money to buy the goats myself, but would be partners with him if he'd buy half and help me. That the help was more important to me than the rest of the deal. We bought; he did nothing. There was fence he knew from the beginning had to be put up, and he promised and promised, but actually helped set just 2 wood posts. Long story short, I gave him back his half of the money in January after over a year of working the goats myself and also building the new fence myself. He of course thinks I screwed him out of money, since the goats kidded a couple months after we split.

I'm about 3 months behind on the fence now, doing it all myself, but closing in on it. I have been fencing every chance I get. I will be fencing tonight after work. It has so far been a 7-month off-time project. Could have been 3, with help.

You see, my neighbor is living in the country, NOT living the farming/homesteading lifestyle. I hold nothing against him, it's as much my fault for not seeing it before all this, especially since he is not the first example I can dredge up of what I am trying to say.

A rural farming/homesteading life means you have to enjoy working ... or you will not be happy. If eyeing a list of projects doesn't turn you on, if focusing on a long-term job and seeing it through doesn't provide pleasure, please buy a trailer or a place already built on 5 acres and just live in the country. It is an important distinction.

I LOVE seeing projects get done, I LOVE to work, but even I get overwhelmed sometimes. I can't see how someone who does not relish work can do it, and I would discourage anyone from farming or homesteading if they do not like lots of work. It's just the fact of such a lifestyle, and you will not be happy.

[saramark]

As a carpenter/contractor, I charge $25 hourly for my services. Average hourly pay in this area is about $15-18 for a semi skilled person in this job market. I have about $8k in tools and a truck that gets beat up by the job, along with liability insurance that costs me 1000 a year. With all the expenses, I make about the same as those working for someone else, but bigger operations in this same market charge $30-38 per hour for a job foreman like me that runs his own crew. I am actually able to charge less because I don't have to follow a bunch of flunkies around making sure they work and do the job right. I would hire, if budget allowed, a small company, 2-3 guys and check in unexpectedly from time to time to see that they are working. I charge hourly and do NO bid work. I work hard all the time I am on the clock and bid work is usually where you see people cutting corners. From my side of the operation, don't do anything that may need to be fixed later. It gets expensive when people who don't know what they are doing build something only to hire me to fix their mistakes. That being said, if you know what you are doing or have a friend that does, offer to pay them and work with them. Not having a $18 per hour helper on the clock can really save you money and you will be learning as you go, so next time you can do it more yourself.

mark

[e.alleg]

I do just about everything myself. On most projects the bottom line reality is 80% of the cost is labor, 20% is materials. So with that in mind if I make a mistake building something I can re-do it again until it is done right. If it takes me more than 5 times to get it done right then I live without whatever it was. lol. Some things I hire out, those are projects that are dangerous without experience like putting in a new electrical service panel or cutting down large trees next to the power lines/house. Everything else gets done the hard and slow way. I'm also the type of person that if say, I hire someone to build me a shed. If it comes out crooked or has a defect I will be mad every time I look at it. Now that same shed, if I did it myself, could fall apart in a year and it wouldn't bother me at all.

[PyroDon]

Ok I realize homesteaders tend to be DIYers thats great but when building you have to weigh all things as was pointed out by another poster.
If you have ever noticed a contractor building a house you will see that very very few do all the work them selves. Most sub contract different portions the reason being cost. Its far cheaper in time and materials to have framers frame the house (they have the tools and expertise to do it fast) the foundations are dug by the excavator (right tool less time =less cost) plumber runs the pipes same reasons, electrician also right knowledge tools ect. roofer same deal. insulation ok here is a real example a crew of insulators can do an entire 2400sq ft house in 4 hours. this would take a novice well over a week and waste alot of insulation. the cost difference between buying the insulation and having it done is around 4 cents a sq ft . same goes for dry wall rockers can hang mud and tape an entire house in a couple days where it would take most homeowners months and the cost in wasted materials would easily out weigh the labor cost.
there is a reason these people are called professionals. They know their jobs, they know how to get them dome well and in a quick manner. another advantage is if you contract the work . if its not done right you have someone to take to court. Its hard to sue yourself for messing it up.
Now yes I am a contractor and can't even count the number of DIY jobs Ive been called in to repair. a simple 24x30 garage that should have cost around 10,000 finished ends up costing twice that when you have to dismantle the kit break out the mis-shapen concrete and start over .
Know your limitations if your not sure either study your back side off or get someone who does it for a living. personally I wouldnt touch drywall,insulation, or concrete myself for love or money

[Beeman]

A point to consider is what's important to you. You can make more money and you can hire more people but you can't buy time. If your life becomes working all week to work all weekend it can all become a burden. Turning what started out as your enjoyment into a tremendous burden, especially once it's half done.

[texican]

Depends on if you have more money or more time!

If you have lots of money, I'd pay someone to do the job.

If you have lots of time, I'd do it myself.

When I have lots of money, I usually have no time, and vice versa.

I'm building another home, and doing it all myself. Mainly because I want to have my hands on every inch of the house, and put as much quality as I can into it, so it'll last for hundreds of years. Secondly, if I pay someone (and borrow the money), I'll end up paying 3x the original work price *with interest*.

As a general rule, I refuse to pay anyone, for something that I can do. If I do pay, I insist on watching, so that I'll know how they did it, and I can DIY next time.