Manure management in the snow belt

[Ralph in N.E.Oh]

Hi everyone, I spent all day Monday and Tuesday digging out from the winter onslaught that had us in an icy grip for weeks. I have snow piled everywhere from digging out gates and barndoors, clearing the drive and farm lane. I fed my first round bale in 23 days yesterday...today it was 46 ??? last week was below zero and almost a blizzard several times.

Anyway! I usually pile my manure all winter in a 16' x 24' x 5' bunker. Our autumn was so wet that my bunker is now very full. We have 2 foot of snow on top of an endless amount of mud so it is not desirable or possible to spread manure on the fields. I am posting this to save a few newbies from making a mistake when purchasing a manure spreader.

I use draft horses much of the time, but am real glad that I have a PTO spreader ( runs by the power take off on the tractor) I can get to just the end of the field and run the manure off into a pile. Yes, I'll have to handle it again later, but it is a great option. I used to use a ground drive spreader but the wheels slide in the mud and snow....so the ground drive spreader becomes a big sled that doesn't pull too well. You drag it out to the field, jam the load into the beaters then pitch the whole thing off by hand...just like using a sled!

So, when lots of manure becomes a part of your future, keep in ming a good pto spreader is hard to beat. I plan to get a motorized cart to pull with the horses. The motor will run the spreader PTO and the horses will pull the whole affair. I can then use my horses for this job in winter or summer!

There is much to consider when it comes to manure management!

[uncle Will in In.]

Hi Ralph. I guess you have a pretty good handle on the manure business. You need one of those Amish hitch carts with a motor behind the seat. Of course it will have hydraulics and a pto that will let you opperate most tractor equipment. I seen an Amish farmer with 6 horses pulling the motorized cart pulling a 2 row picker with a gravity wagon behind the picker. He was standing up turning on the end with the lines in one hand and reaching back to shut off the elevator on the picker with the other hand. Be sure you have a lead team that will listen when you talk before you try that. Talk about busy. LOL

[pookshollow]

So how do you manage when your tractor gets stuck every time you use it?

We've spent more time digging ours out than we have actually using it for anything. It even got stuck on level ground when it was wet - we have very heavy clay ground - and our neighbour with a 4 wheel drive JD had to pull us out. Right now, it's sitting on an angle in the ditch beside our laneway - it slid off - again on level ground - when we were trying to plow the snow.

It has chains on, for all the good they do. In heavy mud, they just clog up.

We've got a big Percheron/TB mare that we were told is broke to drive - I'm trying to figure out how we could plow snow with her.

[Ralph in N.E.Oh]

Uncle Will you are right on target...a cart is in my future. I like to use a 3-horse hitch. They are a bit wide but easier to turn at the end of the field. AND you are right sometimes it does get "busy", but boy is it fun!

Pooks ... park the tractor. I have a 2-wheel drive Massey that is like a pig on ice! It can't hardly pull itself along let alone be useful in any winter work ... I use my Kubota 35 hp 4-wheel drive for plowing snow and loader work.

I have snowplowed many times with a "V" plow pulled by horses, but when the snow gets deep or you have a large open area to plow the "V" plow is more of a nuscience. Pioneer makes a back blade and cart set up for horses with a manual lift that works pretty well.

Believe me Pook I understand what you mean about heavy clay soils...horses excell at farming on our clay soils here. Just don't work the ground when its wet or you pay all year!

[michiganfarmer]

On a mechanised farm with 80 horse, or bigger tractors it isnt to bad, but I can see where smaller equipment, and horse drawn spreaders could have trouble in the snow

[Up North]

Originally Posted by pookshollow

So how do you manage when your tractor gets stuck every time you use it?

We've spent more time digging ours out than we have actually using it for anything. It even got stuck on level ground when it was wet - we have very heavy clay ground - and our neighbour with a 4 wheel drive JD had to pull us out. Right now, it's sitting on an angle in the ditch beside our laneway - it slid off - again on level ground - when we were trying to plow the snow.

It has chains on, for all the good they do. In heavy mud, they just clog up.

We've got a big Percheron/TB mare that we were told is broke to drive - I'm trying to figure out how we could plow snow with her.

Pookshollow is your tractor properly ballasted? Sounds like there is a lack of weight on the driving axles/wheels if it is sliding that much with chains on.
We use chains for winter ice and snow, take them off when spring comes and things get muddy. Our tractor has cast iron wheel weights and ice chains, and operates on frozen snow/ice pack all winter with very little sliding.

[uncle Will in In.]

POOKS <> Two things I can think of that will help in muddy conditions. A set of duals help keep tractors afloat in muddy ground. Staying off the muddy ground works well. You need to move farther north where the ground freezes. LOL
When you stir muddy clay you are creating a huge brick after the sun dries it out.

