Where to start in our specific situation

[cindyc]

FINALLY, after a year and a half of reading and learning and waiting, we are about to be in a situation where we have BOTH the space for critters and a garden, AND the income to invest in starting our little homestead. We are about to be done paying off all of our debt! We have NO experience, though, and I don't want to take on too much at one time. On the property, we have three acres that are fenced well enough to keep in goats, a milking stand for goats, pastured chicken pens and a coop for laying hens, even a homemade washing machine "chicken picker". The back pasture was used for pigs previously. We have a nice yard to build up a good raised bed garden.

SOOOO what do you think? Can we do chickens, dairy goats, and a large garden the first year? We have done the garden and the drying and canning that goes with it for two years now. The animals would be what is new. Is a beef cow, or pigs for meat too much to do add the first year? We want to start slowly, and add skills over time, so that we can learn to do all of this well, and so we don't burn ourselves out. CHOOSING where to start is the hard part. Whaddaya think?

Dh (skwish-e) says we need milk goats, two dozen laying hens, 1 pig, and about 60 pastured chickens the first year. But he thinks that might be taking on too much, also. He still has his regular job, too. The five kids and I can help a lot, tho-

Cindyc.

[ma1bob]

Start with the laying hens. They are extremely low maintenace. Great way to get your feet wet. Then get 2 milk goats(preferably bred or already milking) nubians or La Manchas are good to start. Then go from there over the next few years. Too much, too soon and you will burn out and develope a hate for the farm and the animals.

Just my opinion. Milage may vary.

Cheers

Bob

[Pony]

You've got the gardening and canning down, so that's great!

I like the idea of starting with the poultry, then adding the furry critters a bit at a time.

I'm so happy for you, Cindy!

Pony!

[Beeman]

As others said start with the laying hens. 2 doz. is quite a few to start with, we were going thru 50lbs. of feed a week with 2 doz. hens and feed ain't getting cheaper. Start slow and don't make it something you begin to dread. I know right now you don't see how it could, but believe me you can get in deep fast and with your husband working a job it can become a drag.

[cindyc]

Originally Posted by Pony

You've got the gardening and canning down, so that's great!

I like the idea of starting with the poultry, then adding the furry critters a bit at a time.

I'm so happy for you, Cindy!

Pony!

Thank you, pony!

Cindyc.

[Terri]

I would get one type of critter, wait a couple of months, and then get another type.

When you have enough for now you will KNOW! Eventually, you will decide "I am busy enough right now".

When you have more experience things will be quicker and easier, and then you will be ready to expand again.

[cindyc]

Originally Posted by Beeman

As others said start with the laying hens. 2 doz. is quite a few to start with, we were going thru 50lbs. of feed a week with 2 doz. hens and feed ain't getting cheaper. Start slow and don't make it something you begin to dread. I know right now you don't see how it could, but believe me you can get in deep fast and with your husband working a job it can become a drag.

No, I do believe you. That is why I asked. I have been "here" long enough to see a number of people come and go. Whether they still homestead (or ever actually did), I don't know, but... Anyway... I want to start small and smart. I am pretty sure I don't have the experience to understand what that means, so I will rely pretty heavily on the advice of this board. What sounds doable to me, and what is actually realistic are probably two different things. So, thanks for the advice.

Cindyc.

[cindyc]

Originally Posted by ma1bob

Start with the laying hens. They are extremely low maintenace. Great way to get your feet wet. Then get 2 milk goats(preferably bred or already milking) nubians or La Manchas are good to start. Then go from there over the next few years. Too much, too soon and you will burn out and develope a hate for the farm and the animals.

Just my opinion. Milage may vary.

Cheers

Bob

Thanks Bob.
Cindyc.

[cindyc]

Originally Posted by Terri

I would get one type of critter, wait a couple of months, and then get another type.

When you have enough for now you will KNOW! Eventually, you will decide "I am busy enough right now".

When you have more experience things will be quicker and easier, and then you will be ready to expand again.

Yea, that seems like good advice, too. Thanks Terri. The neighbor I have now has bought a bunch of chickens, and then gone through some kind of crisis, so he is not eating them, or collecting eggs or anything... just feeding them. He went out and bagged two deer for meat, and they just had to be hauled off after laying in his yard for a number of days. He never found time to dress them. The experience has taught me that you can very easily bite off more than you can chew, and create more work, more financial drain, more stress for yourself if you are not careful. In the mean time we are reading, reading, reading...

Cindyc.

[Beeman]

It sounds like you're going in to new projects with the right attitude and you have already seen others mistakes. A project that you have a handle on can suddenly get out of control with just the smallest change. Of couse the big factors are time and money and if you ever have one you don't ever seem to have the other. None of this is cheap and very little of it saves you money or makes you money, to most it's just a hobby.

