woodstove question

[Janette]

We have a woodstove in our livingroom, which provides most of the heat for our home. We recently bought this place, so we're still figuring everything out.

Earlier this month my DH was having a problem getting enough air to burn a good fire. He had some wood burning in there, but it didn't seem to burn well. He tapped on the chimney pipes and some crud came down and cut off the air supply. Soon, if he opened the door a crack, smoke would come billowing out. Okay. It was clear we had a problem.

Dh said he checked the chimney from the roof in the Spring of '06. It was clear, he thought. We called a firefighter, who suggested we use a fire extinguisher, just opening a door a wee crack, to keep too much smoke from coming out. Well, you can imagine what spraying at an angle did. What a mess! I'm sure just as much landed on the outside as inside the stove.

I tell you, what a horrible stench that powder has!!!!!!! Clouds of yellow powder went up into the room with that effort and it was nasty!!!!!!! I ran out of the room to breathe.We cleaned the area around the stove up as best as we could but the next day, removing each piece of unburned wood, I could hardly breathe. I vacuumed it up as best as I could, and changed the bag afterwards.

So I'm wondering, IF that ever happens again, would the fire not just go out on it's own without oxygen? Was it necessary to put it out? DH thinks that we would still get smoke coming out of somewhere because of air intakes and such. I don't really understand how that all works.

The next day he got up onto the roof and used a borrowed chimney sweep to put down the pipes. There was SOME crud, but not a whole lot...just enuf to plug things up. He also took the air compreeor and cleaned out that whole stove, removing and replacing the bricks and vacuumed everything. I was working an overnight shift.

Whadya think about this?

[RoseGarden]

Sounds awful, sorry that happened to you! I can only speak from the experience I have with my own stove.

When I get on the roof and sweep the stovepipe, I sweep it all the way down to the stove. Means having a very long extension, but it's worth the trouble. Next, make sure the spark arrestor cap on top, if it has a mesh screen like mine does, is not gunked up. That will also keep your stove from drawing well. Then check to make sure all the air intakes on the stove are opening all the way and letting air into the stove and that they're not clogged up with anything. Does your stove have a catalyst? That might need replacing. Not to be insulting, but if it does have a catalyst, is the damper (which makes the air flow through the catalyst) open when you start the fire? If it has a catalyst, the damper should be open until the stove gets hot, whereupon you close the damper. Also, if yours does have a catalyst, there will be an additional air intake adjustment on the stove for the catalyst that needs to be checked to make sure it is not clogged and is functioning properly.

One other thing is that if the temps inside and outside are close enough together, stoves often won't draw and will 'backpuff'. For an example, where I live, I can't make a fire until the outside temp is 55 degrees or lower. Otherwise, I get backpuffing. Also, you need to have a bit of air coming into the house to have the stove draw. An airtight house sometimes won't draw well. Try leaving a window open a tiny little crack.

Is your stovepipe the proper height? I don't recall the formula, but the top of the stovepipe needs to be a certain height above the rooftop because of the way the slope of the roof interferes with air currents.

If you are asking if it would be better to have just shut the air intakes on the stove so the fire would go out, well, that depends on how badly it was smoking up your house, I guess, and how truly airtight those intakes are. On my stove, a really nice DutchWest, the air intakes still let in a tiny bit of air, by no means 'airtight', so I don't think mine would ever go out completely just by shutting the intakes. I think if I were in your situation with the stove smoking up the house, I, personally, would have opted to have removed the burning wood with fireproof gloves. I did that once, just grabbed the burning wood and threw it out the door. Certainly not the best solution, but it worked for me. Also, if you wanted to just close the air intakes and they did manage to be fully airtight, you will have to leave them closed for quite a while because there will still be viable coals in the stove that will reignite when you open the stove to remove the charred wood.

I really don't know what else to suggest, other than to just keep trying to find places where the stove's air convection system could be plugged with creosote or something. No barn swallows got down in the stovepipe and made nests? Maybe someone else has suggestions?

Good luck!

[sheepish]

The air supply for a wood stove does not come down the chimney, it goes out the chimney. You blocked off the chimney when you knocked down the crud, so the obly place the smoke could exit was into the room. Opening the door adds oxygen to the fire, so it should burn brighter, but the smoke needs a place to escape. If you really think the fire is not getting enough air, figure out where the air supply comes from when the doors are closed and make sure that is not obstructed.

it seems more likely that your chimney has a problem. Get a real chimney sweep to clean and check it out. They will be able to tell you if there are problems with the condition or construction, as well as cleaning it properly. This is a safety issue. Obviously your DH's DIY skills do not extend to chimney inspection.

If you really want to try it yourself, don't light a whole fire. Just burn a bit of newspaper and see what happens.

[Cindy in KY]

Is your stovepipe straight down to the stove, or does it have an elbow?
Elbows are no good, the stuff gets stopped there. You have to let the fire go almost totally out to clean an elbow inside the house.

You should have gone outside to see if smoke was coming out the pipe. If it was, you could have just let it go down on it's own. You need to figure out all the little knobs and air flow on your stove. Post the kind of stove you have on here, and I'm sure someone else has one like it, and will know how it sucks air. They are all different.


My stovepipe is straight down into the firebox. We have a big Kitchen Queen cookstove, with a big metal pipe straight up flue. I actually have always "popped" out the pipe every day so I don't have to worry about it. I have a slider door on the back, I open it so as the stuff falls into the firebox. And I pop the pipe inside and then go up the ladder a wee bit outside and pop it up there too. (when the fire is just coals) I get 2-3 cups of stuff each time. I burn aluminum cans every day, 1 or 2, and that helps to make the soot light and flaky and not sticky.

