perimeter electrical fencing

[deanm]

My Dad is adamant in the belief that using electrical fencing for the perimeter of a pasture is completely impractical. He says deer will be constantly charging through it and forcing you to spend all your time fixing it.

He says you have to use woven wire around the outside and can use the electrical fencing for the interior (to seperate paddocks and such). However, the woven wire is much more expensive and the pasture we are talking about fencing is quite hilly.

From reading the forums here it seems like most of you are using electrical fencing. Am I wrong? Do you have the problem that he suggests?

Being able to convince him that electrical would be ok for the perimeter, would sure save on the initial investment and also make fencing in some of the adjoining timber acreage a possibility.

[uncle Will in In.]

I had one wire around 160 acres with Beef cattle in there for 10 years. I also had it divided up into 11 seperate pastures. Never ever did the first cow go past the fence anywhere. My fence was one high tensil barb fastened to old rusted off steel T posts with plastic insulaters. The posts were spaced about 40 feet apart unless one was needed to raise or lower the wire on a hill or gully. I streached the wire by pulling it up tight to each post as I went across the field. All together there was over 5 miles of barb wire electrified. I had a few cows wild enough to jump over a cattle panel corral, but they were afraid to jump a hot barb 3 feet high. You need a good low impedence ac charger. When you touch a hot wire you will swear someone hit you with a 2x4. For the ends, I would put two steel posts close together with a brace from the top of the corner down to the bottom of the second post. Plain electric fence wire isn't worth a hoot with deer around, but they never done any harm to the barb.

[Beeman]

Originally Posted by deanm

My Dad is adamant in the belief that using electrical fencing for the perimeter of a pasture is completely impractical. He says deer will be constantly charging through it and forcing you to spend all your time fixing it.

He says you have to use woven wire around the outside and can use the electrical fencing for the interior (to seperate paddocks and such). However, the woven wire is much more expensive and the pasture we are talking about fencing is quite hilly.

From reading the forums here it seems like most of you are using electrical fencing. Am I wrong? Do you have the problem that he suggests?

Being able to convince him that electrical would be ok for the perimeter, would sure save on the initial investment and also make fencing in some of the adjoining timber acreage a possibility.

Your Dad is right, but nobody wants the expensive,hard,permanent answer. Sure electric will work but the odds of a problem are much greater. What are you fencing in/out?

[deanm]

Originally Posted by Beeman

Your Dad is right, but nobody wants the expensive,hard,permanent answer. Sure electric will work but the odds of a problem are much greater. What are you fencing in/out?

Well, we only have 2.5 acres of pasture, 4.5 of timber. My point is that I don't think there is anything you could raise in that 2.5 acres of pasture that would justify the expense of fencing it with woven wire. And the expense of fencing in the timber (which is also steep) with woven wire would be too prohibitive.

If we just did chickens, we wouldn't need any perimeter fencing. We'd use the portable buildings with paddocks moved around the building using the electric poultry netting. I suppose though that we could run a few sheep in front of the chickens to keep the grass down.

The pasture is fronted by a handful of neighbor's large back yards. So, as for what we'd be keeping out, it would be dogs, and probably coyotes.

[Hammer4]

I use high tensile electric fencing, it keeps the cattle and horses in just fine. I have one stretch I put up last fall that I think deer were hitting and knocking the wires off the insulators but they never broke any of the 12 gauge wire we use, I would just pop the wires back on the insulators and back on the posts, no problem.

Eventually they quit knocking it off, I think they just figured out where it was and started jumping it. I think I had to put wires back maybe 3 or 4 times is all.

I do have a good fence charger, it puts 8000-9000 volts in the fence, I have been zapped by it a few times on accident and it will certainly put a whammy on ya.

The cattle won't even go near it.

Woven wire fence is expensive and will just get shoved over by cattle or horses eventually as they lean over it to eat on the other side or rub against it to scratch an itch...unless you use an electric wire to protect it that is.

Make sure if you do it, you use high tensile 12 gauge wire...its much stronger than the 14 or smaller gauge wire and makes a much more resilient fence. Tractor Supply Company has some pages on their website that show you how to do it and will also loan/give you a free video tape that demonstrates how to make high tensile fences...

[Wolf mom]

Go for the electrical fencing... My neighbour goes one step further & puts peanut butter on the electrified wire. Only takes about 3 times of trying to lick it and they learn to stay away.
I have electric polywire fencing on another parcel and the elk every once in a while will catch it with their hoof. Very easy to repair.
I am in the process of fencing 5 acres with field fencing (330' by 4' high woven field fencing is $128.00 a roll here) for my dogs and may have to run a hot wire a few inches off the ground until they learn not to dig under it. I will use polywire again as I have a lot of it. Otherwise, if I were to start new, I'd use 12 ga. wire instead. 12 ga. is a heck of a lot easier to repair than barbed wire, as a comparison.
Just watch the way you put in your t-posts as you need to consider how you want the plastic connnectors to face as that will decide on whether your wire is outside or inside the pasture..
just my experience.

