Arial Pic of homestead, what would you do with the 500 white pines?

[Silvercreek Farmer]

UPDATE: I was able to buy the adjacent vacant lot this spring so at least I have a little more to work with now. I am working on the next place down the line right now, it would be another 3 acres and a double wide. I am haven't spoken with the county agents yet as we still don't know when we are moving up. But I am still open to any ideas..


This is our place in the bold blue outline, we are renting it out right now, but may be moving in sooner than we thought. The property is right at 3 acres, and as you can see about half of it is planted in white pines. We plan on harvesting them at some point in order to turn the area into pasture. I have not spoken with the county forester yet, but I plan to do so before I do anything. Most of the tree are only about 8" in diameter with the exception of the ones on the outside which are closer to 12"-14" (maybe 50 or so). Right now I believe my options include, 1. Having someone come in (someone small and local I assume for an area this small) and cut them out. I don;t know if they have any cash value or not under this senario. 2. Cut them all myself, get them to the road and have someone pick them up for pulp/sawlogs. 3. Cut them myself, buy a sawmill and mill them into boards for personal use and sale. 4. Cut them myself and have someone come in with a portable sawmill and mill them 5. Wait. If the trees will gain significant value over the next several years, I may consider leaving them a bit longer. I am trying to buy the adjacent lot to the south east, this would serve as my pasture.

What do you think? Any guesses to their value would be much appreciated.

[unioncreek]

I'd have someone with a portable sawmill come in and make lumber for you.

Bobg

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Originally Posted by unioncreek

I'd have someone with a portable sawmill come in and make lumber for you.

Bobg

Ah yes, I forgot that one.

[CGUARDSMAN]

Originally Posted by unioncreek

I'd have someone with a portable sawmill come in and make lumber for you.

Bobg

ditto except i would probably select cut so that the ones that you do leave have a chance at growing a little larger and are more marketable.

[MELOC]

the pine is not as valuable for timber sale as many trees. it would have more value if you could use it yourself. i think i was offered 9 cents per board foot during a timber sale last year and i didn't sell them. the forester said he could get it from state lands for 4 cents per board foot. just try to buy pine lumber and see how much you have to pay for it. if you have a use for it, perhaps having lumber milled is a good option.

another option could be to have a paper mill buy it for pulp.

[suburbanite]

Buy the adjacent lot and save the trees until they're larger.

The way deforestation is progressing, you are not only helping the environment by keeping the trees but are also guaranteeing a greater return on investment later--the longer you wait, the more wood you have to sell, and the higher the price you can ask per unit of wood.

Heck, if it were me I'd buy the adjacent lot, turn half to pasture, and start a new grove of trees along the back section so as to have two tree crops in progress. Would have to do some research to find out what species of tree would give the best combo of low maintenance and high return though.

[Paul Wheaton]

Buy this mill for $3900: http://skillmill.com/

Thin the trees. Use or sell the lumber. Burn the scraps to heat your home. Use the sawdust for all sorts of stuff.

Once you have elminated 75% of the trees, the remaining trees will grow 4 times faster.

As you have time, keep thinning and milling the trees. The more you thin, the faster the remaing trees will grow and the healthier they will be. When you get to the point that the trees are thin enough that you can develop pasture between the trees, the trees will make for better pasture than open ground.

This is what agroforestry is all about. Peppering trees throughout pasture makes more feed per acre, plus provides some natural shelter for your critters.

A good tree is better than a fixed shelter in the summer. The shadow of the tree will move around the pasture and the animals will try to keep under that moving shade. So then you wont have just one spot of shade that the animals trash and needs cleaning. With the trees, the manure and wear will be spread out.

[big rockpile]

Don't sound like their big enough to fool with for Lumber,so Pulp wood would be your next option.

big rockpile

[justmyluk]

Buy the lot next door, cut the trees down, build a log cabin with the trees on the lot next door. Then sell the lot you cut the trees from. This will help in paying the land off and you would have the clear pasture land you want plus get the wood to build your log cabin FREE...

[ricky]

pine as fire wood is poor at best you get pennies for the wood and puplp, grind it up less than pennies. the only thing worth money in pine is lumber or logs to build with. and tell you what if the stand of pines is getting old you will loose it all to wind soon enough. wind will damage pines even standing. Pines are pines pasture is worth more if you want grass. Id trade an acre of grass for pines any day. or as mentioned cut it all in to lumber build a free and clear home sell it and buy the best of both worlds

[agmantoo]

Since I am your neighbor and I am in the tree growing business I am going to submit a different suggestion. The choice to plant white pines in your area was a mistake. White pines grow very well west of here but not in the our area. Sure you will see a specimen tree here occasionally but white pines typically die off in our area prior to maturity. You measured most likely at the base of the trees to get the diameter. A buyer will use DBH (diameter @ breast height) for his measurement. Your aerial view appears that you have a nice flat piece of property. If you want trees I suggest that you do a clear cut and replant with improved loblolly pines. Call a pulp/chip buyer in your area and ask whom thay may suggest to harvest your holding. You could have a problem getting someone due to the small number of trees. If you are planning on getting animals just include the area after the cutover in pasture. The stumps from the white pines will rot out rather quickly and the animals will prevent trash from growing. Good luck on purchasing the property next door.

[Paul Wheaton]

I would like to endorse the pine analysis here - there a better trees.

I would also like to suggest that if you are considering planting new trees, don't go with just one variety, go with lots of different varieties.