[Maura]

I think you are wise to start very small and work your way up to small. I would start with an order of chicks, Buff Orpingtons. You will get 15. These can do well for a couple of weeks in your garage, with some cross ventillation and a heat lamp (if you don't use your garage as a garage). You can start them out in a large dog crate (get the kind that folds up into a "suitcase", and it will last you for years and be out of the way when you don't need it". Then, you start bringing them outside when the weather is good, being sure that they have shade. When these are big enough to be foraging, get a second order of chicks, maybe Rhode Island Red. If things have become hectic, you can always put off ordering the second group of chicks. When the roosters start crowing, you start butchering them. If your chickens are four or more weeks apart, you won't have to do all of the butchering at once. Keep only one rooster that is not too large, healthy, and does not attack your children. Read up on breeding, or butcher all the roosters. I think your egg laying chickens will do fine in the chicken mobile, you just need to design nests into the tractor so the girls have a place to lay their eggs. Buff Orpingtons are big, and I think they make better eating than those huge white ones.

The hen house/tractor needs to be behind electric fencing. It can be in the pasture, but it needs to be behind el fencing or raccons and foxes will eat all your chickens before you get any eggs.

As for goats, you need three to make a herd. And you need really good fencing. If you can keep goats in, you can keep sheep in. They will need shade in the summer and a wind break in the winter. Get goats that have been handled and well socialized. If you have a dog, you need to start right now to have him trained well. You need to be able to call him off anything. When you first get the chicks, let him sniff the crate, but then tell him "leave it", which you have already trained him to, and reward him for leaving them alone. When you get the goats, use a long lead and teach him to "leave it". This is especially important if you plan on using the dog to herd.

Don't forget to make room for your compost pile. Have fun!

[bill not in oh]

Originally Posted by Beeman

As others said start with the laying hens. 2 doz. is quite a few to start with,

Hey Beeman - she's got 7 in her family.... If she bakes at all, and everyone in the family eats eggs, she'll probably need more than 25.. LOL

[Cheryl in SD]

Being of the jump in with both feet and figure it out later school. You guys are very smart.

How about having your kids join 4H??? They have great helps, other people who would know about livestock and some of your oldest could do one thing as a project.

Once we get settled on a bigger place, I hope to start raising meat rabbits and save the poutry for eggs. We found we just didn't care for our pastue raised chickens. They were very tough, even when we got them young.

On 3 acres, I would stick with goats. I have 1.67, of which 1 is in pasture. 7 goats will eat it to the ground. Then the free range cghickens ate the rest of the yard. At least we didn't have to mow much. Now we thinned our stock to 5 goats and are going to go to 3-4. We gotout flock to 24, and that's plenty.

This is the best way of live though! Glad you are going to begin.

[bill not in oh]

Cindy - a side note on pigs... They are really easy to raise, a bit messy, but easy. However, when you decide to do pigs, do at least 2 - they'll do much better for you. Not that you can't do a single one, they're happier and IMHO they will grow faster if they have a buddy or two to play with / compete with for food and water.

[vancom]

Heck, we lived in Nashville in spring 2005 when we started raising our first batch of chickens with a henhouse in the "way back." Moved out a few months later to what we call the "pseudo-country" and never looked back...

We have 15 hens and a rooster, and rarely have more than 3 dz. eggs in the fridge. We eat alot of eggs! But come summer, we'll have 12-13 eggs a day! We also sell to friends in the summer so that comes in handy. Chickens rank high on the easy scale--we have 3 kids and the eldest son cares for them daily. I do the weekend work of cleaning and mucking about. Our henhouse was built by us--pretty sizable, with 3 nest boxes, 6 x 10 but 8 feet high, ladders for roosting, a fenced yard (access during daylight hours) and netting to discourage the hawks. We let them roam the big yard (the "people yard") most every day to peck about, after laying time and before dark.

We are considering meat chickens in the spring but they will require seperate quarters, different feed, etc. And butchering which we are learning but have not yet tried.

So then we added 2 pregnant female goats in late 2005. They had babies and we sold one doe and her doeling to a list member, and kept the others. Added a buck this fall, and with any luck, we will have kiddings in March and April. Goats are more work--sociable, they like attention, and need feeding 2 times daily, fences and sheds, milkings, etc. But we drink and use alot of milk and I love the whole process.

We had two pigs this summer--easy but a messy area left behind! But the pork filled a freezer and we know what went into these boys! So we enjoyed it. The pigs drank the extra milk (and let me tell you, we had extra milk even with 3 children, 2 adults and a passle of goats kids!) and they adored any left-over alfalfa when the picky picky goats were done!