[deanm]

My Dad's point is that the deer will never see the electric fencing and will just run right through it. Are they smart enough to remember when they have one run in with it? Or maybe they can just sense in some way that it is there?

[agmantoo]

I am an avid deer hunter. I hunt inside my pasture. Since 1995 I have killed 69 deer inside this pasture. I have had trees to fall on the fence. I had an automoble to run through the fence. At the last count I have installed by myself more than 30 each of the 4000 feet long 12 1/2 gauge rolls of wire. Yes, I had to repair the fence where the car went through. I had to cut the trees off the fence but the wires sprung immediately back into position. I have had to replace a few plastic insulators, now I use the porcelin ones. I have had some staples to pull out of the poor quality treated posts, I now use screws. The fence is more than 12 years old, the wire looks new. The cost of installing is a fraction of other materials. I do not live on the farm where the cattle are located. Current headcount is in excess of 145 head of cattle of all sizes. As I sit here typing I am confident the cattle are where they are supposed to be. I live in a congested area compared to most farmers. Animals are not tolerated being out endangering the public. It is a misdemeanor offense here. I am unaware of any fence materials that can perform as well. People have a lot of preconceived ideas and do not understand what a well built high tensile electric fence can provide. I failed to mention that I have almost no 2 legged trespassers since putting up this fence. That too, is a major plus. I highly recommend using electrified high tensile fence. You will not regret it either. www.kencove.com will give you some good information on such fencing.

[Rocky Fields]

Dean,

The deer will be jumping that fence. If it isn't 7.5-8 ft. high, you won't keep deer out. They do see the fence. One zap is usually all it takes for a deer to remember. We had nine hunters and we took nine bucks on opening day on my farm.

RF

[deanm]

Originally Posted by Rocky Fields

Dean,

The deer will be jumping that fence. If it isn't 7.5-8 ft. high, you won't keep deer out. They do see the fence. One zap is usually all it takes for a deer to remember. We had nine hunters and we took nine bucks on opening day on my farm.

RF

I'm not worried at all about keeping the deer out; I'm just contending with my Dad's belief that the deer will continuously run right through it and repairing the fence will be a full time job.

He says my uncle (who is a deer hunter) agrees with him. However, they are both old fashioned and are probably basing their knowledge of electric fencing on what was available when they were young.

[Liese]

From what I have read deer are like horses, they have a hard time seeing wire, so I used the polywire just for visibility, not charged (TSC cheap stuff) strung at both a mid height and above the top hot wire fencing in a pasture where the deer have moved back and forth. The third line down has been knocked off a couple of times in one particular place so I think the a younger one (s) must have gone thru below the mid poly line since that has not been knocked off. But otherwise the fence has not suffered any problems and hopefully the deer haven't either. I would expect horse tape would do the same, maybe better, but at more cost. The deer tracks now show that they are going around the field and we haven't even connected the fence to the charger yet.

[deanm]

So, could you use then the 12 gauge high tensile electric fence with a strand of polywire for the perimeter fence, so it would be visible to deer? I mean we would be using polywire for interior fencing anyway.

It still seems that would be much less expensive than woven wire for the pasture and also make fencing the timber acreage possible.

[Bearfootfarm]

A PROPERLY built electric fence wont break when something hits it. If it breaks, you had the wire too tight to begin with. The deer will learn where it is quickly

[rambler]

If you have large livestock, your state likely has a legal definition of what a fence is. Typically 4 strands of barbed, or 32" of woven with 2 strands of barbed above it. Or equivelent. In the rare chance of a legal issue, you are in better standing if you met that legal description. Not a big deal, just pointing it out as discussion.

Here we run 32" of woven wire, one barbed wire, and a barbed electric strand on top. This mostly keeps holstiens behaved.

Mostly.

I run a single barbed electric strand around a cornfield for several months in fall. The deer don't bother it much 'here'.

If you go electric, get a big whopping strong fencer. Don't even look at anything less than a 10-mile rated fencer. Bigger _is_ better in this case.

--->Paul

[deanm]

Originally Posted by rambler

If you have large livestock, your state likely has a legal definition of what a fence is. Typically 4 strands of barbed, or 32" of woven with 2 strands of barbed above it. Or equivelent. In the rare chance of a legal issue, you are in better standing if you met that legal description. Not a big deal, just pointing it out as discussion.

Here we run 32" of woven wire, one barbed wire, and a barbed electric strand on top. This mostly keeps holstiens behaved.

Mostly.

I run a single barbed electric strand around a cornfield for several months in fall. The deer don't bother it much 'here'.

If you go electric, get a big whopping strong fencer. Don't even look at anything less than a 10-mile rated fencer. Bigger _is_ better in this case.

