Farmhouse Ceiling problem...Any suggestions?

lickcreek · #1 04/02/07, 08:49 AM

We are helping a neighbor do some remodeling on his rental (old farm house that he grew up in.)

Our problem is the living room ceiling. After 2 coats of KILZ, and a coat of ceiling paint, there is still stains showing through. What we've finally decided is the culprit, (after finding this on one of the walls) is that the drywall on the ceiling was put up upside down,

using nails instead of screws. Now there is rust bleeding into the paper backing of the drywall, and it continues to bleed through any paint we put up there.

Last night, before we left, we coated the cieling with a darker brown (ugly paint left by the last renter), hoping it wouldn't be as noticable, and we could then start again with the KILZ. But I'm pretty sure I could see the stains showing through again before we left.

Any suggestions as to how to stop this, short of putting up a new cieling? It looks like we're going to have the same problem in the kitchen!!

agmantoo · #2 04/02/07, 09:02 AM

I use a Zinzer product, oil base for this type problem. Does Kilz come in a water base as well as an oil base? If the product you are using is water based that is your problem. An oil base should not have the results you are experiencing. Have you tried to shellac over the heads of the nails?

frogmammy · #3 04/02/07, 09:22 AM

Agmantoo is right...Zinzer is the way to go...better than Kilz. Use the oil base that you can use a latex paint over.
Mon

lickcreek · #4 04/02/07, 09:25 AM

Yes, the KILZ is water based. They do have an oil based version too. Would we be able to use the oil based product on what we already have up there? And can we go back to the water based ceiling paint afterwards? I didn't think you could interchange them that way, but I could be wrong. Either way, we have to come up with something.

We haven't tried shellac. The stains have bled to where they are anywhere from 3" around to probably 6" around each nail.

DH was thinking about mixing mud with the paint and spraying it on as a texture. Do you think it would bleed through this, too?

CraftyDiva · #5 04/02/07, 09:34 AM

A coat of varnish will seal it up, then continue with your painting.

ETA............ you don't have to do the entire ceiling, just the areas bleeding thru.

agmantoo · #6 04/02/07, 10:29 AM

Whether the face side of the drywall is out or not does not contribute to your bleed through problem.

You must now let the water based Kilz dry thoroughly before proceeding. When dry, use an oil base stain blocker. The oil base Kilz is not user friendly IMO. The Zinzer 123 oil base is not as bad. Apply the oil base and let it dry/cure and then if necessary apply a second coat.

You can apply a water based paint over the oil based stain blocker.

Your husband's suggestion will not work as a blocker. It will work as a sandable top coat and will give a nice appearance if sanded between coats. It will help the drywall finish if the material is the wrong side out also. The filler needs to be mixed with a latex paint, not oil or water based paint to accomplish this task. The oil base will not sand very well. There is a diffference between a latex and a water base paint. Water based paints have water soluable oils in them. Latex based paints are very comparable to drywall filler..

lickcreek · #7 04/02/07, 11:02 AM

Thank you all for replying so quickly!

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, we will need to use an oil based stain blocker to stop this bleed through. I've never heard of Zinzer, and all we have locally is
Wal-Mart. (Closest Menards/Lowes is 50 miles away, and I'm sure we won't be able to get there for at least a week.) Kilz is all they have available, but they do have an oil based version. Do you think this would do?

They also sell an interior Kilz paint, which I assume is probably not oil based. I won't know until I go over this afternoon to see if it is water based or latex based. (agmantoo, I didn't realize that latex paint wasn't water based.) Would either adhere to the oil based primer/sealer?

I apologize for my ignorance, but I've never run into a problem such as this before. Kilz has covered everything I've needed covered up to this point.

agmantoo · #8 04/02/07, 11:19 AM

Use the oil based Kilz

Be prepared to ventilate the area, the Kilz stinks!!

lickcreek · #9 04/02/07, 12:36 PM

Thanks everyone. I've been every place locally (total of 3 stores) and no one carries the Zinzer. Although, 2 of the 3 places said it was an awesome product.

