Roughing it while building?

Seeria · #1 05/01/07, 04:18 PM

We're scouting out properties to buy and are thinking of getting unserviced land (not sure the official word for that). Land that doesn't have electric or water/sewer service.

We were thinking of picking up the land in the spring, move a tent or RV there and rough it for the summer while building a strawbale house (not decided on type just yet). We've no intent of putting electrical to the land, put will do a well and septic system.

Our question would be: Are there any good books or resources for roughing it without electric/sewer? Is that even legal? What options are there?

So many questions... ugh.

----------------------------
Kind regards

zukgod · #2 05/01/07, 04:36 PM

Sure it's legal, camping is legal. I don't know of any books but old issues of mother earth news might be of help to you. Good luck sounds like a fun summer.

Wildcrofthollow · #3 05/01/07, 04:47 PM

Hi seeria,

We did just that. The covenants on the property said we couldn't do it, we ignored them. Course, we were back in the woods and you couldn't see our camp from the road. We had no running water (though we do have a good bold spring) no electricity (thankful for that) pretty much no nothing. Town was only 8 miles away so we could restock pretty easily. We lived in a tent off and on for a year while building what will be the toolhouse once we actually build a house. for now the toolhouse is our little cabin to live in while we build the house. you can see very outdated pics on our website www.wildcrofthollow.com if you like.

We would go out to the property early on a Friday, stay until late in the evening on Monday. Go back to our tiny little rental house in the city to work during the week. The toolhouse cabin took one year to build, working about 4 days every other weekend. This included lots of time for walks in the woods and days to just play.

Sorry all the pics are so outdated, the most recent one is now nearly a year old. The toolhouse cabin will be chinked and daubed the first week in June. Then we will start our next project, which will be a hogan style studio for my wife. WE will use it to store furniture in until the house is built. Dont plan on starting the house for at least another year.

Have you read the Humanure handbook? You might like to... Septic systems are right much money to put in. I would also steer you towards learning something about permaculture. Doing without electricity is easy in the Summer. Days are long enough that by the time you are done working on the structure for the day you are ready for bed anyway. Winters, you will definitely need a good lamp at least. Living in tents in the winter sucks. They can be made better, but it still isnt a house, and after working all day in the cold you really dont want to spend a cold night in a tent.

feel free to pm me if you would like.

Rocky Fields · #4 05/01/07, 04:57 PM

Hey.

I would skip the strawbale idea. Use logs and/or rock. The weather and animals are tough in northern WI. Go to the alternate energy forum for advise on generating your own electric...you will need it.

Forget the tent and go for a trailer/RV. We have black bear in northern WI.

RF

desnri · #5 05/01/07, 05:02 PM

We moved to our property about five and half years ago. We had a small (12 x 38) trailer to live in. It was in the middle of December. We had propane to keep warm. We got phone service about 2 weeks after we moved in. The electric came next about 3 months after moving. The water was the hardest to get, it was the most expensive. We waited nine months to get water. It can be done. We look back on those times with good memories, even though it was hard. We are thankful to have gotten the electricity in before it got hot. It's hard to go without air conditioning in Texas. The church we were going to at the time let us haul water and take showers at the parsonage. It was really quiet during the times of no electricity, I long for those quiet days sometimes.

big rockpile · #6 05/01/07, 06:34 PM

I would get a Heavy Shelter up fast as possible.For the simple fact if your working and trying to Build Winter comes on you way too fast.

big rockpile

donsgal · #7 05/01/07, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildcrofthollow

Hi seeria,

We did just that. The covenants on the property said we couldn't do it, we ignored them. Course, we were back in the woods and you couldn't see our camp from the road. We had no running water (though we do have a good bold spring) no electricity (thankful for that) pretty much no nothing. Town was only 8 miles away so we could restock pretty easily. We lived in a tent off and on for a year while building what will be the toolhouse once we actually build a house. for now the toolhouse is our little cabin to live in while we build the house. you can see very outdated pics on our website www.wildcrofthollow.com if you like.

We would go out to the property early on a Friday, stay until late in the evening on Monday. Go back to our tiny little rental house in the city to work during the week. The toolhouse cabin took one year to build, working about 4 days every other weekend. This included lots of time for walks in the woods and days to just play.

