Propane question (regarding to 1st notice)

LittleRedHen · #1 03/01/07, 03:44 PM

My husband built an outdoor wood furnace last winter and he let the propane man fill up our tank in March of 06. Big mistake! We thought we would fill it up and then use it sparsely but the propane man said afterwards that we would be paying a rental fee on the tank if we didn't purchase such and such amount a year. I think its at least a fill up..

So we used our stove minimally this year while trying to burn up the entire 500 gallon tank before March of this year. We thought we had til March 10th but I got papers today that says March 3rd and that they will charge us 180 dollars yearly rental fee for their tank.

So technically I was a week off. We have 9% left and they do not give a reimbursement for the propane that is left. And if its above 5% then they will charge us a pump out fee. Well we want to burn up that 9% and give them an empty tank. I planned on cooking a bunch of turkeys and some other things on Tuesday when we get money. I could definately have that 9% burned up by next weekend but no way can I get it burned up by Saturday... Argh...

The paper says if we are no longer using the equipment that we are to call them to schedule a pick up for removal but also if we do not pay the 180 or have a fill up within the next 30 days that they will schedule it themselves.

So my question is... How long can I delay the removal in order to get my 9% burned up without them sticking me with 180 dollar rental fee? The paper says this is my first notice so i would expect a 2nd or 3rd notice before they take it.. If they take it in 2 weeks would they still try and get 180 from us?

Anyone have this happen before? what did you do? I just need a week. Maybe I could call them thursday and say come monday or something and give myself a little more time. This winter was so mild that we just burned it a bit slower than expected but yet we are still within spitting distance to get it burned up. A normal week of heating the house equals about 5% all by itself so i just need 4% burn off of some really good cooking :P

CGUARDSMAN · #2 03/01/07, 03:52 PM

We Dropped Down To A 250 Lb. Tank And Haven't Heard A Peep From Them.

RedneckPete · #3 03/01/07, 03:54 PM

Spin the fitting off the top of the tank and crack open the valve.

When you get down the the volume you need, close the valve.

Pete

Thatch · #4 03/01/07, 03:54 PM

Call them up and schedule a date for them to come pick it up a week or two out from now. Just tell them you want to be there for the removal to keep an eye on things and your not available until X date. I can't imagine they are chomping at the bit to jump in the truck on the date of the letter to come pick it up anyway.

J

mistletoad · #5 03/01/07, 04:01 PM

First thing I would do is double check your contract - our propane company tried to charge us a rental fee because we didn't fill all the tanks one year, but our contract says we only have to buy $30 worth of propane per month between October and March - ie. $180 a yr which is nowhere near a fill-up.

The bad news is that if they are right I can't imagine any amount cooking will use up enough propane to get your percentage down in time.

LittleRedHen · #6 03/01/07, 04:03 PM

Well our last resort is to just open and let er rip. Theres no way we want them to get any propane just to resell to someone else. I just figured if i get my turkey cooking done now then thats less cooking to do in the summer when its hot anyways. Then in the summer I will just reheat it a bit and dump it all over freshly baked bread. OOooooh im drooling already.

I will wait til Tuesday when I am already cooking lol and say "Hey could you come......." and set up a time. Dh was just not sure if they would charge us the fee even if they got it back lets say march 4th.

We are going to get a 100 gallon cylinder just for cooking and heat back up but he is buying our own tank and we are not using this company for their propane anymore. We will just go to a local guy who just fills tanks but he isn't a "company" like Excell is.

uncle Will in In. · #7 03/01/07, 04:04 PM

Don't know where you live, but if your area is like most would there be a possibility that they might cut up your lawn or whatever picking up the tank? I'd just call them and tell them they can have the tank anytime the ground gets dry enough to do it properly.

LittleRedHen · #8 03/01/07, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistletoad

First thing I would do is double check your contract - our propane company tried to charge us a rental fee because we didn't fill all the tanks one year, but our contract says we only have to buy $30 worth of propane per month between October and March - ie. $180 a yr which is nowhere near a fill-up.

