Can the IRS get away with it???

[maremouse]

I have been on here in the past reading and getting ideas and good info..... thank you.
But I never post here. I have a great deal of problems right now with the IRS and it seems they can do whatever they want to you and no one you turn to can/will help you. That includes one senator, a House Rep, IRS itself.
One year we had to under pay our taxes.We had no medical insurance and one of the kids broke a bone had to pay $4,000 and we had a couple of other bumps in the road. Anyway they wanted me to pay far more than we could afford per month and I declined that offer asked to speak to someone higher up the chain and they told me they would get back to me. That nasty little liar got off the phone with me and put down that I AGREED to a payment plan and a hundred dollars more that she was orgianlly asking me to pay!
I had no idea this happened and never signed any paperwork. But I have kept in contact with them trying to work this out, sent letters and so forth. Not knowing this was hanging over our heads.
This month I pay my mortgage or so I think and I get a letter in the mail saying the check bounced. Come to find out they garnished 85 percent of my DH's pay! They left us with virtually nothing. Teh money is direct depostied and I saw the stub and it did not show anything gone so I stated to pay my bills as usual. But not all of them and here they are bouncing left and right. I have unplugged my phone since I cannot stand listening to these people demand money I do not have. We were already behind on our mortgage and staying a step ahead of forclosure but now that the IRS has STOLEN our money we are even deeper in a hole and they can start forclosure.
This house did not come with a fireplace or any safe place to put a wood burning stove. This really stinks since yesterady we ran out of propane and have no heat or hot water. But does the IRS care NO. We have no way of getting propane. I cannot borrow money since I have no clue if I can ever pay it back.
Already we all have colds or the flu since I had to have the heat so low to save the propane and this is not helping.
We both already work 2 jobs and were breaking even and starting to catch up but then they go and they take most of our money without warning and the are going to try to do it again. I have to give them a few more things to stop it for next month and hopefully they will. But they have hurt us so badly this month ad everyone I speak to tells me that I cannot get back what they took.
I am so tired of money and the problems it brings but I am so upset to not have heat or hot water for my children. I feel useles and helpless and I keep gettign told I cannot get that money back. Do any of you knwo if there is a way to get that money back from them? Or have any advice?
I am sorry I needed to get this off my chest because aside from my DH and government useless agnecies I have told no one. I do not want them to feel bad for us or try to give us any money. They do not have it either and I needed to vent but also ask for advice.
Thank you.

[Jim S.]

Dunno your location but...

1.) Go to your local agencies and ask for help. You can get heating assistance, food pantry help, and many chrches have funds set up to help folks in financial binds. ASK FOR HELP! Do not be stoic about this...it takes a village, and there are places you can get help. Check your local United Way agency.

2.) Do you qualify for food stamps? Find out. Now is not the time for PRIDE, it is time to find out.

3.) Have you contacted your mortgage company to explain the IRS situation and ask for help with refinancing or somehow juggling your debt?

4.) Have you contacted the IRS and asked about this situation since it happened? Don't be confrontational, explain yourself and ask them how it can be worked out so you can pay back and still take care of your kids.

5.) Do you have a big-city daily newspaper nearby? Call and ask to speak to the city editor. Explain your situation. Ask him or her if they could help you or do a story on your plight. This could bring you help, or it could result in the IRS backing down some.

The key is to be nice, not confrontational, and ask for help.

[maremouse]

Well Jim S. I have called the mortgage company and they basically said " too bad". Tehy offer no help whatsoever except for spreading the payments out and it comes to an extra $1,000 per month and I do not have it.
Tried HUD no luck there either. CAtholic Charities was a number given to me and I called them as well. The $100 they offered me would not help me at this time and I will not tkae it from somone who that truly will help.
We do not qualify for food stamps.
Not only did I go to the IRS office I went packing a ton of evidence. Cut off notice for electricity, bills the bounced and so forth. I then spoke to another more helpful office and he is going to try and stop the next garnishment. It is this one that is royally #&%*#& us over. I know yelling get you nowhere so I am trying hard to be nice and not break down.
I have no problem calling these agencies and so forth. It is the people around me I do not want to know. So I guess I would really have to thing about the newspaper thing. They aren't doing well financially either and I do not wnat them tring to ehlp when they need help as well.
When it comes to feeding my kids I am fine. I have a pantry that will just have to be completely emptied out and I can sell things if I have to. It is the heat and hot water that is getting to me and we have nothing here that will help you get propane. I looked for that most of the afternoon.
Thank you for you advice.

