Electricy problem Help?

sue currin · #1 02/27/07, 07:57 AM

In my cabin when the pump comes on at the same time that the hot water heater is trying to heat up water, the braker trips, and it does this at the pole not the box inside the house. I have to turn off the water heater and flip the switch at the pole. It has worked find up until I turned on a few more things in the house. They are on there own circuit. What should I check?

**GREENCOUNTYPETE** · #2 02/27/07, 08:13 AM

you could start by replacing the breaker at the pole but if that does not do it
and amp meter will be nessacary to see how much you are drawing , does it exceed the breaker

what amprage is the breaker at the pole and how many amps of breakers do you have in you sub pannels

if the amount in your sub pannels signifiganly exceeds the main at the pole----

also is it a gfci breaker

cfabe · #3 02/27/07, 08:21 AM

What is the amperage of the breaker that is tripping, and what loads are running through it? Is this your main breaker? If it is the main, and it's a 60 amp service (which was a common service back in the 50s-70s, you may simply have outgrown your service. It doesn't matter how many "total amps" of breakers you have in the panel, what matters is the actual load. If you have an electric hot water heater, it could be drawing 30 amps, a well pump could draw another 15 or 20, add in all of your lighting and normal appliances, maybe another power hog like an electric space heater, toaster, microwave, etc, you may just have too much stuff running on your service. It's also possible the main breaker is wearing out and is tripping at too low of a load, maybe tripping at 50 amps instead of 60. If you or someone else can use a clamp on amp meter to measure the current on both hot wires, and you find that the breaker should not be tripping, replace the breaker.

One possible quick fix would be to disconnect one of the elements in your hot water heater if your heater has two. This would save you about 10 amps and probably keep the breaker from tripping, though you would have slower recovery on your hot water.

palani · #4 02/27/07, 09:23 AM

Check by hand to see if anything is getting hot (as in loose connection). Be sure and stay away from any conductors when you are doing this though. In fact it would be better to get an electrician in.

Could be the heat from the current flow through a loose connection is tripping out the breaker.

SteveD(TX) · #5 02/27/07, 09:44 AM

You've been given some good advice, but be careful. My advice is: Unless you know quite a bit about wiring and electrical circuts, CALL AN ELECTRICIAN.

rambler · #6 02/27/07, 11:37 AM

The short answer is you are drawing more amps from the pole to your house than what can be drawn.

The breaker might be damaged, putting in a new one of the same size would fix that.

There may be a lose connection somewhere - which is difficult to track down, but causes heat & sparking 'somewhere' and this makes the breaker trip. This is a dangerous situation, and more common with aluminum feeder wire if not properly installed.

If neither of those, likely you will need a new wire from the pole to the house, main supply, and a bigger service breaker.

I think you need an electrician, this gets complicated & is a serious upgrade.

You can't just put a bigger breaker out at the pole. It is there to protect the wire between the pole & the house. If you only replace the breaker, you effectively turn the wire between your house & pole into a heater coil in a toaster.

You do not want to do that.

To sum up:

Either something is malfuntioning, which is a safety hazard.

Or, you are trying to pull more power down the main wire feed than it can handle, which is a rather intense thing to upgrade.

Either way, you should have an electrician to sort it out with the proper tools & knowledge. You are at that point, sorry.

With a _lot_ more info from you (size of breaker, size & type of wire, length of wire, size of breaker box in house, what all is being used at the same time, etc.) we could make some better guesses - but in the end, you likely will need an electrician to fix a hidden problem or install a better feed wire.

--->Paul

thedonkeyman · #7 02/27/07, 12:36 PM

In Maine ? I would ,think you would, use a wood heated water sysytem.

Hammer4 · #8 02/27/07, 01:25 PM

Contact your power company, tell them what is happening and ask them if they can check their side of things for free....most of them will do that. If the power company side is ok, you most likely are drawing more amps then your pole breaker can handle, so you either need to upgrade that ( and the cable coming in from that box, and possibly the breaker box in the house as well ) or turn some of the things off in the house....or get a propane hot water heater....and buy propane to heat the water.

sue currin · #9 02/27/07, 05:36 PM

I undid the top element of the water heater, It now workes great, I also put an oman meter on the wires going into the house and got a reading of 45. It should be 60. Is the braker at the pole my responsiblity or the power company's? I will go and get one and replace it, Ijust need to know what to do. Thanks

cfabe · #10 02/27/07, 08:21 PM

The breaker would be your equipment most likely, call the power company to make sure. Keep in mind that the disconnect breaker will have to be replaced with the box live, unless you have the power company come out and pull the meter for you. An electrician would probably just do it live. But don't attempt that if you're not comfortable with it.

doing it in NM · #11 03/01/07, 09:02 PM

Sue, your panel seems old 60amp mains are seldom used now, It has a very good chance of being a screw to bar breaker instead of a snap in. This means you have 2 screws that go into the bus bar that holds the breaker on. They are undone live by an electrican, but shouldn't be done by someone who has never done it.

By undoing one waterheater element, you not only lose recovery but your water doesn't get hot thru out the tank. If it is set at 120 on top the bottom may only be 100. This make less hot water and a higher electric bill.

60 amp homes usually had gas for heat, cooking and water, if you tried to go all electric or mostly electric you have out grown the panel. Usually speaking the power compny only came into the meter with wire sized for the panel so by just putting in a larger breaker won't be safe.

agmantoo · #12 03/01/07, 10:07 PM

Water heaters are designed that both heating elements are NOT on at the same time. Disconnecting the top element should not have done anything unless the element is shorted. The top element is used only when running low on hot water.

rambler · #13 03/05/07, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sue currin

I undid the top element of the water heater, It now workes great, I also put an oman meter on the wires going into the house and got a reading of 45. It should be 60. Is the braker at the pole my responsiblity or the power company's? I will go and get one and replace it, Ijust need to know what to do. Thanks

Breakers should only be used to 80% of their rating, so your breaker is doing about the right thing?

You've just outgrown what you have.

Electric motors kicking on will be your problem, they trip breakers real bad when the load is high. Their starting current can run 3-5 times their rated draw.

--->Paul