I'd say start with chickens, add 2 dairy goats (females, preferably pregnant), and work from there. You need good fencing, predator control, sheds and a place to store the feed. But we love it. My nearest neighbors are now TOO close and I'd move to the middle of nowhere in a heartbeat if I thought we could swing it. Our 6 acres is proving too small now!

I work all day but the kids pitch in, and DH is home to do the "fieldwork." We have about 1/2 acre +- fenced for the ladies, and a smaller paddock for the boys, but all have secure quarters. Got to say there is nothing like that first egg, and a pail of milk--you feed them and care for them and they reward you with something you can eat. How great is that?!

Vanessa
near Nashville

[cindyc]

Originally Posted by vancom

Heck, we lived in Nashville in spring 2005 when we started raising our first batch of chickens with a henhouse in the "way back." Moved out a few months later to what we call the "pseudo-country" and never looked back...

We have 15 hens and a rooster, and rarely have more than 3 dz. eggs in the fridge. We eat alot of eggs! But come summer, we'll have 12-13 eggs a day! We also sell to friends in the summer so that comes in handy. Chickens rank high on the easy scale--we have 3 kids and the eldest son cares for them daily. I do the weekend work of cleaning and mucking about. Our henhouse was built by us--pretty sizable, with 3 nest boxes, 6 x 10 but 8 feet high, ladders for roosting, a fenced yard (access during daylight hours) and netting to discourage the hawks. We let them roam the big yard (the "people yard") most every day to peck about, after laying time and before dark.

We are considering meat chickens in the spring but they will require seperate quarters, different feed, etc. And butchering which we are learning but have not yet tried.

So then we added 2 pregnant female goats in late 2005. They had babies and we sold one doe and her doeling to a list member, and kept the others. Added a buck this fall, and with any luck, we will have kiddings in March and April. Goats are more work--sociable, they like attention, and need feeding 2 times daily, fences and sheds, milkings, etc. But we drink and use alot of milk and I love the whole process.

We had two pigs this summer--easy but a messy area left behind! But the pork filled a freezer and we know what went into these boys! So we enjoyed it. The pigs drank the extra milk (and let me tell you, we had extra milk even with 3 children, 2 adults and a passle of goats kids!) and they adored any left-over alfalfa when the picky picky goats were done!

I'd say start with chickens, add 2 dairy goats (females, preferably pregnant), and work from there. You need good fencing, predator control, sheds and a place to store the feed. But we love it. My nearest neighbors are now TOO close and I'd move to the middle of nowhere in a heartbeat if I thought we could swing it. Our 6 acres is proving too small now!

I work all day but the kids pitch in, and DH is home to do the "fieldwork." We have about 1/2 acre +- fenced for the ladies, and a smaller paddock for the boys, but all have secure quarters. Got to say there is nothing like that first egg, and a pail of milk--you feed them and care for them and they reward you with something you can eat. How great is that?!

Vanessa
near Nashville

We will be in "the 'boro" Vanessa... Howdy neighbor!

Cindyc.

[goatlady]

Do keep in mind, cindy, if you are milking goats you do it TWICE a day, EVERY DAY, and preferably at the same times. No late afternoon shopping and dinners out, rain or shine, snow or hail, you milk those goats! No vacations either, not even a weekend away. Reliable milking help is VERY hard to come by at any price. BTDT and still doing it!

[cindyc]

Originally Posted by goatlady

Do keep in mind, cindy, if you are milking goats you do it TWICE a day, EVERY DAY, and preferably at the same times. No late afternoon shopping and dinners out, rain or shine, snow or hail, you milk those goats! No vacations either, not even a weekend away. Reliable milking help is VERY hard to come by at any price. BTDT and still doing it!

Well, I don't shop much, or eat out either, but I have thought seiously about those vacations. We have been known to go away for a weekend here or there, and we have been known to take a longer vacation every few years.

I have a friend who said that if we were going to be away, we could just put the kids with the mother goats, and let them eat. Is that not true? (Provided a neighbor could give them food and water, and make sure they are put up at night.)

Cindyc.

[botebum]

Originally Posted by goatlady

Do keep in mind, cindy, if you are milking goats you do it TWICE a day, EVERY DAY, and preferably at the same times. No late afternoon shopping and dinners out, rain or shine, snow or hail, you milk those goats! No vacations either, not even a weekend away. Reliable milking help is VERY hard to come by at any price. BTDT and still doing it!

Good point. One of the many reasons we aren't considering furry or milking stock. We WILL take a vacation from time to time. The islands call

Doug

[Jan Doling]

Start with bunnies and chicks....but only after you have erected tractors, coops, hutches, etc. and after you have done all the research (know what to feed them, how to deal with their specific illnesses, when they molt, how they breed, when & how to butcher, cook and store the meat). H for the kids is a great idea. Also, contact your local agriculture extension agent.