[Beeman]

I don't think the IRS would give you back any money. I feel for your situation and I think you need more than just money right now. I don't know where you live or what your family community situation is. I would look towards someone that could counsel you and possibly help act as a go between with your creditors and such. I don't think the bank would really want your house and might be willing to work with you. It's really hard giving advice,counseling someone when all you're doing is dealing with a post in a forum. I think you might need to get someone that is nearby. Try your local church and other local organizations, also go to the library as they seem to always have all of the community info and agencies that can help.

[fantasymaker]

Sounds like you may need to consider "sell out and get out" I know ya hate to bu it might work. Or simply ask irs if they want anything you have?

[Linda H]

First of all, most of IRS collections is now done by private collection agencies. Thus the reason you most likely got lied to. the people that work for the collection outfits get paid on commission.

The very first thing that you need to do is fill out this Form. The collection person who talked toyou should of explained that to you

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f433f.pdf

When you have it filled out, call the IRS 1-800-829-1040 and make sure you are speaking to someone in collection department.

There is a possibility that you can get part of your husbands paycheck back. It depends if the employer has actually sent the money or not. You can definetely stop them from getting any future paychecks if you contact the irs.
IRS (not the collection agencies) bases your payments on what you can actually afford to pay. If when you fill out that Form that I provided, have no money left over for payments to irs, then you make no payments. IRS calls that situation currently not collectable.

Another word of advice is when you get to a collection rep at IRS (make sure to ask them if they work in the collection department (ask something like are you an experienced collection person?), then calmly (as possible) explain what happened. 75% of the workers are people just like you, 25% are hardnosed. If you get a hardnosed person, excuse yourself use some excuse such as "my kid just fell" etc. Don't get in a ----ing contest with the person., and call back. Chances are you'll get a nice person the second time. I know it will be hard, but the person you get on the phone, is not the person that "took" your husband's paycheck.

the key words you want to use is, "Is there any way you can lift (remove) the levy on my husbands paycheck. Explain that you have a completed financial statement with you that shows you cannot pay. The form 433 is called a financial statement. Be sure that it is completed before you call, other wise they'll tell you they'll mail you one which will drastically delay getting the levy released.

I know that you were "wronged" by the IRS or its representative, but if you call in and focus your conversation on being "wronged", you'll not accomplish anything. It will only serve to make the person you're talking to get defensive. Instead focus on getting a workable solution for your family. That form that i provided will get your future paychecks to you.
If you need any other info feel free to pm me.

also if the debt is only in your husband's name, make sure he's there when you call. They will not discuss the case with you, if he's the one oweing. Their hours are till8pm pacific.

Also just in case the employer hasn't sent the money, be sure to have the employer's fax number so the levy release can be faxed.

[logbuilder]

Wow Linda. Now that was GOOD and helpful info. You just demonstrated the power of this virtual community to help each other. Thanks!

Maremouse, listen to Linda. Sounds like she knows what she is talking about.

[brreitsma]

If it is the money not being available because it is garnished you can try work that is not on a payroll. It is spring the different carnivals will be running soon. Most are very unregulated, no identification taken, no payroll and straight cash. The commissions for the game operators escpecially if you travel can be very nice. I don't know your situation but maybe it could work until you can get the garnishment situation resolved.