The bad news is that if they are right I can't imagine any amount cooking will use up enough propane to get your percentage down in time.

I am not aware of where our contract would be. I know we signed something when we moved in 5 years ago but most of the dealings was through the house contractor who set most of it up. I can look but I am not sure if we would even have it anymore.

I figure I can always jack the house up to 90 degrees and whip open the windows too.. The one time that it would be okay to heat the outdoors. It needs a little push and shove

LittleRedHen · #9 03/01/07, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle Will in In.

Don't know where you live, but if your area is like most would there be a possibility that they might cut up your lawn or whatever picking up the tank? I'd just call them and tell them they can have the tank anytime the ground gets dry enough to do it properly.

Michigan..most of its still snow covered at the moment. Maybe they would like to wait a few weeks until they can reach it easier :P

stanb999 · #10 03/01/07, 05:12 PM

Not to hijack... The propane Co. also has a little problem with us. When we bought the house it had only propane for heat. So the tank is 500 gallons. We use 99% wood to heat so we use almost no propane. They say they wish to take the tank and replace it for a fee. I however do not and in the past have not had a contract with them. So I say leave it. It has gone back and forth 4 times in the past 2 years. I'm getting to the point that I may challenge their ownership of the tank as it was on the property when we bought and they failed to remove it. As such they were storing their tank here for free. So I've decided to use it for free. Lets see how they do with no contract.

KCM · #11 03/01/07, 05:19 PM

Don't worry about it. Tell them to come anytime they want, but that you want 24 hours notice.

If you are at 9% right now, I have to believe you'll be down to 5% by whatever day they show up. At that point just let them take whatever is left in the tank. Do NOT let it out into the air. They will have to pay you for whatever is left. If its still at 6% or 7%, they probably aren't going to raise a fuss.

Explorer · #12 03/01/07, 05:25 PM

It probably will take a while for you two to work out a removal date. Heat your house until the tank is empty or you can not stand the odor anymore. Yes, as you get near empty it will smell as the gas company adds an odorant to the fuel. This odorant is heaver than the fuel and tends to sink to the bottom of the tank and is the last to be used. By the time it is used the % by volume has increased and it will smell. Shouldn't take long as you are only talking about 40-50 gal.

quietstar · #13 03/01/07, 06:49 PM

If you have a lockable access(gate or whatever) call, or better yet fax them a request to get their tank out of the way before the lease expires but come when you are home to make sure they don't damage your valuable landscaping. Lock the gate and don't answer the phone number they have and don't answer the door to any walk-up visitors til you are ready. This just proves what life has taught me. There is no substitute for true independence. Make it your goal and get there as soon as possible. Inconsiderate and unreasonable business people deserve to fail, especially in the country...Glen

TxGypsy · #14 03/01/07, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCM

Don't worry about it. Tell them to come anytime they want, but that you want 24 hours notice.

If you are at 9% right now, I have to believe you'll be down to 5% by whatever day they show up. At that point just let them take whatever is left in the tank. Do NOT let it out into the air. They will have to pay you for whatever is left. If its still at 6% or 7%, they probably aren't going to raise a fuss.

I hate to contradict you but this is incorrect. They do not have to pay you for the propane in the tank( I worked for a propane company). According to the contract you signed....you are the one in violation. By the way it is a pretty standard contract.
It isn't worth the propane companies time to provide you with a tank....without any cost to you.....unless you buy a certain amount of their product. Now having said that. They are probably not sitting in the office looking at the calender trying to figure out the first day they can come snatch your tank. This is their busy season....they probably don't have the extra time to come pick up your tank. The letters main purpose is to scare you into purchasing gas. Yes you can insist that they wait until the ground is firm so that they don't mess up your property. You can also insist that someone be there when they come. They are liable for damages and they have no desire to pay you for ruts.
On this part I am unsure....if they pick up the tank I don't believe they can charge you rent. Mostly those letters are sent out in hope of getting you to purchase gas. Oh another thing.......most companies reckon that if you all of a sudden quit buying your normal amount of gas from them, that you are probably buying gas from another company. They definately have no interest in providing you a tank so that another company can put gas in it! I dealt with a lot of that. You might simply explain to them that your usage has gone way down and that you are not buying propane from another company.