Sorry all the pics are so outdated, the most recent one is now nearly a year old. The toolhouse cabin will be chinked and daubed the first week in June. Then we will start our next project, which will be a hogan style studio for my wife. WE will use it to store furniture in until the house is built. Dont plan on starting the house for at least another year.

Have you read the Humanure handbook? You might like to... Septic systems are right much money to put in. I would also steer you towards learning something about permaculture. Doing without electricity is easy in the Summer. Days are long enough that by the time you are done working on the structure for the day you are ready for bed anyway. Winters, you will definitely need a good lamp at least. Living in tents in the winter sucks. They can be made better, but it still isnt a house, and after working all day in the cold you really dont want to spend a cold night in a tent.

feel free to pm me if you would like.

Those are great photos. You sure do look like you knew what you were doing when you built the log toolhouse/cabin. Is that you sitting in the doorway?

donsgal

Wildcrofthollow · #8 05/01/07, 07:55 PM

thanks donsgal,

no that is my wife, I am the uglier male half of the relationship. I would like to take all the credit for the cabin, but she has done half of the work. She's my partner and I'm very proud to be her husband.

Mike in Ohio · #9 05/01/07, 08:24 PM

Seeria,

One thing I highly recommend (based on our experience) is to get yourself set up as early as possible for taking showers. There is nothing better at the end of a long day working than to take a shower, wash all the dirt off and out of your hair and feel clean before you go to sleep. It could be a solar shower, whatever but I found it really makes a difference in my attitude.

Also think about food storage and how you will keep animals and insects out of your food stores.

Mike

vicker · #10 05/01/07, 08:36 PM

We lived in a tent for several months while building our place. We are off grid also. Instead of a septic system you may check into a sawdust toilet like we use. Do Yahoo or Google on "The humanure Handbook" by Joseph Jenkins. It is available for free download on the internet. We used branch water for most of a year, till we got our spring developed. Now we have a gravity fed water system, and nice spring water.

mtn.mama · #11 05/01/07, 08:37 PM

I second the (solar) shower comment. Having lived without electric and water for many many years now, and living in my tent in bear country while building my toolshed (which I called home for 5 years afterward while building a cabin)... here is my advice.

Its not a big deal to live in a tent as long as you're not cooking/eating in it. Position your "kitchen" area 75 yards away or more. Hang your food from a tree where it won't feed critters and end their lives.

If you're not up for living this rough, consider putting up a sauna house first. This is a tiny, heated structure that you can use for your kitchen instead.

Build something compact first to get you out of the weather. Make sure its winter worthy. Then take your time building your dream house. The little house can always get used for something else.

artificer · #12 05/01/07, 09:50 PM

We're planning on doing something almost similar. We purchased some property, and I'm building a 40x80 shed. The south 24' of it will be two story and insulated. Once its done, we plan to move all of our stuff from the house I'm remodeling (and living in), and start living at the property. I'll be able to finish the house quicker, then sell it. Once we have the money, we'll build the house. Underground monolithic dome construction, probably.

In Iowa county, this is what I was told about being legal for "camping." You have to get a privy permit, build the privy, get it inspected, and then have something like an RV/camper/tent/cabin. The building that you are camping in can't have a permanent supply of water (well). If you get a well, then you have to go with full blown septic system. We have to move the camper every month. No specs on how much. (can't you see it's been moved 2"?...)

The privy permit is fairly uniform throughout Wisconsin, I believe. We have to have a vault privy, since the soil isn't suitable for a traditional pit privy.

If you're away from everyone, and don't have a mailbox, then who's to know you're there? Unfortunately, someone always knows, so we decided to go as legal as possible.

Michael

jen74145 · #13 05/01/07, 11:54 PM

Stop, Stop, STOP it all of you. Making me wanna sell this place and just do it, and we need to wait at least a year or two... sigh.

Wildcrofthollow · #14 05/02/07, 06:28 AM

OMG, Yes, definitely, put together some sort of shower system. Will make you feel so much more human and less desperate.

We used a garden sprayer with a hand spray nozzle like you have on a sink in the kitchen. This was a suggestion i got from here on HT. I think it was originally Cabin Fever's suggestion. Makes a huge difference in your attitude.