After it's popped out (I can't hear anymore falling down) I use my poker and with a flashlight shining, clean out the fall down area into the box. Then I shut the slider on the back and I know it's clean. I also dump the ash pan every day also.

Once a month, I have to let the stove go down where it's just warm to the touch on the oven side, and I have to clean out all around the oven, top, sides and bottom. It takes an hour or so, and scratches up my arms. There is a clean out door on the back to empty out that stuff. Soot comes off way better if it is still warm. Very hard to clean if it's cold.

[Cabin Fever]

To answer your original questions:

Originally Posted by Janette

....So I'm wondering, IF that ever happens again, would the fire not just go out on it's own without oxygen? .....

Yes

Originally Posted by Janette

....Was it necessary to put it out? .....

If there was no smoke coming out into the room after you shut the woodstove doors, my answer would be "No."

[Janette]

Thank you, Cabin Fever. for those answers. And later, I'll respond to the rest of those who commented on this woodstove problem, okay?

[Ross]

Sorry I disagree with Cabin. If you have a fire burning with no vent to outside to exhaust the fumes and then you damper it down, you're producing carbon monoxide, in large quantities and it might not stay within the stove. Never a good senerio. If you must then crack a window open so lots of fresh air gets in.

[Rita]

Janette, We had occasion to use a fire extinguisher on our woodstove recently and I agree "what a mess". Thought I would post our experience in that it might make other woodburner folk aware. We were sitting in the room with our stove that we have been using 8 years and we noticed a different sound. We immediately closed down the draft (it's an air-tight stove) but the crackling noise continued. DH got alarmed and we have a container of sand and he threw a large amt in but by now the lower part of the stove pipe was glowing red so he opened the door enough to spray the fire extinguisher in and did that several times and the red began to fade in the pipe. We realized later that the crud from the stovepipe had been dropping onto a "shelf" that is at the back of the stove and this was what caught fire and just closing the damper had no affect on it. Putting out the regular fire had no affect on it. We now keep a bag of ice in the freezer that seems like would be the less messy alternative as you throw the whole bag in (from what we have read) Much less messy than the fire extinguisher, but we sure were glad we had that and that this didn't happen at night as I'm sure it would have set the whole chimney on fire. Very scary!

[Cabin Fever]

Originally Posted by Ross

Sorry I disagree with Cabin. If you have a fire burning with no vent to outside to exhaust the fumes and then you damper it down, you're producing carbon monoxide, in large quantities and it might not stay within the stove. Never a good senerio. If you must then crack a window open so lots of fresh air gets in.

Ross, if CO was exiting the woodstove into the house, so would the smoke from the fire. I prefaced my answer by stating "if smoke was not coming into the house" then I would allow it to burn out.

[Ross]

if CO was exiting the woodstove into the house, so would the smoke from the fire.

That's my point CO is not visable it's tasteless and once cooled it's heavier than air. If the stove has an ash clean out or poorly sealing draft controls it will pour out and start to load the room. I've had my Testo 325M sniffing for CO around a properly functioning wood stove with a good vent. You'd be amazed how much CO is present. Well within "safe" limits but as the CO poisoning effect is cumulative, I'd hate to be in the same room for long, if there wasn't a good exchange of air. Especially if the vent was blocked.

[LamiPub]

I definitely agree to having an expert check out your stove and it's construction. You likely already know this but if you burn "green" wood it causes more build up in the chimney. You really must burn seasoned dry wood. What do you use to start your fire in the stove? We use dry black and white newspaper, our woodpile scraps for kindling or we hack off strips from a seasoned log, and a lighter. We never use any kerosene, gasoline, colored paper, treated wood, or green wood.

[thedonkeyman]

JANETTE, The damper has two holes in it that will get plugged and if you close the damper on the stack, the smoke will not go UP. By the way the damper should be up the pipe and not close to the stove. How far up is the Damper ? As far as starting, I would hope you have a long (deep)one, not one for looks (as a fire place). this way you can start a fire in the back area of it, under the pipe. Now here is something to consider, look all around the back of the stove, there should be a pipe connection to the stove and some cases a hole in the floor in front of the stove letting AIR into the house or stove. IF NOT you will be sucking air out of the house (like a fireplace does). Not long ago there was a thread explaining all of this. If air from under the house is used it is warmer than air sucking from out side. Just have a small hole in one of the vent covers or crawl space cover. Know here is the trick, we are working on a tube from under our house to the stove front vents (each door has one) we need a four inch,pipe(cut in half) to swing across to cover each of these, thinking that the air from under the house will be used to vent the fire, which it should. OH, use seasoned Wood. DO not burn aluminium. Research why, it produces a gas.

[Janette]

Thank you, friends, for taking the time to respond to my post. You're a great bunch.

Our crud, similar to Rita's, fell onto a shelf in about the middle of the stove, up top then. and that's what blocked the airflow, I guess. We did not have a chimney fire, and the crud that fell when DH tapped the pipe did not catch fire. Rather the fire in the stove couldn't get enough oxygen and everytime we opened the stove door smoke came billowing out. Smoke did not come out if the door stayed closed. Because there was still fire in the stove, our volunteer firefighter suggested we use the fire extinguisher, just to be on the safe side.

Dh has since cleaned the chimney, including that spark arrester cap. There really wasn't as much crud up there as I expected. I was in the house when DH cleaned the chimney and heard the crud come down. And yes, it went all the way down, onto that SHELF thingy. He borrowed a chimney sweeper from the neighbours. He then removed all the bricks and cleaned the shelf, cleaned out the stove, and later, with an air compressor, blew everything clean that was part of the stove. It is now as good as new. It now burns a whole lot better...even better than the first winter we lived here. This is our second winter.

We have a Napoleon Free Standing Fireplace...model #1100. Someone was asking.