LittleRedHen · #15 03/02/07, 08:12 AM

no they will not pay us for what is left. It is stated on the notice

LittleRedHen · #16 03/02/07, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxGypsy

I hate to contradict you but this is incorrect. They do not have to pay you for the propane in the tank( I worked for a propane company). According to the contract you signed....you are the one in violation. By the way it is a pretty standard contract.
It isn't worth the propane companies time to provide you with a tank....without any cost to you.....unless you buy a certain amount of their product. Now having said that. They are probably not sitting in the office looking at the calender trying to figure out the first day they can come snatch your tank. This is their busy season....they probably don't have the extra time to come pick up your tank. The letters main purpose is to scare you into purchasing gas. Yes you can insist that they wait until the ground is firm so that they don't mess up your property. You can also insist that someone be there when they come. They are liable for damages and they have no desire to pay you for ruts.
On this part I am unsure....if they pick up the tank I don't believe they can charge you rent. Mostly those letters are sent out in hope of getting you to purchase gas. Oh another thing.......most companies reckon that if you all of a sudden quit buying your normal amount of gas from them, that you are probably buying gas from another company. They definately have no interest in providing you a tank so that another company can put gas in it! I dealt with a lot of that. You might simply explain to them that your usage has gone way down and that you are not buying propane from another company.

Thank you... I hadn't thought about all of that perceptive either.

texican · #17 03/02/07, 08:50 AM

Haven't got a clue whether this'll work or not but....

I have a valve I can connect to the big tank and fill up my portable tanks (Hate buying those tiny tanks to use with my camp stoves...) You might be able to purchase one of the refilling kits, and drain your big tanks down into the little 5 gallon tanks... if you don't have enough of the tanks, call your relatives and friends...have them come over and get some gas, before the company takes it!

amwitched · #18 03/02/07, 09:39 AM

Why don't you want to pay the rental fee on the tank? That is normal. I guess that if you did use the entire tank during the year then you would get a "rent free" year.

We have a 250 lb tank and the rental fee would have been $65 a year, but they gave us the option to buy it for $300. Since I am "never" going to move, I did choose to buy it.

I'm just a bit confused.

JayinCT · #19 03/02/07, 01:02 PM

I'm quite sure filling smaller tanks won't work. It's the liquid propane that is pumped into your portable gas bottles to fill them, not vapor. 9% of the 500 gallon tank is only 45 pounds left inside. Take that and divide it by 4.23 (The weight of 1 gallon of propane) and it's only 10.63 gallons left in the tank. Seems to me that's pretty close to being empty. I'm sure they won't be coming right out the moment you call them to remove the tank, so I would call them and speak to them, and if they do want to come right out, then use the ace on the hole and tell them it's too wet to get to it. They'll have to wait till the weather improves and you can schedule to be there while they remove it.

Jay

arbutus · #20 03/02/07, 01:24 PM

9% of the 500 gallon tank is 45 gallons.
45 gallons x 4.23 lbs per gallon is close to 200 pounds.

Call them to come get the tank, but tell them you want the ground to be firm when they do come get it. Use what's left, and bleed the rest off the day before they show up.

I was thinking about switching from Shell to Excel. Shell sent me a new terms and conditions sheet that now has a minimum usage. This year was our first year that we didn't meet their minimum usage due to heating with wood. The lady I purchased the house from supposedly bought the tank way back in the day, so I might be exempt, but they might try to claim the tank is theirs. We'll see what happens.