NWoods_Hippie · #15 05/02/07, 06:58 AM

Seeria,

I would check the regs in whatever county you are looking at buying the property in! I live in Vilas County in N.C. Wisc., and you can not camp on your undeveloped land in this county for more than 14 consecutive days...no outhouses or pit toilots either!!

There are always ways to get around it, but in the small community I live in even if you are flying as far under the radar as possible someone is going to find out what you are doing!!

You can call the county and ask questions without having to identify yourself or where you have purchased the land!

Peace,
Margie

Seeria · #16 05/02/07, 07:30 AM

*blink* That's a lot to think about.

Thank you everyone.

We're picking up the Humanure handbook. We've decided on using an RV (which I want to rip apart and rebuild one day anyhow) not a tent. Checking on the laws will have to wait until we find property we want somewhere in upper WI. I spent years in a little cabin north of Prince George, so hard winters aren't new to me, nor are unfriendly or hungry creatures. Hubby on the other hand is now biting his nails. heh

From posts here, we're thinking building something winter secure and quick is the best route. Work the house from it later or near it. Might be easier to do a small solar power set up that way, too.

So much to do and learn! Thank you

WisJim · #17 05/02/07, 07:59 AM

We did that back in the 1970s, worked in Madison, WI all week, figured out what we were going to do on the weekend, got the truck loaded with tools and materials, and headed to our land on Friday night, worked until Sunday night, then drove home. We had a walk-out basement poured by a contractor so we had that space to camp in shortly after we got the project going. Got the house all enclosed in about a year, with no work done over the first winter. Foundation done in the fall, capped over on the long Thanksgiving weekend, then started on the actual house (locally sawn pine lumber) the next spring, moved in the following spring. The second winter, after it was closed in, we worked on it some, but access was sometimes difficult due to snow.

I would seriously consider straw bale, if you want to invest labor instead of dollars, and are able to plaster and stucco, or can take a class to learn it by doing it. http://the-mrea.org/workshops.php?id=1048460453

What part of Wisconsin are you considering?

CJ · #18 05/02/07, 08:27 AM

We intend on doing that, more or less. We have 60 acres of raw land. We already live in an RV, but it's way too big and heavy to get down to the area of the land we want to build our home on.

Our plan is to first get a road into the center of the property. It's impossible to work on the land without a road, so we can get tools and stuff in. We're too old to pack it in.

We'll install a well next. Electricity is something we're still deciding on, to have it or go off grid. We are also still yet undecided on a strawbale home (his choice) or an underground home (my choice). We both know we want to spend some time on our land to get to know it before we build our house.

We plan to clear out a small space at the top of the land by the road to park our RV. We'll haul water up from the well, too expensive to run water to both places. We have a generator, so won't worry about electric to the RV pad either.

That will take care of our creature comforts over the years while we work the land and start building on it. We figure 5-8 years before we build our house. We'd much rather develop the land first, with walking trails, a park like area, gardens and an orchard, ect.

The Wandering Quilter's Life in a Box!

Maura · #19 05/02/07, 01:28 PM

You'll need to check with your local government. In one county we lived in, you could not begin construction until you had a working well. This was because so many people were buying property to build on, then discovered there was no water under them. You will probably have to have a conventional septic system and flush toilets. The Amish here have conventional septic and flush toilets, but they build it so the bathroom is seperate from the house- looks like they are using an outhouse but they aren't. If the authorities will let you use a different kind of toilet, it would be best to use what they suggest, even if you change it later.

We put a big tent on our property, basicly a beer tent. Under the beer tent was a pup tent (bedroom), propane grill, a couple of tables, a big black horse water thing for bathing. Also, a generator, all of the stuff for infloor heating, pumps, and all kinds of housebuilding "stuff". Officially, we were only at the site on weekends and were not living there. In reality, we were living there and in the tent all summer. People would comment on how hard it must be, but if you think about how most of the world lives, it was no big deal.

littlebitfarm · #20 05/02/07, 05:13 PM

I lived on my property in a mobile home until the land was paid for. Sold the mobile home and moved into the 14 X 14 chicken shed. Did have electricity and a working garden hose from the well. Rigged up a sort of solar shower (always too cold) in the old pig shed and a sort of toliet. Lived that way for 5 months until the house was done enough to move in. NEVER asked anyone if it was legal!!!

Would do it again without question! But was grateful to go to work on the weekend and get a hot shower!

Kathie