Old gas well on land we're looking at

[CJ]

There's a 10 acre piece of land here in Russellville AR we are thinking of buying to park our RV on since DH's contract at the nuke plant keeps getting extended... we don't want to buy a house here, but some land for breathing room, a place to plant a garden, etc, would be nice.

Anyway, this piece of land has a (capped, I believe, there's not really any sign of it other than the cleared ground) gas well on it, mineral rights do not go with the land, like all the land in this area. I'd never buy land without the full bundle of rights for our permanent home though.

My question, for those of you who have experience with this, will they likely come back and tap this well for gas again? Or is it played out? What negative's are there that I have no clue about?

The Wandering Quilter's Life in a Box!

[coup]

if it is capped then they are probaly done there with it...... i wouldn't worry about it at all...... if not capped then you might get free gas there.....

[Windy in Kansas]

You may simply wish to check with the state regulating agency to determine the status of it.

Once production has ceased--at least from oil wells--the mineral rights often revert fully back to the original holder or holders. There is also a requirement to restore the land back to as near normal as possible meaning they can't leave an unplugged well. That is why I suggested checking with the state to determine the status.

You could also check county land records to see who is the holder of the mineral rights and read a copy of any lease on file to determine more about the well.

Should make for a nice little property.

[CJ]

I'll let the realtor get that info for me, then I'll follow up on it. I'm going to go back and take another look today. we've been looking for over a year here for something 10-20 acres at $3k an acre or less, and FINALLY something not surrounded by trash shows up. We'll decide almost instantly if we want to buy it, as what we are looking for just doesn't seem to come on the market here very often at all.

I just want to make sure the gas company isn't going to be back to drill, ugh.

[Michael W. Smith]

Provided it is a capped well, chances are nobody will be around to drill again. Depending on where exactly the well is on the property, along with the shape of your property, if anybody would come in to drill, chances are they would want to keep a radius of about 500' away from the old well.

We have several old wells on our property - most of which were drilled in the early 1900's. I know of at least 4 on our property of which 1 is still producing gas. Luckily we own the gas rights to the land, and in fact the old well was sold back to the our relatives years ago as it wasn't producing enough to make a profit (but still produces more than enough to heat our house).

You could always find out at the court house who owns the mineral rights on it, and contact them to see if they are interested in selling them.

But I'm guessing that the gas has been taken from under your land, and no company will be interested in drilling a new well.

[citilivin]

CJ I would check with the party that has the mineral rights. Mineral rights can and often run forever. There is no way to guarentee they will not open again. The only thing that can make it difficult are the environmental conditions that would be attached by the county or overseeing agency.

[Jim S.]

No way I would ever buy land without the mineral rights. When we lived in the next county over, there were companies that had come through in the Depression and bought up mineral rights to entire farms. They bought them thinking of coal exploration. In the mid-'80s, phosphorous was found. They came in IN THE 1990s and strip mined every stinking farm, leaving just enough soil for the house, outbuildings and driveway. Everything else was dug up, stripped out and hauled off. I saw this, it was absolutely horrible. The land owners could do nothing. This was not isolated, about a third of the whole county was dug up when they were done by the early 2000s.

Plenty tried to buy back the rights that many of them never even knew were sold way back before they bought the land. No deal.

You have no guarantees, you must provide right of way for ingress and egress, they can do what they want when they want, and the land is hugely devalued as a result.

I'd pass on it entirely. When I buy I want the mineral rights, land rights and air rights.

[Jim S.]

Originally Posted by CJ

we've been looking for over a year here for something 10-20 acres at $3k an acre or less...

Come to Lincoln County, TN! You can get rural and semi-rural spreads for $3K and less, with nice house and outbuildings. Work in Rocket City USA (Huntsville AL), where unemployment is about 2% currently.

[Michael W. Smith]

I didn't mention that since we've taken over our property from the relatives, we had leased our land and have had 5 gas wells drilled. (We own 120 acres.)

