Herd Shares in Ohio win a victory.

[seedspreader]

The ODA decided it didn't have the ability to win an appeal against those in Ohio who practice herd shares.

SALEM, Ohio — Ohio's raw milk drinkers are raising their glasses in victory after the Ohio Department of Agriculture dropped its appeal last week in the case against Carol Schmitmeyer.

Schmitmeyer, a dairy producer in Darke County, had been providing raw milk through herd share agreements for about a year when the ODA yanked her Grade A milk producer license in September. The department said she was violating Ohio's dairy laws by selling raw milk, processing milk without a processor's license and selling milk that wasn't properly labeled.

Background. Darke County Common Pleas Court Judge Jonathan Hein overturned the ODA's decision in January, basing his ruling on how the department handled the case. The department appealed the decision later that month, which prevented Schmitmeyer from resuming her herd share agreements.

Schmitmeyer's Grade A license was reinstated in October on the grounds that she stop distributing raw milk to herd share customers.

Dropped. The case was awaiting its turn in court when Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland stepped in and ordered the ODA to drop its appeal.

"Fundamentally, the governor agreed with the judge," said Keith Dailey, Strickland's press secretary.

The governor's decision was based on the herd share concept. Dailey said there's "not enough evidence to suggest part ownership in a herd is problematic."

"We feel justice was finally served," said Schmitmeyer, who makes a living on her 100-head dairy farm with her husband, Paul.

Now that the appeal has been dropped, the dairy farmer can resume the herd share agreements, although she's not sure when that will happen.

"We want to start as soon as possible," she said.

http://www.farmanddairy.com/1editori...-token.subpub=

So far I am pleasantly surprised with Ted Strickland. I hope he doesn't do anything stupid in the future!

[keljonma]

QUOTE]ZealYouthGuy wrote: So far I am pleasantly surprised with Ted Strickland. I hope he doesn't do anything stupid in the future![/QUOTE]

Wasn't that a great article?!

I agree, Strickland and his team appear to be a great change from the last bunch.

[Ken Scharabok]

I don't think you have heard the last of ODA.

To me, they do not have a herd share agreement, but merely a buyer's club in which you make a nominal initial payment, a weekly membership fee and then are allow to purchase as much as you want at the club's retail price.

If buy-in is $50 is represents about 1/40th of the value of a good milk cow. $7 a week for I rather doubt $7 per week presents a reason maintenace fee for the portion of the end product they may end up with.

Call it what it is, a buyer's club, not a herd share agreement.

[seedspreader]

Originally Posted by Ken Scharabok

I don't think you have heard the last of ODA.

To me, they do not have a herd share agreement, but merely a buyer's club in which you make a nominal initial payment, a weekly membership fee and then are allow to purchase as much as you want at the club's retail price.

If buy-in is $50 is represents about 1/40th of the value of a good milk cow. $7 a week for I rather doubt $7 per week presents a reason maintenace fee for the portion of the end product they may end up with.

Call it what it is, a buyer's club, not a herd share agreement.

I'll call it what they call it and what the newspaper calls it and what the judge called it, and what the governor called it.

Herd Share.

[Ken Scharabok]

Also note in there a Class A dairy license is involved. I strongly suspect any others in Ohio who want to go the herd share route are going to have to obtain and retain one. Then it will still be ODA to enforce the rules/regulations.

I haven't dealt with dairy inspectors before but from what I understand some enforce essentially the spirit of the law and others THE law - period. Likely even if you only plan to have say, six milking cows, you may be required to specifically meet everthing a huge dairy may be required to. If ODA is ticked off, expect THE law - period.

[dosthouhavemilk]

I'm thrilled with this, but waiting for the law to change and the bill permitting raw sales of milk from liscensed Grade A dairies to come to pass. Yeah, that makes it difficult for the person just starting out but it is a starting point for more work within the legal world.
Certainly would help us here with our herd of 19 milking cows.....Grade A stanchion barn with bucket milkers! Grandfathered in, you couldn't get Grade A nowadays with a Stanchion barn or a bucket system. We've always had the cleanest equipment they see. The State inspectors gave us a higher score than our normal inspector does...lol
As far as the Inspection process? You can be put on re-inspect for two years straight before they actually shut you down. Though if you are on re-inspect that long there is something seriously wrong at your barn and you'll likely lose your liscense due to your tests results before then. There's a local Grade A farmer who is on constant re-inspect.
Our inspector is pleased if you at least make an effort to work on what he had wrote up. He's hard to please, too. lol
We aren't gonna go and start a herd share just because it workedout in one case.
Besides, we like owning our herd and I wouldn't like someone else having any legal say in what is done here and if you are following the herd shares as they are supposed to, the herd share owners have a legal say in what happens with the herd.