--->Paul

I hadn't thought about legal issues. You are saying that most states require you have a barbed wire fence? I wonder if there would also be legal issues with having an electric fence in close proximity to a residential property?

[Columbia,SC.]

We have the poly tape around our place to keep the horse in, everyone can see it and no one gets close to it! ours is the 1/2" wide one. I bought some step in posts and take the horse over to any of the neihbors yards to let her 'eat fresh salad'. I take some of the ribbon tape and stretch out a 30 x 30 square area with no charger,(she NEVER challenges the fence wire) she mows it down and the neighbors love it!
PS, we scoop out any deposits that Strawberry may leave!
One more PS, I tried to sneak under the wire lastweekend to help DD halter Strawberry, I was bare footed and my back hit the ribon tape! Let me say that it made me hit the ground and I lost my breath like I was hit with a brick! We have a 15 mile low impendance charger running 3 acres. Overkill but it is worth it!

[rambler]

Here is some Illinois law. Web site has a lot of interesting reading, who needs to pay for the fence, etc. Not to make too big of a deal of this, just passing on info. Cattle or horses you might want to pay attention, chickens or little stock not such a big deal.

Good fences make good neighbors. On the other hand, some city folk get all crazy about electric fencers, I've heard of issues there.

--->Paul

http://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/dawson/fence/il_fnc.htm

765 ILCS 130/2. [Height of fences]
Sec. 2. Fences four and one-half feet high, and in good repair, consisting of rails, timber boards, stone, hedges, barb wire, woven wire or whatever the fence viewers of the town or precinct where the same shall lie shall consider equivalent thereto suitable and sufficient to prevent cattle, horses, sheep, hogs and other stock from getting on the adjoining lands of another, shall be deemed legal and sufficient fences: Provided, that in counties under township organization, the electors, at any annual town meeting, may determine what shall constitute a legal fence in the town; and in counties not under township organization, the power to regulate the height of fences shall be vested in the county board.

[deanm]

Originally Posted by rambler

Here is some Illinois law. Web site has a lot of interesting reading, who needs to pay for the fence, etc. Not to make too big of a deal of this, just passing on info. Cattle or horses you might want to pay attention, chickens or little stock not such a big deal.

Good fences make good neighbors. On the other hand, some city folk get all crazy about electric fencers, I've heard of issues there.

--->Paul

http://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/dawson/fence/il_fnc.htm

.

Thanks for the link Paul. I can't possibly be reading that right though. If I wanted to build a fence that divided my pasture and any neighbor's adjoining backyard, they could be required to help pay and maintain that portion of the fence that adjoins their property? Wow, that would be a great way to endear myself to my new neighbors.

[rambler]

Originally Posted by deanm

Thanks for the link Paul. I can't possibly be reading that right though. If I wanted to build a fence that divided my pasture and any neighbor's adjoining backyard, they could be required to help pay and maintain that portion of the fence that adjoins their property? Wow, that would be a great way to endear myself to my new neighbors.

Exactly. Most of us build our own fences. However, should a neighbor start _using_ the fence once you have it there - then it is only right for them to pay you for 1/2 of it at that time.

As well if both of you have livestock, it sets up rules for maintaing the fence in the future - you each get 1/2 to maintain, so there are no issues of your livesotck or mine wrecked it so you (or me) do all the fixing....

That is where the law helps. There were so many ugly neighbor situations back 100 years ago, that these fence laws took shape. Some don't make so much sense when city & country folks are living together, but by & large it's a good framework hammered out over the years.

And, I don't mean to go overboard with the proper legal fence mumbo jumbo - most of us get along fine with whatever keeps our livestock in. Just exposing you to the nitty gritty of it all, should some questions come up down the road. Don't want to scare you with all the over-the-top stuff.

Sounds like you are living close to some city-type folks, and sometimes questions come up from that situation.... Best to be prepared & have a bit of knowledge....

--->Paul

[Liese]

Originally Posted by deanm

So, could you use then the 12 gauge high tensile electric fence with a strand of polywire for the perimeter fence, so it would be visible to deer? I mean we would be using polywire for interior fencing anyway.

It still seems that would be much less expensive than woven wire for the pasture and also make fencing the timber acreage possible.

Sorry my post was not very clear. We have run 4 strands 12 ga wire and then 1 strand of poly wire at mid height, 1 strand is on top so they can see the fence to know how high to clear it. Counting from the ground, first wire ground, #2 wire hot, #3 wire hot, polyrope, #4 wire hot, polyrope. The poly is not charged and the fence is about 48" hi. I then use electro netting from Kencove attached to the perimeter to make grazing paddocks. Our fields are all seperated by tree belts & hedgerows so each must be fenced seperately. We are just finishing pasture #2 and learning as we go. The goats can be good teachers. Now if I can just find a strong enough welded fence for between the bucks and ram - the ram has already learnt that a charged line can be pulled off with horns and then proceeded to batter at the welded 2x4 - argh.