[maremouse]

Well Fantasy selling and getting out is just that...fatansy. The county let us buy and put a modular home on this property. Permits and the Certificate of Occupancy all without having "legal access". No realtor will touch it. I have tried 3 of them. Getting legal access is a different fight and one I have been doing for a couple of years now.
Thank you Linda. I thought I was speaking to the actual IRS!
I went on Monday and spoke with the "TAC"? person. They made me wait and hour but I refused to be grouchy. He can stop the levy, but says I cannot get the money they took. Which quite honestly does not heat my house. I am really trying hard not to loose my temper.
I have a couple of questions about the IRS Linda and I will p/m them to you. Thank you for all that info I am going to give that man the payroll dept fax number so if/when he stops it it can be recevied right away.

[edcopp]

The IRS can do anything they want. They answer to nobody in most cases.

Forget about getting any money back from them, it just won't happen.

I don't know if you did your own taxes (it sounds like you did) or if you had someone prepare them for you. I would suggest seeking a professional firm that could review your taxes, for free. Your local community action agency or some similar agency in your area can point you in the right direction.

Next play hardball:

Quit all jobs. Deep breath. You are now officially broke. Contact all agencies that might help you. Start off with HEAP (home energy assistance program) in my state. may be called something else in your area. They have an emergency program adn will have propane for you within 1 day. They may help also on an emergency basis with electric, if there is a shutoff notice.

Visit every food pantry, shelter and other assistance agency that you can find. You need help, and you need it now.

Next time you talk with the mortgage company tell them to stop bothering you, you are destitute. Tell the person calling that you will be moving out of the house when the sheriff comes to set your belongings out of the house and not 10 seconds sooner. You need to live somewhere so the house you are now living in will do for now, for free. Then hang up.

Apply at your local HUD office and seek housing assistance, for the future.

Apply for a medical card, food stamps, and whatever other benefits that you can get. Do it now. Ask everybody that you know about assistance programs. There are many that we don't even know about. Should be a piece of cake. If you can put up with an IRS agent you can survive anything.

Now if you decide to work only do so if you can be paid in cash, no paper trail. Close your bank account. You do not need it you have no money. Use an old sock, be sure the sock does not already have a hole in it.

Just relax and enjoy your early retirement the IRS has forced your hand, and you have little choice.

Perhaps we can get a thread going on survival camping in a house that has no utilities on at the time. At any rate it's only bad if you think it is. The government now may have the job of supporting you and yours full time. It was their choice and not a good one at that.

[brreitsma]

[QUOTE]Just relax and enjoy your early retirement the IRS has forced your hand, and you have little choice.[QUOTE]

That is always another option.

[oldgaredneck]

Gives more ammo to the fight to TOTALLY abolish the IRS and just have a flat 10% tax on everything - no withholding, no filing, no government agency putting good people like you in a bind!

[paulaswolfpack]

yes you should be able to get the help with heating are you in MO.
http://www.oaiwp.org/
it would be a group like this one I have not had to buy propane but 1 time in 3 years,paula

[arabian knight]

Originally Posted by oldgaredneck

Gives more ammo to the fight to TOTALLY abolish the IRS and just have a flat 10% tax on everything - no withholding, no filing, no government agency putting good people like you in a bind!

No not that way,, but this is the way to go
http://www.fairtax.org/
This will also do away with the IRS, and this is making its way through the legislator now.~

[maremouse]

I agree Knight. I have read about it before and thought it would be great if it actually happened.
Old, I too wish they would go away.
Ed and Paula thank you for the heating advice. It is called LEAP here. Tehy say they say they are closed for the season. I checked that would be April 30th. I am not giving up that easily. I have emailed them and have their number. Ed I don't think we can quit yet and HUD told me
I just got to keep trying. Feel like I am running in a circle. But advice I have received here makes me run in a new one heck maybe I am getting somewhere?
Linda thank you as well!