[Terry W]

All this controversy just points out that we are losing our right to pursue happiness, or to live in a manner that we, as individuals, wish to live. We, as a nation, are being legislated into submission by people who have no concept of how we got where we are. I was so happy to pick up my copy of Farm and Dairy from the Post Office and see the article- but wherever we look, some form of government agency is pressing their thumb on the small guy. For what? Agribusiness-- that's what. And such things like NAIS and "Scrapies" programs will not protect our food supply - just remember Coliform in the spinach and onions, and a pet food recall... The more interference in how our food is processed and moved-- the more potential for major trouble.
Eggs must be stored below 45 deg F in order to get a USDA license in order to sell to a store. No mention in "the law" about the way to reach that temp-- just store them at that temp!! Yet, if the method used is not "mechanical" a local inspoector will not pass the farm. I found a way for the Amish members in my farm group to stay within their church guidelines, but the LAW is not being 'enforced'-- it is being interpreted by someone who is not supposed to be interpreting it! And the enforcement was wrong! But, we found a way around it. We are now dealing with a sting regarding Maple Syrup ( hey, the small guys got dinged-- but the City of Chardon-- they didn't get hit!!!)It is cost prohibitive to convert to a sugaring system that requires being connected to the grid-- not to mention the loss of more of our history.

I guess the bulk tank will just keep "leaking" a few gallons of milk every day at many farms around here....Funny how so many employees leave the dairies in the early morning with containers of white fluid in hand.

[seedspreader]

Originally Posted by Ken Scharabok

Also note in there a Class A dairy license is involved. I strongly suspect any others in Ohio who want to go the herd share route are going to have to obtain and retain one. Then it will still be ODA to enforce the rules/regulations.

I haven't dealt with dairy inspectors before but from what I understand some enforce essentially the spirit of the law and others THE law - period. Likely even if you only plan to have say, six milking cows, you may be required to specifically meet everthing a huge dairy may be required to. If ODA is ticked off, expect THE law - period.

See I don't agree with you at all and I don't think the judge did. The judge basically said the herdshare had nothing to do with her grade A dairy license and reinstated it. That's the issue you seem to be missing.

[RedHogs]

Also note in there a Class A dairy license is involved. I strongly suspect any others in Ohio who want to go the herd share route are going to have to obtain and retain one. Then it will still be ODA to enforce the rules/regulations.

I haven't dealt with dairy inspectors before but from what I understand some enforce essentially the spirit of the law and others THE law - period. Likely even if you only plan to have say, six milking cows, you may be required to specifically meet everthing a huge dairy may be required to. If ODA is ticked off, expect THE law - period.

I agree, without the grade A certification they would have been shut down completely. With regular inspections to retain the current level of certification and a written warning of the possible health risk - I don't have a problem with a buyers club for raw milk off the farm as long as the herd is milked in a cerrifed grade A Barn. Raw milk could be a added product for a dairy.... it should never be a way to avoid the regulations meant to protect the dairy industry.

[seedspreader]

Originally Posted by RedHogs

I agree, without the grade A certification they would have been shut down completely. With regular inspections to retain the current level of certification and a written warning of the possible health risk - I don't have a problem with a buyers club for raw milk off the farm as long as the herd is milked in a cerrifed grade A Barn. Raw milk could be a added product for a dairy.... it should never be a way to avoid the regulations meant to protect the dairy industry.

Perhaps you should read the link and the history. The judge didn't have the right to shut down the grade A cert.


NEXT theory!

[RedHogs]

What's your opinion on the use or purpose of a dairy certifiaction? Who needs one?

[seedspreader]

Originally Posted by RedHogs

What's your opinion on the use or purpose of a dairy certifiaction? Who needs one?

That discussion is separate issue than this one and to try to make it part of this discussion is a straw man.

IF the dairy certification had anything to do with it they would have lost the certification. They didn't in fact, the judge said that the ODA couldn't pull her certificate.

It really helps to read the articles that are posted.

I TRY to bring it in baby bites, but I can't post the WHOLE article here.

Let me help out:

The governor's decision was based on the herd share concept. Dailey said there's "not enough evidence to suggest part ownership in a herd is problematic."

If you aren't sure what the herd share concept is, that's in the article also:

Not for sale. Throughout the case, Schmitmeyer has said she never sold raw milk. Instead, she provided the product through herd share agreements with customers who paid a $50 membership fee to own a portion of the herd, plus a weekly $6 boarding fee. Raw milk sales are illegal in Ohio, but there is no law that prevents those who own dairy cattle from drinking the milk.

See even with her certificate RAW MILK SALES ARE ILLEGAL IN OHIO.

