Jim Walter Homes

[DayBird]

We have 5 acres through a lease-purchase agreement that we've been paying on for 2 1/2 years. We currently live in a singlewide that is almost paid for. We got it cheap because it was a repo and needs quite a bit of work. I don't think I'm willing to invest alot of money in a 10 year old trailer.

Donna wants a house. Jim Walter Homes can finance a 70% complete home and include our land in the financing.
http://www.jimwalterhomes.com/FindaN..._your_lot.html
She wants "The ChadWick" and I like "The Savannah." They cost about the same.

We'll get to stay here, live in the trailer while the house is being built, only have to carry our things out one door and into another, build equity in a stickbuilt home and not have our children change schools, among many other things in our favor.

My grandparents had a Jim Walter Home built back in the forties and it's still very solid today.

We'll get the keys to a house completely finished on the outside with finished sheetrock ready for painting with electrical wires sticking out of the walls and pipes up out of the floors ready for paint, trim, cabinets and fixtures.

All for 8% interest compared to the 14.5% we're paying now.

Does anyone have any positive advice (not looking for any criticism please) or valid reasons not to more heavily consider this?

[AngieM2]

My parents had a Jim Walter home here, and Dad being very picky would come home and double check the specs on things and make sure they were done right (his definition of right). Pretty good home. He did have them put extra foundation where they someday wanted to put a woodburning fireplace someday.

Then, an Uncle had on built and it had four bedrooms, and he had a wall taken out so one of the bedrooms became more of a formal dining area connected to the livingroom.

I've not seen any problem with either of those houses. The families are not in them now due to one moving to TX, and one a permanant retired rv'er for the last few years.

Angie

[AngieM2]

The Savannah is almost the house my parents had.

They took the three bedrooms on one iend and made them into two larger ones with larger closets. They moved some other stuff around, but it sure looks like what they started off with.

Oh, yeah they made the front porch a bit deeper - a very good sitting porch and the house lived well.

I like your choice much more.

Hope it works out for you.

Angie

[DayBird]

Yeah, they'll let us push, pull and change stuff around as long as we can make up our mind before they start building...once the first hole for the foundation is made, they won't let us change anything.

Another good thing is that we won't have to pay anything at all (nothing down, no closing costs) until 45 days AFTER they finish everything and hand us the keys.

We'll be paying less for the new house and the land then we are currently paying for the land and the singlewide. Once we're in the new house, my sister may want to rent our singlewide and that will pay for any repairs that's needed and help pay some of the other.

[rambler]

Only advise is to look over the terms of the loan closely. We are aware of the ARM loans, and the pain they are causing people today, when they looked good to many just a couple years ago.....

You say the new house & land loan will have lower payments than just the land does now.....

Has to be a reason for that. Is the loan changing from 10 years to 30 years, or is there a hidden balloon or floating interest rate in there? Be careful there is nothing that will come out & bite you - badly - in this. Are you at an age where you will be able to pay this off without using Social Security checks to do so? And so on.

For example, if you don't have to pay anything for the time of building plus 45 days - I will assume they are charging you for that time, & you are actually losing ground by not paying a monthly payment during that time. It's not really a good thing - it's a way for them to make extra bucks off of you - put you deeper in the hole.

They will own the land & the house. You will be paying them. Who will own the trailer? You say you have some left to pay on it. Does that stay yours, or does that become part of the big package? I would assume not as it's a mobile, but be sure you have it in writing who pays it off, who owns it. (I see many farm places around me with an old rotting farm house next to a new house - the lending firm considered the old house part of the realestate & you can't tear it down without renegociating the loan - in the lender's favor.....)

Be careful of the financing. I'm not being negative - just be sure you understand it. They write those terms up to benifit them - not you.

It will not be easier to pay off land, a trailer, & a new house plus finish off the new house compared to paying off a trailer & the land now. You cannot have more for less, no matter how easy they make it look to you on paper. With the lease agreement & not owning the trailer yet, you really don't have much equity to use yet.

As long as you clearly understand the terms, and you have a path mapped out to get you to the end of it - sounds like you have the rest well along in planning. Good luck with it all.

--->Paul

[Travis in Louisiana]

I had one built in the early 80"s. We raised our kids in it. No real problems. I did all of the inside work, they just blacked it in. The only problem we had was, if they did not get a proof of insurance from your insurance company on time or really earlier, they would force an insurance on you. They morgaged back them out of "Midstate Homes" out of Florida. We had to make sure the insurance company sent a proof of insurance to them each year. There is probably better siding on the house than there was back then, but the masonite they used did not hold up too well after several years. I ended up bricking the house. This is all I can remember.

[Gercarson]

Go with the Chadwick - bring the deck all the way over to the bedroom and put in french doors there - kidding, they both look great. Pay special attention to the finance terms and be satisfied with all the crossed "t's" and dotted "i's" so that there will not be any surprises. Congratulations on your dream coming true.

[Jerngen]

I have no advice other then an opinion on the two floor plans. My wife and I both like the Savannah much better then the Chadwick.