Once the well is in and the area reseeded, it's really no big deal. With DJ only looking at 10 acres, they could only put 1 well on the property, and with their being an old well there that is dried up and capped, I'm guessing the gas amount wasn't very good. I'd say there is at least a 75% chance that nobody will ever be around to look into drilling a new well.

And if they do, chances are CJ can get free gas. Once she owns the property, she should look up who owns the gas rights and see if the person is willing to sell them.

[Jim S.]

Michael, she says the mineral rights are sold...not just gas rights. Mineral rights means the right to remove ANYTHING they find under that land as long as they hold the rights. No way I'd do that. I have seen what happens when they find something they were not even looking for when the mineral rights were bought.

It is cool to be on gaseous land, though. In east Tennessee, lots of folks can just drive a sandpoint down and get all the gas they need for personal use.

[CJ]

Jim, I agree with you for the most part. I'd never buy land I intended to live and build on that I didn't own the full bundle of rights to, as I mentioned in my original post. We already own 60 acres free and clear in southern Missouri that we intend to retire on.

Hubby is on an extended contract in Russellville AR at the nuclear plant. We came down here on a 6 month contract, and it will be 3 years this July. They've pretty much told him he could stay as long as he likes.

We're fulltime in our RV, having sold our farm several years ago. Because DH is contracted, we get paid per diem. Cost of living is pretty cheap here, and while being parked long term in an RV isn't ideal, we're able to bank a bit over 50% of DH's salary by living this way. We don't have any bills, and don't intend to incur any, God willing.

With the possibility of our being here for another 5 or 6 years should we choose to stay, a small piece of land to park on and have a garden and some privacy would be heavenly, I very much miss living out in the boonies.

Nothing in the river valley has mineral rights, you can't buy land here with it. Which is why we won't move here. No way. But, 10 acres, if the gas well has been filled and there aren't any restrictions on using the land around it, would be nice for us.

I'm still waiting to find out the scoop on the gas well. There's no traces of it left. Just a big flat area that would be ideal to park the RV on and put an orchard on. The rest of it is wooded, and a very nice piece, I walked it this morning.

I also think it might make a good investment. It's 8 minutes away from Interstate 40, and 10 minutes from the Russellville super center. If we improve the land, we might get another $1000 an acre in 5 years for it. If we even just break even on it, it'd be worth it.

But it all hinges on that gas well. I have to know how that works before we plunk down $34k for a large garden

The Wandering Quilter's Life in a Box!

[Jim S.]

I know that extended contract stuff, CJ. Had a neighbor start on 3-month contract at a nuke plant; they wound up moving and selling everything.

Sounds like you are sold on the land and already emotionally attached. I just wouldn't do it, no way. But I'm not you.

[CJ]

Only twice in the 30 years DH's been a contract engineer has a contract lasted over a year, and those were back in the startup days. We know better than to buy/build a house someplace other than home (Missouri) because the second you do it, the contract ends

No big deal with land. Even when we leave here, I imagine we'll be back again, and it's the closest nuke plant to home.

But I hear you on those mineral rights. I don't like it at all. Not one little bit. I can't imagine anyone willingly selling off ANY of the rights to their land.

We've asked the realtor to check the records and find out who owns them, and if they can be purchased back.

I'll post a follow up once we know more.

The Wandering Quilter's Life in a Box!

[texican]

Mineral rights (if there are any minerals, most often oil or gas) are worth many multiples of the cost of the land. It is a rare occurence when someone *does* mineral rights with their land.....IF there are, or possibly are, minerals present.

Owners of minerals usually keep em forever... but, minerals that aren't leased are worse than worthless. Hereabouts, we're taxed on the total worth of the minerals in the ground, even though theres only so much production yearly.

Is there a 'christmas tree' on the well, CJ? Any meters? Any company signs on it? In Tx, owners have to post their names, and contact #s, on the site. Once a well is plugged, they seal it with concrete, below the surface.