Looks like we will have to try the Kilz oil based. Thanks for the warning to ventilate, although I did see the warning on the can today about the funmes. We will open all the doors and I'll even take some fans over to help draw the fumes out of the house.

The owner did say he would replace the ceiling as a last resort, but didn't really seem to excited about the prospect. I thought I would try one more time to cover what was there. As I mentioned before, we will have the same situation in the kitchen to deal with.

agmantoo · #10 04/02/07, 12:38 PM

Do the kitchen while the other room continues to cure. The task is salvageable.

**GREENCOUNTYPETE** · #11 04/02/07, 12:41 PM

3/8" dry wall if none of that works it goes on right over what is there you can mud it or i have a freind who makes a grid on the ceiling of 1x4 or 1x6 in 2 or 4 foot squares
it covers all the joints if done right

lickcreek · #12 04/02/07, 12:48 PM

How long will it take to sufficiently cure the Oil based Kilz? (I've never used interior oil based primers)

terri46355 · #13 04/02/07, 01:57 PM

I've tried Kilz and it doesn't work.

The best product to seal anything inside is Zinsser BIN. I used it to cover smoke from a wax fire and tobacco smoke. It seals all stains because it is shellac based.

I bought it at Menard's and Sherwin Williams. Any good paint store should have it.

It is expensive, but worth the price in time and it covers everything.

tiogacounty · #14 04/03/07, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraftyDiva

A coat of varnish will seal it up, then continue with your painting.

ETA............ you don't have to do the entire ceiling, just the areas bleeding thru.

An oil based stain blocker like Zinzer or Kilz will work a lot better than varnish and unlike varnish, is designed to be a primer. Also, you can never "spot" prime with any sealer. You have to do the entire surface or you will end up with different sheens, and the spot primed areas will show. I spot primed a few lightly stained, water damaged spots on a drywall ceiling once. It took FIVE coats of ceiling white to finally get rid of the noticable spot primed areas. Never again. IMHO, the issue here is that the primer was water based, once you switch to the oil based Kilz, you will be fine. good luck.

Junkmanme · #15 04/03/07, 08:58 PM

Over and Over through the years, I have used CLEAR LACQUER to seal stains such as you refer to. IT WORKS very well. One Coat will usually do it.....may need 2, but I doubt it.

Try it! You'll be pleased!

.netDude · #16 04/04/07, 10:24 AM

I've had excellent results with Kilz oil based.

Missy M · #17 04/04/07, 05:13 PM

Try some nice sheets of decorative tin. Might accent the old house nicely.

Rocky Fields · #18 04/04/07, 10:23 PM

Hey.

Simple solution: Drive the nails deeper into the drywall. Screw in drywall screws next to the nails. Patch heads of both.

If there is water leaking, the leak must be fixed first, otherwise nothing will hold up.

RF

CraftyDiva · #19 04/05/07, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiogacounty

An oil based stain blocker like Zinzer or Kilz will work a lot better than varnish and unlike varnish, is designed to be a primer. Also, you can never "spot" prime with any sealer. You have to do the entire surface or you will end up with different sheens, and the spot primed areas will show. I spot primed a few lightly stained, water damaged spots on a drywall ceiling once. It took FIVE coats of ceiling white to finally get rid of the noticable spot primed areas. Never again. IMHO, the issue here is that the primer was water based, once you switch to the oil based Kilz, you will be fine. good luck.

Using a clear varnish, shellac, oil based poly, will seal the stains. Even if you have to go out and buy it, it's cheaper then spending an additional $20+ on more primer. He already has the water based primer, after the the varnish, etc. dries he goes over those spots with the primer he already has. And then continues painting with his paint of choice. And if your worried about different sheens, a super fine grade sandpaper will solve that, before the primer patch.

.