Welder and Torch Question

[Fire-Man]

I would Love to get a welder and torch for my "Homestead", but I have no Idea what I need. I don't want to spend a fortune for my small place, but I also don't want to buy something that will not Do The Job. I do own a 120volt stick welder---20 to 70 amp I use for light welding(rarely). I want to be able to weld fairly light metal and metal up to maybe 1/2". I would like a torch outfit that can cut flat metal up to app. 1/2"--round solid bars maybe up to 1' or so. Keeping in mind I will only use these as a hobby:

I seen some older farm equipment at the saturday farm sale that I would have been interested in if I had of had a way to cut and modify it.

I will have this Welder set-up at My On-Grid shop--So Yea I will have electricity.

Do I need a stick or wire feed welder and what size/brand would be good?
I would feel I need the 4ft or so tall bottles for the torch---What would be a good reasonable torch kit?

Do I buy the gas/oxygen bottles or rent them? I don't know!!

Which type helmet do you like----I know they have one now that shades automatically with a arc.

Thanks!! Randy

[zukgod]

Randy,

A torch on a farm is a must have in my opintion. It is just an oxygen esetalyn SP? Torch, very easy to use, they will cut through anything up to a few inches thick, I have cut railroad ties without issue.
Welder I would get a wire feed. Lincoln and Miller are both good brands. Get more welder than you think you need, and get a 220volt. I would go to a welding shop and look around, they are usually very helpfull. You will need a helmet and gloves, I like an auto dark helmet which makes it very easy to see but is a bit more expensive, you can get a decent one at harbor frieght. Hope thie helped a little bit.

Josh

[flaswampratt]

I own and operatea small welding company.

For the most bang for the buck, get yourself a Lincoln 220v. buzz box, and learn how to stick weld. Better penetration, more virsatle. A welding supply house, home depression or lowes usually carries these new for about 175-200 dollars.

As for a torch set up, you canget a Victor clone torch and regulator set from your local welding supply house for about 150 dollars. You don't need an actual VICTOR set, you'll only be paying for a brand name.

Can't gowrong with an old school type welding helmet, although theauto darkening ones are nice. I don't own one, one drop from a couple of stories up or caught in a rain shower and it's toast.

Bottle rentals cost me 5.00 each per month, unless you are using alot of cutting gasses, I would suggest you buy the smaller 4' bottles, they are called "S Type" bottles down here.

Safety, Safety, Safety.

Read the safety instructions, particularly on setting your gas regulators.

Good luck, and have fun.

Best Regards....

<///><

[madness]

I agree with the 220v wire feed. I have a 110v and it just doesn't do all that much. Great for little stuff but not very versatile. I just use mine for portability since the big welder I have is pretty ---- near impossible to move anywhere.

For a torch, go with the Victor #2 size in my opinion. It's bigger than the #1 which can be a pain for doing lots of work where you can't rest your hand on something since it weighs more (yes, I'm a girl), but it's a more common size and you can get lots of stuff for it on ebay. And yeah, go for the clone, not the name brand.

[moopups]

Concerning the welder, for farm use an AC/DC 220 volt buzz box is the better choice, both types of currant application are desired. The AC type only is a pain because of the magnetic field that develops upon striking the arc. The combo set up is easier to learn.

For the torch tanks, get the largest owner type tank that is allowed in your area, and use propane for the fuel, much cheaper than acetylene. Of course it takes a special type tip, at about $15.00 each.

Concerning cutting very thick metals, just turn your oxygen regulator up to 80 pounds or so, you can slice railroad rails very easily at that setting. Never take the fuel tank setting above 15 PSI. Never open an acetylene tank without the gages in place, its own friction can ignite it via the escaping gas if the gages are not present.

Normal oxygen setting is 30 PSI or lower, for 1/2 inch thickness or less. Rod types most common are 6013, the most versatile rod, will weld horizontal, vertical, and overhead. 6010 will weld through most contamination. 6022 will weld roofing tin to train rail, known as a drag rod. 7018 is also common; some rods will only weld in DC mode, same for AC, of course there are many more choices of rod application. Stainless steel and aluminum rods are also available, as is cast iron application rods.

Ventilation from the fumes is the absolute first requirement of all welding applications.

[agmantoo]

What moopups posted, go for it.

[Fire-Man]

Originally Posted by moopups

Concerning the welder, for farm use an AC/DC 220 volt buzz box is the better choice, both types of currant application are desired. The AC type only is a pain because of the magnetic field that develops upon striking the arc. The combo set up is easier to learn.

For the torch tanks, get the largest owner type tank that is allowed in your area, and use propane for the fuel, much cheaper than acetylene. Of course it takes a special type tip, at about $15.00 each.

Concerning cutting very thick metals, just turn your oxygen regulator up to 80 pounds or so, you can slice railroad rails very easily at that setting. Never take the fuel tank setting above 15 PSI. Never open an acetylene tank without the gages in place, its own friction can ignite it via the escaping gas if the gages are not present.

Normal oxygen setting is 30 PSI or lower, for 1/2 inch thickness or less. Rod types most common are 6013, the most versatile rod, will weld horizontal, vertical, and overhead. 6010 will weld through most contamination. 6022 will weld roofing tin to train rail, known as a drag rod. 7018 is also common; some rods will only weld in DC mode, same for AC, of course there are many more choices of rod application. Stainless steel and aluminum rods are also available, as is cast iron application rods.