A capped well is no guarantee someone else won't come in and try to redrill the well site... I had a company come in three years ago and redrilled a site that had 4 dry holes... they claimed they had 'new technology'! Sank 800K and left. Apparently they had tax writeoffs they needed. Was fine by me... got 3K for a lease, and 10K for a temporary easement on my road.

[CJ]

In our neck of the woods (southern Missouri) it's rare indeed for land to be sold without the full bundle of rights included.

As for a company sign or anything, there's nothing there, period. If the realtor hadn't said there was a gas well there, I'd never have known it. Nothing marks its existance other than the fact that the area was obviously excavated out of the hillside at some point in time.

I posted some pictures on my blog entry today.

The Wandering Quilter's Life in a Box!

[texican]

Looks like it has indeed been plugged...

If I wanted the place, I wouldn't let the well, or the mineral rights stand in the way. The well site might make a good pad for an RV or home, but the soil's probably been flipped, and compacted, and probably lots of gravel and effluvia on the surface, so probably not a good spot for a garden.

If someone did decide to redrill, the only difference, once they finished, would be a 'christmas tree', about 8' tall, standing in the middle. Also, they usually pay damages for the inconvenience. Last time I checked, it was around 8K.

[Michael W. Smith]

Hmmmmmm, our old wells that were plugged still have an old pipe up above the ground.

Since it seems that your old well has been plugged, I'm unsure what the problems is that you are letting that interfere with your decision to buy it. You have already stated, this is only going to be a temporary home. You can buy it, live on it for the 2, 4, 5 + years that your husband works there letting you garden or even raise animals.

Once your husband's job is over and you decide to go to your real home, put the property up for sale. Chances are between now and then land prices will have gone up plus whatever you've done to increase the property value.

I'd be willing to change my "bet", that you can buy the property, and you have a 99.9% chance of nobody coming around to do something with "their" mineral rights. And since it is common in your area that somebody bought the mineral rights years ago, chances are some large company has your future property's mineral rights along with hundreds of acres surrounding you. If they haven't been around lately to do anything, I'm betting they aren't going to nosing around while you own this temporary property either.

Buy the property and do your "thing" if the property is what you are looking for and the cost is in your budget. Might as well buy the property and live on it, rather than rent a place for your RV for several years and throw that money away on rent.

Of course, you could always set up and live in Walmart's parking lot for free. Your "yard" would be pavement, but at least you wouldn't have to mow it!!!!!!

Best wishes on whatever your decision!

[CJ]

Ah no... no Walmart camping. LOL

We have to know before making an offer on the place Michael, if there are restrictions on the well. Seems to me I was told or read somewhere that you can't build or do anything within 500' of a gas well. If that's the case, the land is no good to us, because it's the fact that area where the well is happens to be perfectly flat and clear, means we could simply drive right to that part of the land with the RV, without spending a dime for access.

Sure, we want to add a concrete pad, water, electric and a septic, but we don't wish to spend a small fortune just getting access onto a piece of land. It's a rare find for us to be able to pull right onto a property with our rig. It's 65' long, 13' tall, and very heavy. Most roads to property we like we can't even begin to navigate the RV into.



I'd rather spend the money that would normally cost, on improving the land with things like an orchard, landscaping, etc. And of course, if we can't put a septic near that gas well, or a pad... or plant... well that kind of rules the charm of that piece of land for us

I'm guessing to that nothing will happen with that well. But I have to know about the restrictions, if any. Other than that, I'm practically chomping at the bit, I really love the piece, and I've little doubt we could turn a nice profit on it later on.

The Wandering Quilter's Life in a Box!

[travis91]

thats a nice rig CJ.

[logbuilder]

Often on raw land, there is a provision in the offer that the sale is contingent on a feasibility study. You would usually have 30-45 days to do research to see if there is anything that would prevent you from doing what you want to do with the land. If during that period you determined that the gas well would cause you problems, you could break the contract and get your earnest money back. Might be something to consider if you are worried about someone else making an offer before you complete your research.