[edcopp]

Originally Posted by maremouse

I agree Knight. I have read about it before and thought it would be great if it actually happened.
Old, I too wish they would go away.
Ed and Paula thank you for the heating advice. It is called LEAP here. Tehy say they say they are closed for the season. I checked that would be April 30th. I am not giving up that easily. I have emailed them and have their number. Ed I don't think we can quit yet and HUD told me
I just got to keep trying. Feel like I am running in a circle. But advice I have received here makes me run in a new one heck maybe I am getting somewhere?
Linda thank you as well!

I'm just getting old and comfy I guess. I draw a Social Security pension (paid in for 47 years). This in itself is quite interesting. The last years that I worked I worked sometimes, part time , low pay etc. Working poor would be the proper term. Now I am retired on as much as I made when I worked.

I went through The IRS nightmare a couple of times in the last 30 years or so. They never got a dime and wasted tens of thousancs of taxpayer dollars doing that. The system is broke, and broke bad.

We have so many living off of the system that it will be impossible to fix this mess. At least I do not see a solution. I live in a lightly populated county. We have about 13,000 population and usually are the poorest per capita income county in Ohio. For 40 or 50% of this population the solution is the system. If you wanted to work you would need to move. The county budget goes first and foremost to the welfare department, the largest employer and then the school system. There are a few dozen other government agencies along with some non profits and the rest is "not much"

Anyway I know about the fuel thing from having a heart attack two years ago without insurance. Whats $130,000 among friends?

I heat with wood. You could too take a window out and run your chimney pipe through the space then trim it in with metal, etc. Who's gonna stop you? You need heat. My income level qualified me for Emergency HEAP. So I filled out the questionare and the application was approved on the spot. The lady then called a supplier for me and I talked with him. He brought the wood the next morning. In Ohio the emergency voucher for wood and my family size is for 2 1/2 cords. Figured at $100 per cord. Then there was a regular voucher later in the winter for $202 toward additional wood. So I added $48 of my own money for the seconf 2 1/2 cord load. Five cords for $48 of my own money. I can't do that with earned money.

There are other programs all over the place too. Everybody who does not work knows all about them. Those that do work are too busy working and driving one or two hours each way to notice. Free meals, reduced fee medical and dental services and so on. A lot of free care for seniors.

I always felt the the population should be able to retire at 30 and properly raise the youngsters. Go back to work 30 or 40 years later part time, if money is needed. I object to paying taxes to a government that wastes the money, so I do my best to avoid taxation

[GrannyG]

When DH and I just married, his ex took everything and he had to sell his store, she got all the money, cleaned him out good (I didn't know him at the time, but everyone says it is true) and a couple months after we wed, the IRS closed all my bank accts. Took out $$$$ from my money, my savings from my deceased husbands stuff and told me I was MRS so and so and owed it. I told them they had the wrong MRS but it did no good. I had to hire an attorney and we filed suit to get my accounts unfrozen and my money returned. Took months, and I never did get money back on the atty fees. Then about 8 years later, we had an audit. There are those who do not pay their plumbing bills and they were listed. They told us we were liars, we had collected that money, and we had to pay another $800, and as God is my witness, we never recieved a cent, the list was the truth. They don't care, it is like a catch 22.The old saying, death and taxes is so true.

[Terri]

Maremouse, somebody said you lived in Missouri?

I really hate to say this, but there is going to be one last gasp of winter, and it is heading your way. In East Central Kansas, it is just starting to sleet. Do you have a working COOKING stove? By all means run it, but only while people are awake!

Do you remember the ice storm a few years back when the power went out? It is time to get into that mind set again.

On the GOOD side, it is going to warm up REALLY fast as soon as this current disturbance passes, tomorrow we are expecting 70. So, you have the next day to get through.

[jacksun65]

ive had some dealing with the irs. the best advice i got was from an agent and she said if there is a problem take it to arbitration court they mostly lean towards the taxpayer. the irs is a crooked orginazation if you have to deal with them do it through a lawyer.

[OkieDavid]

Maremouse- What state are you in?? If it was posted, I just missed it in amongst the "in my state..." posts. Might be a few of us close enough to at least get you a warm house and a hot water sponge bath.

David