[chukashtamoa]

It would be better to live in the trailer and build your own house on a cash baises. Do it one faze at a time, it will take longer but you will do it for about one third the cost and when your finish it will be paid for.

[tnokie]

We didn't use Jim Walter but United Bilt. They were pretty good although we had an old guy for for construction foreman and he couldn't get Customized into his vocabulary! Other than the fights with him it was a really good house.They also allow changes in structure as long as you stay in the sq. footage. Good luck.

[mellba]

I have to agree with chuckashtamoa, but if you feel you must have the house I'd pay attention to what rambler said. I think his advice makes sense.

[lmnde]

I have the "Victorian" on our old property - I bought it from JW as an AS IS repo with in-house financing [very easy and uncomplicated - the only thing easy and uncomplicated with this home]. It was basically a shell and had sat empty half finished for several years before we got it. We bought it 8 almost 9 yrs ago and finished it ourselves. There were a lot of plumbing and electric code violations which were objected to by the county inspector and needed to be redone and brought up to code which added unexpected delays and expenses.

The kitchen/bathrooms parts of the floor plan are a bit awkward and I would have chosen a different outlay if I had got it build from scratch for me. If is on a crawl space foundation and the footings have not been poured properly - it has settled very unevenly - with some floors downstairs with noticeable up and down dibbits. The siding on mainly the north and some on the west side of the house is now rotting and crumbling [the house is either 13 or 14 yrs old now] - and will need replacement this year. Insulation is a joke and it is a very noisy house - both floor levels squeak when you walk - I can always tell where anybody is in the house, and it is noisy in regards to echoing as well. I suppose extra insulation inside the inner walls would have taken care of some of the echoing sounds. Single paned windows, that are of the lowest quality and impossible to clean outside upstairs. I suppose you can buy upgrades - but whoever ordered this house in the first place - went el cheapo all the way and it shows.

While I love that house dearly because it is wide open, light filled, airy and spacey, I would not buy it again or get the same floor plan built again, and I do not think I would be able to sell it for a comparable price/profit with other similar size homes - it is poorly made and to bring it up to code to compete with some newer construction would eat my equity up in no time. I am resigned to own this house for ever and use it as a rental when our new place is ready to be lived in fulltime.

I might consider going with JW Homes again for a newly build home on our new 8 acres, but I would first have a real good and hard look at what their construction looks like right now - houses build by them 20 or 30 yrs ago are not the same what they produce now. If I were decide to go with them, I would be on site everyday and checking and double checking that they do good work. It is my understanding that they use a lot of local sub contractors, and they go with as cheap as possible [more profit for them] - and that is what you'll get when you are not behind and insisting that things are getting done right.

The houses are optically looking good initially, but I know of 3 more houses like mine [same floor plan] within 50-60 miles around here - and 2 of those seem to have the same siding issues as mine - the third one I can't tell if it has been repainted/redone or is simply newer still - as it looks immaculate. This is supposed to be 30 yr siding [if I recall it correctly] - and it certainly is not!

Furthermore - this type of siding is no longer available - so any repairs done will be patch jobs - and noticeable or I will have to redo the entire house to get a matched look - it sucks! I am looking for someone who is capable of doing creative siding repairs - with inserts all around the house to make it look like a Victorian smorgasboard type [take good siding from the east/south side to patch up the parts on the north + west sides and insert a strip of shingles or something to fill out the now empty space - this is the only way I get around to avoiding redoing the entire house - but of course then the hole thing [2 story] needs to be painted afterwards...

The more I think about it - I think I would pass on JW and go with better quality - either stick built or alternative self build, and add to it as I can afford... The mistakes I make as I go can't possibly be more costly or worse than what I am looking at with the current home. Lmnde

[Jim S.]

Jim Walter puts up quite a few homes in my area. The quality is good as far as structure, but I can't say I like at all the look of the homes when they are done. They just look really cheap.

I have got a far neighbor who pulled a cedar-sided double-wide on his lot, used red brick around the foundation, added two stick built porches in front and back, and his mobile home looks 50 times better than the Jim Walter houses around here. Bet it cost him less, too.

All that said, if this is what you want, go for it. But before you do, I would really suggest you talk to some local "cookie cutter" builders in your own area. If you agree to buy one of their floorplans that they are building for someone else at the same time, you could get a good deal on costs because they will send the crew from one to the other doing essentially the same work, and hopefully you will get a home that doesn't scream "CHEAP" from the curbside.

I encourage you to drive by JW homes, if you have not yet, and see what they look like. Especially go by some that have been up 5 years or more. I am a huge believer that your mental state is set by your surroundings, so make SURE it is something you can live with. I much rather would live in a stick home than a trailer, but I think if it was me I would opt for a local builder with some standard plans he has squeezed down the costs on, or building it myself. You could have your own home framed in by a framing crew, put the sheathing and roof on to dry it in, then do the rest mostly yourself and save a bundle -- and also get a house that doesn't look chintzy.