[pookshollow]

We are north. Ever heard of Canada?

A set of duals help keep tractors afloat in muddy ground.

What are "duals"? We were driving on muddy ground to put round bales out for the horses. Don't forget, we had the wettest fall in many years. The one time it got stuck in mud, it was on level ground that wasn't all that wet - tires just spun.

[Up North]

Duals are a set of tractor rims and tires that are same size as your rear driving wheel tractor tires. They are mounted with clamps either to outer tractor axle or tractor rim such that you effectively have 2 large tractor tires contacting ground on each side of tractor...Definately help with flotation, traction on soft ground. They also reduce soil compaction.
On Ice, however, they reduce traction by spreading out the weight over more surface contact area. For ice you want lots of weight on a small contact area(and chains).

Anybody got a PIC of their tractor with duals for Pookshollow?

[dcross]

http://www.badiuk.com/images/farm/50...ractor_400.jpg

Not mine!

[pookshollow]

Interesting.

Our tractor is just a small one - an 1970's vintage International 35 hp (I believe). Like I said, it's sitting sideways in the ditch at the moment. I'll have to get a picture of it, see if anyone has any suggestions as to how to get it out!

[Sammy]

Originally Posted by pookshollow

Interesting.

Our tractor is just a small one - an 1970's vintage International 35 hp (I believe).

What Model ?

Sounds like you need some weight on the back end.

[pookshollow]

Yes, we definitely need more weight in the back end - it goes much better when we have a round bale on the rear spike.

I'm not sure what model, I'll have to go look at it when I take Psycho Dog for a walk.

[Up North]

Originally Posted by pookshollow

Interesting.

Our tractor is just a small one - an 1970's vintage International 35 hp (I believe). Like I said, it's sitting sideways in the ditch at the moment. I'll have to get a picture of it, see if anyone has any suggestions as to how to get it out!

Have you tried shoveling down a path for each driving wheel and then putting sand or barn floor lime on the hard surface for grit?
Are rear wheels still in contact with ground or is tractor high-centered(sitting on rear axle pumpkin)? If high centered you will need to shovel down till it's on rear wheels only....Or pull it out with a larger tractor.

[pookshollow]

All four wheels are in contact with the ground, there's no snow in front or behind . . . and it still sits in one spot and spins.

Our dear kind neighbour around the corner says he'll come and pull us out with his 4x4 tractor.

Apparently, the previous owner of this place (and tractor) dropped by today - he used to pull the tractor out all the time - with his pickup truck. So, it's not just us!

[Cloverbud]

I'm told we have some sort of calcium stuff in our drive wheels for additional weight. We also have a 55 gallon drum of solid concrete mounted on the hitch. It's an International 340 with a hydraulic bucket, btw. (If it ain't red, leave it in the shed ) Cleans the drive and moves bales and poop. Also great for putting feedbags in the loft!

[pookshollow]

It's out of the ditch. Our neighbour came over and towed it out, then it didn't want to go up the hill on the driveway. There's a small icy patch on one side - the car and van have no problem negotiating it, but a tractor with chains on wants to slide backwards.

I think we're going to try and sell it and find something with 4-wheel drive. We plan on being here a long, long time, so we might as well make the investment and have something we can use.

[sheepish]

Manure should not be applied to frozen, snow covered ground because it has a much greater risk of contaminating nearby surface water. When the snow melts the water can run off the frozen ground, carrying the nutrients with it into nearby streams ditches and ponds.

This also means that there is less nutrient available to the crops in the spring.

[fordson major]

Originally Posted by sheepish

Manure should not be applied to frozen, snow covered ground because it has a much greater risk of contaminating nearby surface water. When the snow melts the water can run off the frozen ground, carrying the nutrients with it into nearby streams ditches and ponds.

This also means that there is less nutrient available to the crops in the spring.

good advice sheepish, actually the law to an extent in ont.,however he seems too be talking about running the manure off in one place in a pile (still not within regs here but has worked for many years for many farmers)

pooks i would check the ballast in the rear tires and hang a weight off the rear hitch (you can also get weights bolt into the rear wheel hubs). our loader tractor has a weight on the hitch when operateing the loader (well most of the time it has extra weight ie. a blade) not only adds traction but pulls the weight off the front end and prolongs king pins and steering components. 4 wheel drives can be more dangerous, especially in the hands of a novice operator. i would give it some time to let your hubby get used to driving a tractor, all are just a little different . even driving for many years and many (too many at times!) hours you can still have issues on ice! you get great traction with a 4x4 but no better braking or stopping and you can get your self in more trouble!

[Up North]

Originally Posted by Cloverbud

It's an International 340 ... (If it ain't red, leave it in the shed )

If it ain't green, sell the machine .....I'm just funnin' with you we have 3 red internationals along with our green tractors....EOE, LOL.