The judge, the governor, the newspaper, the lady, the owners of the herd share all figured that they weren't selling raw milk, but people had invested in a little bit of their own animals and own milk.

[RedHogs]

Your stance is that they are not selling raw milk. My point is that they are selling raw milk... They are using a loophole to sell raw milk and therefore they should be certified. I really don't have problem with raw milk sales as long as it comes out of a certified dairy.

As to baby bites... read the thread the main issue the last half is the issue of dairy certification.

I can debate this issue without becoming emotional.

[seedspreader]

Originally Posted by RedHogs

Your stance is that they are not selling raw milk. My point is that they are selling raw milk... They are using a loophole to sell raw milk and therefore they should be certified. I really don't have problem with raw milk sales as long as it comes out of a certified dairy.

As to baby bites... read the thread the main issue the last half is the issue of dairy certification.

I can debate this issue without becoming emotional.

I haven't seen anyone become emotional. I am either a superb writer to be able to convey depth of feeling through text, or you are using another non sequitur argument.

The point is it doesn't matter what you have a problem with or don't. The law that you want everyone to obey has said there was not disobedience of the law.

[willow_girl]

Let's just hope the two people who became ill with campylobactor (one of whom reportedly spent 2 weeks in the hospital) after drinking milk produced on the farm have fully recovered ...

Caveat emptor!

[seedspreader]

Originally Posted by willow_girl

Caveat emptor!

Yeah, pretty much. It's their milk, they can do what they want to.

[willow_girl]

Yup! I have reached the conclusion that anyone foolish enough to insist on drinking raw milk from a farm following a campylobactor outbreak deserves exactly what they get.

[seedspreader]

Originally Posted by willow_girl

Yup! I have reached the conclusion that anyone foolish enough to insist on drinking raw milk from a farm following a campylobactor outbreak deserves exactly what they get.

Of course to be fair her farm never tested positive for it... but unless the people were eating raw meat, I don't know of another source for them to get it.

[texican]

Only in America, can you own shares of a cow, without ever steppin' in a cow pie.

Does raw milk cost more than regular?

Is it worth a dairyman's time to sell a couple gallons out of the big tank?

I worked two years at a dairy while in high school... and I must say hats off to anyone willing to take up dairying full time. (I took milk home several times a week... was continually asked whether I stirred the tank first!)

[Ken Scharabok]

"Does raw milk cost more than regular?

Is it worth a dairyman's time to sell a couple gallons out of the big tank?"

I have heard prices of $6.00 a gallon. Likely about the same as you would pay in an organic food store for their pasteurized milk.

Yes and no. Even if they sold it at typical supermarket retail they would be getting perhaps 2-3 times more than they receive from the bottler. However, they also assume quite a liability risk. Thus, the rise in their insurance cost may offset any additional profits. If severe illness, much less a death, can be tracked back to their operation then the likely resulting lawsuit may bankrupt them.

They may have an exclusive contact with their bottler which prevents them from any of the milk (perhaps even for their own use) going elsewhere. Look, if you were a bottler would you want your source of supply to be in direct competition with you? I sort of think when a bottler found out about direct sales they would threaten to cancel the contract. For perhaps many dairies they may be the only game in town.

They may already be stretched for time and, with on-the-farm retail sales, someone has to be there to handle the transaction. I rather doubt they would want someone drawing from their bulk tank unsupervised on an honor system. Even with site delivery (say a parking lot at a certain time) how many customers aren't going to show up and what would be the bottling/refrigeration requirements involved? With store sales they would have to get into a bottling opertion, yet another time and expense drain.

Granted the risk involved with it coming out a bulk tank with the rest of it going to a bottler may be minimal. However, here the problem may be with the retail containers. In another thread someone mention their customers having to bring their own containers, thereby assuming some of the liability potential themselves.

I tend to be very liability conscious. For example, someone I know wanted to rent my backhoe to reshape a small pond. I said they could borrow it for free, but I would not accept payment simply due to potential liability if someone were injured. They assured me they wouldn't sue if something happened, but may not have been speaking for their spouse and children.

Potential liability in a herd share agreement (or simply direct sale of raw milk) is something which has to be taken into account. Yes, someone may have perfect milking hygiene and storage, but accidents do happen and it may take only one to cause severe financial implications.

Added: Raw milk sales are illegal in TN for at least cow milk. However, the local discount grocery sells milk off an Amish/Minnenite farm which is minimally pasteurized (no more than required) and then bottled by them in returnable glass containers. Granted it isn't 'raw milk', but it would be about as close as one could come. I'll have to double check price but when I noticed it the price didn't seem out of line with the supermarket.