Frozen yard hydrant

[Matt Black]

Apparently the previous owner of my place installed this yard hydrant too shallow as it spent a month or so frozen up tight this past winter. It took about a week and a half of above freezing temps to thaw it out. It's only down about 18 inches or so where it ties into the 1.5in PVC main with a tee fitting. I know this because I had to dig it out last summer when one of my kids pushed the hydrant too far side ways while lifting the handle and snapped the tee.

I can't bury it any deeper, but can I raise the level of dirt around it? Maybe drop a section of 12" pipe over the hydrant and fill it with dirt? Would this be enough to keep it from freezing?

Thanks for any help!

Yes, raising the dirt around it will help. A good heavy mulch around it in the fall will work as well. I am surprised it would freeze in MO at 18 inches. Here in central Illinois I have never seen the ground frozen deeper than 12 inches, and that is rare. I do know bare ground will freeze deeper than grass covered because the grass acts as a mulch.

[palani]

Putting some bales of hay or straw around it and covering them with a tarp should help. With no snow cover and 20 below temps our hydrants are at least 5 feet deep and sometimes that isn't enough.

Hot water helps thaw them out but I would be worried about the PVC freezing.

[uncle Will in In.]

If there isn't a cavity for the water in the hydrant to drain back down into the ground, the water will remain in the pipe up to the hydrant and freeze any time its below freezing. Having a tile or some thing at the bottom of the hydrant gives the pipe a place to drain. Also the rod that comes out of the top of the hydrant, and attaches to the handle can freeze in the seal the keeps the water from coming out around the rod. I found that smearing grease around the rod when it is pulled up to run water will keep it from freezing at the top.

[MaryNY]

Some folks I have known forever have a hydrant like that near their horse barn, and each fall they pile manure around the pipe at least a foot deep. The heat from the "composting" manure keeps the hydrant open during the winter, even with our cold NY temps.

Good luck!

MaryNY

[Matt Black]

Thank you for the suggestions!

I'm pretty sure the water froze somewhere in the hydrant pipe. It's tee'd directly off the main to the house and the house water never froze. I'm not sure if it froze above ground level or below though. I didn't want to heat the pipe or head, I was scared of damaging it or the PVC below somehow. I was just praying the main didn't freeze or worse, burst. Fixing that line when it was warm out was bad enough!

Thanks again!

[Ole Man Legrand]

I bought a new freeze proof hydrant , it frosze the first winter. In the spring I dug it out and the drain hole was stoped up from the MFG. I drilled the hole out and never had another problem with it. I always pour concrete around the pipe coming out of the ground 2ft by 2ft and 4 inches deep.This stablizes the hydrant.

[agmantoo]

Is this hydrant just in packed earth? Proper installation suggests that the hydrant be surrounded by wash stone to enable the unit to drain when shut off. A hydrant that can drain should not freeze in your area.

[Matt Black]

There is a 1 foot tall section of 12in pipe dropped over the hydrant. It sits at the bottom of the hole with notches cut so it fits over the main. This piece of pipe is filled with gravel, packed earth over that to grade level. The soil is rock/clay. Maybe I screwed something up when I had to dig it out last year, I think put everything back the way it was but I was ignorant of how the hydrant actually worked. I thought the pipe/gravel was to stabilize the hydrant, didn't realize it was for drainage. The main never froze but the hydrant did.

Matt, it does sound like the water is not draining out of the faucet. I wonder if the drain hole is not plugged. Do you know if it had an ell fitting in the drain hole?

[Beeman]

I stabilize my hydrants by driving a pipe or metal fencepost deep in the ground and then clamping the hydrant to it so it doesn't move. you've already experienced what happens if it moves. The other thing is not to connect the PVC directly to the hydrant, use a galvanized elbow and about a 2ft. section of galvanized pipe to connect to the hydrant. The internals of the hydrant don't take kindly to freezing and I've had to dig one up for a torn plunger.

Simmons Hydrant Co. has a website that should show installations and FAQ's.

[Junkmanme]

Matt,
When the hydrant is closed (shut off), the rubber stopper (seal at the BOTTOM) should be OPEN to allow the water to drain out. If, when you last fixed it, you changed this such that it is closed when shut off.......it won't drain and can (will) FREEZE. --just a possibility---

Bruce

[Matt Black]

I don't remember an ell and up until now wasn't even aware that there was a drain hole! After last summer's episode I did drive a t-post next to it and used a hose clamp to secure it. The handle is tough to raise for a 6 year old and they tend to push more than lift!

Pouring concrete around it would secure it sure enough but I know sooner or later I'll have to dig it up again and I'd be kicking myself.

I didn't change anything on the hydrant itself, but if there's a hole down there it could very well have gotten blocked somehow. Where is this drain hole exactly?

There is no galvanized pipe either, it's a PVC 1.5in main with a PVC tee fitting to a brass (I think it was brass, coulda been copper. I told the guy at the plumbing supply what I was doing and that's what he gave me.) nipple then the hydrant.

And yeah, first try I threaded the nipple in the hydrant and then tried to turn the whole thing into the PVC tee fitting. Laying in the mud trying to keep the fitting and hydrant threads lined up at the bottom of the hole while hand turning the top heavy hydrant pipe resulted in cross threading the nipple into the tee. I had to cut out a section of pipe, go back into town and buy a new tee and do it all over again. This time I tightened the nipple to the tee first and then threaded the hydrant on. That worked. I guess with all that and the water being shut off to the house the whole time I didn't pay much attention to the hydrant.

[Junkmanme]

Matt,

Here is a picture of a frostfree yard hydrant (to assist in explaining operation).



At the bottom (inside) is a BUNA RUBBER plunger that operates from a rod that runs inside the main upright pipe. This plunger lets water in or shuts it off, depending upon the position of the lever at the top of the hydrant. The plunger also seals a "weep-hole" when ON and opens the "weep-hole" when OFF (to allow pipe to drain of water). The "weep-hole" is also located at the bottom of the entire mechanism. The "weep-hole" can, if old, corrode shut, I suppose...

Anyway, the interior rod (brass, usually) operates the BUNA RUBBER PLUNGER at the bottom of the mechanism. This is adjustable, to some degree, by the threads on the interior rod. (to get a good seal and to allow the "weep-hole" to function correctly when OFF.)

CLEAR AS MUD....right?

Feel free to send me Private Messages here at Homesteading if you have ANY questions. I'll be glad to help.

Best Regards,
Bruce (Junkmanme in New Mexico)