Ventilation from the fumes is the absolute first requirement of all welding applications.

Can I use a 100lb propane tank for my "Gas" Tank---Will the gauges fit it?
So a Lincoln like flaswampratt mentioned would be a good one to go with? Someone give me a quick----Why-----a stick welder over a wire feed. I read the part about better penatration etc, but still would like more info. I would like someone to give me a little more info on why and when it would be better to use/weld using DC or AC. Thanks Randy

[Marcia in MT]

An issue ago Hobby Farms had an article on outfits and welding. I thought it was pretty informative. I think it's posted on their website.

[zukgod]

I personally would still go with a wire feed. Stick welders are good options but are harder to use and get decent welds. Wire feed welders are easier to use in my opinion and your welds will turn out much better. I stand by everything I said at first, get the auto dark helmet and don't drop it off a 2nd story roof =-). Just practice with whatever you get on scrap and make sure you get good penetration with your welds, and you will be good to go. I have been a fabrication welder for many years and hate welding with a buzz box even though I learned on one. The only place they do work a bit better is in a windy condition.

[sammyd]

I'll second or 3rd the wire feed.
I've welded pipes on a 3500 psi hydraulic system and had them last longer than the ones done with a stick. But you have to have a good'un, not a WalMart special.
If out side is where it's being used get the flux core.

[moopups]

The wire feed is fine - for delicate applications in a wind free situtation of thin metals. But if you need deep penetration a stick unit is the way to apply such. Wire feed is also known as a Metal Inert Gas, MIG, then there is TIG, Tegrinial Inert Gas*, a system concerning highly refined metal applications. Both units apply a shield from oxygen, the true enemy of correct welds. Even stick weld issue a shield gas, the rods via a the coating of the rods, activated by the heat of the arc .

The MIG system (wire feed) is for light duty things, such as lawn mower decks, The TIG system is for highly refined things, such as irrigation system components. Thin metals that do not have a need for excessive strength.

The stick system is for most others, such as a plow's crack, linking massive things to together. The application dictates the system needed.

*My spell check does not recognize this word, it refers to a gas shield that remains in place after released from the unit nozzle. The gas hovers in a clump around the area it was issued within.

[ninny]

Personally, I like the MC (acetylene) and R (oxygen) tank setup. These are the small personal tanks and they are portable. If you have something break down out in the field or need to move them to some other locatioin, they are easily carried. They will last for a reasonable amount of time unless you are doing some heavy cutting. I have three sets of bottles that I keep full just in case I run into a heavy job. Down here, the cost to refill is about $10 each..

.

[Fire-Man]

OK-----How about the tank question-----If I can use propane---Can I use a 100lb propane tank for my "Gas" part of my torch set-up?? Thanks!! Rady

[fantasymaker]

Ok Im an amature who builds a trailer that moves semitrucks its some serious metal and seriuous welding and Im not a pro.
what works for me is a stick welder not sure why but for me I get my best results that way but heck why not take a course at the local community collage and learn about both and see what fits you better.


HELMETS If your not a pro the auto dark is the ONLY way to go! it will save your eyesight and your work will be better and cleaner! I bought one at a Horimer sale for $20 just to see if there was any diference now Id pay 10 times that if I had to!

[artificer]

I run an ag research prototyping lab, and I teach students to make our stuff. This is my take on the welders.
Stick:
pro:Cheap, versatile, many options for rods/composition
con: more difficult to learn, slag is a pain.

Mig:
Pro: easy to learn/use, no slag, easier to weld thin metals
Con: won't work in wind, short leads (15-20' vs 50'+), mostly stuck with one setup

I teach the students to weld with the MIG, since its mostly point and squirt the molten metal. Easy to teach puddle control, and seeing where they're actually welding. Right next to our MIG welder is a tig/stick unit. I only use it on aluminum, stainless (unless I put the stainless wire in the mig) or various stick welding, like hard-facing or nickel rod for cast iron. I've welded some fairly thick metal with it (1" plate) , but it is a 400amp unit, definitely not a cheap low power one.

One good sugestion I've seen mentioned in other forums is to find the local technical arts school, and see if they have a night time welding class. Its a good way to learn, and is usually fairly inexpensive.

If you get a MIG welder, just remember... you can have a beautiful weld, that is structurally weak. I like to teach my students to bevel at least 75% of the material away when they use the MIG welder. If you've filled up that much of the base metal thickness, you know you've gotten good penetration, and should have a good weld.

I would second (third, fourth?) the auto-darkening helmet. If you don't have to flip down your helmet, your more likely to start you're weld where you intended. The boss thought I was silly for personally buying one, and bringing it into work. We didn't need one. First time he tig welded with it however...

If I had to do it all again, I would probably start with a stick unit. Just plan on spending time to learn how to make a good weld. You can't beat the price. If I had lots of money, I'd go with the mig, because you sure can lay down a lot of weld bead easily with it. (I love tacking with the mig) :-)

Michael

[PyroDon]

For a torch a victor firepower will do fine you'll mainly be cutting with it so get a oxygen bottle twice as large as the acetylene, lease the tanks rather than put up with the expense of having them certified and such.
for a welder I like the little 220 lincoln with dial adjustment and start off with idiot proof rod some thing like 7011
Migs are great but unless your working with thin metals a stick will a good job for half the cost if you do opt for a mig go with a 220volt and argon