I'm just sayin' ...

[Pony]

I don't know one way or the other about the builder, but agree with those who said to watch the terms of that loan carefully.

Granted, 8% is a lot lower than 14%, but 30 year mortgages here can be as much as 2 points lower. Shop around. The way the market is right now, people are looking to lend you money; you may be able to knock a couple percentage points off that loan.

Of course, the optimal way to do it is a little at a time so you can pay as you go. If you can avoid a mortgage, you'll be so much better off in the long run. Just my experience, of course.

Pony!

[logbuilder]

IMHO, the siding used makes a huge difference in both the longevity of the building as well as the looks. Often the lower end builders will use 4x8 sheets of siding. It is cheap and quick to install. Over time, it often develops problems.

Here is info on the different types of sheet siding.

http://americanhomeinspect.com/identify.html

I have used one siding product that I really like. It is from the James Hardie company and is called HardiePlank. I would imagine that you could specify you wanted that probably with some uplift in cost. Worth reading about.

http://www.jameshardie.com/homeowner.htm

[anniew]

If you decide to go with your current plan, you might want to check out to see if codes in your area will allow you to rent the trailer to your relative. Some septic laws may not allow it...depends on the state, local enforcement people, or you may need to put in a second system if you are not on a public system.
Ann

[Jolly]

All that said, if this is what you want, go for it. But before you do, I would really suggest you talk to some local "cookie cutter" builders in your own area. If you agree to buy one of their floorplans that they are building for someone else at the same time, you could get a good deal on costs because they will send the crew from one to the other doing essentially the same work, and hopefully you will get a home that doesn't scream "CHEAP" from the curbside.

Not just the cookie cutter guys...most of the small builders I know tend to build the same few houses quite a bit (they can estimate their costs much closer that way). I've got one friend of mine who is building the same house he built in 1980, with a slight increase in the roof pitch to suit modern tastes. A basic 3/2 with an open floorplan.

If you can find a guy like this, who already has a houseplan of the approximate square footage you'd like, I'm thinking you'd come out cheaper. Around here, JW houses cost a little bit more than custom stick-built, primarily because of the financing issues some folks have.

Best of luck, whatever you decide...

[Jim S.]

Originally Posted by Jolly

Not just the cookie cutter guys...most of the small builders I know tend to build the same few houses quite a bit (they can estimate their costs much closer that way).

YEP! That's a cookie cutter guy in my neck o' the woods...as opposed to a custom builder. We're on the same page!

[Avalon Acres]

Daybird,

Having been involved in municipal and county Building Inspections in Alabama for more then twenty years, there are some things I would recommend . First, "packaged, own your land and we will arrange financing builders" are a means to get in a site built home if other credit options are not available. Second, there is no statewide Building Code for Alabama, only the Codes adopted by local jurisdictions. These types of builders typically hire the lowest cost subcontractors available. The "Code" followed in rural areas is typically the local practices and methods, maybe good or bad. If your local jurisdiction has adopted Codes (remember, codes are a minimum standard, not a maximum standard), hopefully the local building inspector will require the adopted Code to be met. Lack of attention to detail and "corner cutting" on things like foundations and framing/bracing are typical if the work is not closely monitored. The competancy of the manager or superintendant of the builder will determine the quality of your project. An upgrade in siding material and close inspection of major structural elements are key. Good luck.

You ask if anyone know about Jim Walter homes, so here is my answer: No, no, no, no, no........ they are not even a consideration when it comes to quality built homes. There is a reason they are able to build homes cheaper than most contractors...... low quality material.

How do I know this? In 1980-81 I supervised a contract lumber yard in Oklahoma City and we sold only to large contractors building new homes in the metro area, including Jim Walters. But Jim Walters had special lumber ordered into our yard and this "special" lumber just for them was a poorer quality and I often wondered if the new home owner realized exactly what was going into their new dream home.

Oh sure, they look good when finished, but that's because the sheetrock is covering the junk wood they use. I'm not sure how the homes turned out square with the material being used.

One more thing, the pre-cut studs specially ordered for Jim Walters were slightly over 91" in length compared to standard pre-cut studs which are 92 5/8"

The reason: cheaper from the mill, including the material required to cover a shorter wall in height. You wouldn't think they would pull a stunt like this, but you have to remember, the volume of homes they build motivates them to cut corners at every point along the process. Overall savings to Jim Walters has to amount in the millions each year.......... more profit to them in the long run.

If you doubt what I am saying is true and you own a Jim Walter home, take your tape measure and check the height of your walls. It should be 96 inches from your floor to the ceiling, no more, no less. I think you're going to discover something new about your Jim Walter home...... your ceilings are a couple of inches shorter than what you paid for.

And lumber is the only area I know of, who knows what quality is used for plumbing, wiring, windows, and basically everything else they use when building a new home.

My advice is to run............ go to an established builder and compare prices. If they charge a little more per square foot, then tell yourself that the difference in price is worth it when it comes to the single largest investment anyone can make in their future.

Good luck, Jim