The subject of which trees to plant currently fills many books. And the things we are talking about and are trying to help you with are about a thousand times richer than we can convey in a few posts.

Pop over to your library and check out "Country Life: A Handbook for Realists and Dreamers" by Paul Heiney. It has some good suggestions for homesteading on different acreage. Plus the photography is simply beautiful.

Anything you can learn about permaculture and/or agroforestry will also be a big help.

Considering the recent posts, I would recommend that you don't cut all of the trees at once. But I do think your long term plans should eliminate 95% or more of that species of tree over the next ten years.

A few more notes:

Pine is used for almost all building and heating around here.

Pine will acidify your soil - be prepared to test the pH and add lime to your soil to encourage other things to grow.

Consider non-dwarf fruit trees in the future. Get a strong central leader and then a lot of your fruit crop will be above the heads of your future cattle (and any deer that might happen into your area).

paul wheaton
certified master gardener
certified permaculture designer

[uncle Will in In.]

Have you walked around under the trees? It will be full of dead brush, and hard to get around, but once the brush is trimmed out and cleaned up, you will have the nicest secluded place in the country. An excellent livestock shelter any time of year, or a lovely place for a picnic. Check it out before you do anything drastic.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Originally Posted by uncle Will in In.

Have you walked around under the trees? It will be full of dead brush, and hard to get around, but once the brush is trimmed out and cleaned up, you will have the nicest secluded place in the country. An excellent livestock shelter any time of year, or a lovely place for a picnic. Check it out before you do anything drastic.

No brush, someone must have cleaned it out at one point or another.

[justmyluk]

Also...think about thinning them out just enough to get e tractor thru them and bale up the pine needles. At $4 plus a bale it might bring in a few bucks every year...

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

Buy the adjacent lot and save the trees until they're larger.

The way deforestation is progressing, you are not only helping the environment by keeping the trees but are also guaranteeing a greater return on investment later--the longer you wait, the more wood you have to sell, and the higher the price you can ask per unit of wood.

Heck, if it were me I'd buy the adjacent lot, turn half to pasture, and start a new grove of trees along the back section so as to have two tree crops in progress. Would have to do some research to find out what species of tree would give the best combo of low maintenance and high return though.

The land next door is a big IF, the folks do not live nearby, I have written them a letter and waiting to hear back. If they do not bite, most of the trees will have to come out as I want to grass raise a few livestock. And even with the land next door I would only have 5 acres, not enough to dedicate much to timber with the exception of a few veneer trees. I do plan to keep some of them and plant some fruit/nut trees around the borders. There are actually more trees in NC now than there was 50 years ago, the old farms are going back to woodland. There is also some argument about a well managed pasture being able to create more O2 and sequester more CO2 than woodland.

[Highground]

Got any mills in your area that make rustic fences? When we sold our pine we got the highest price selling to a fence mill.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Originally Posted by agmantoo

Since I am your neighbor and I am in the tree growing business I am going to submit a different suggestion. The choice to plant white pines in your area was a mistake. White pines grow very well west of here but not in the our area. Sure you will see a specimen tree here occasionally but white pines typically die off in our area prior to maturity. You measured most likely at the base of the trees to get the diameter. A buyer will use DBH (diameter @ breast height) for his measurement. Your aerial view appears that you have a nice flat piece of property. If you want trees I suggest that you do a clear cut and replant with improved loblolly pines. Call a pulp/chip buyer in your area and ask whom thay may suggest to harvest your holding. You could have a problem getting someone due to the small number of trees. If you are planning on getting animals just include the area after the cutover in pasture. The stumps from the white pines will rot out rather quickly and the animals will prevent trash from growing. Good luck on purchasing the property next door.

The property is in Morganton, so it is a little further west, but like you said not the best trees, some people seem to think they will get the beetle, I am doubious. There is a bit of a hill between the timber and the house but the rest is flat. My measurements are just a guess at DBH, not base. Too bad nobody builds adobe around here they would make great vegas. Otherwise I agree with the rest.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Originally Posted by Highground

Got any mills in your area that make rustic fences? When we sold our pine we got the highest price selling to a fence mill.

White pine? I don't see it holding up very well as fence.

[haypoint]

I think they treat the white pine posts with that green wood preservitive when they use them for posts. If they are post size that might be a way to go. Also, I see semi loads of red pine and spruce going to a commercial mill, Potlatch, that makes lumber out of 8 feet long logs that have tops as small as 5 inches! So I'd be in favor of getting a portable band saw mill in to make the boards you need.
With that said: it never fails to amaze me when people buy one thing and then set about to make it something else. It looks like you've got the only stand of pines in the area, but you want pasture. In northern Michigan, I see people that leave the cities, buy a place in the woods and then cut every tree on their property and plant it to grass. I saw a guy buy a 40 acre parcel with a stone house and a huge barn. He had no interest in the barn, so he had it shoved down and burned. Six months later, he had the place up for sale. ---- shame to destroy something of value, then walk away from it. It's like they're bringing with them the exact thing they sought to escape! To someone that doesn't plan to run livestock, those trees could represent a sort of savings account instead of a liability as they are to you. So, before you go converting your woods into pasture, spend a few Sunday afternoons tooling around the area that is within your commute range. If you want pasture land you should buy it. in my area there is plenty of farm fields on the edge of reverting to brush that would make better pastures than a pine plantation. What's the soil type? If it's sandy, you might not get much grass out of it anyway. Check with your Soil Conservation Service or similar agency for soil maps and viable uses.