Farm Eye for the Farm Guy

[Beeman]

http://www.thislife.org/pages/descriptions/04/273.html

The NPR broadcast of This American Life had this interesting story of a person moving to a farm from the city so he could connect with nature and start an organic farm. The most interesting part is the statistics given on farms. This is worth listening to as it sounds like many that post here looking to start farming.

[Simpler Times]

Sounds interesting but how do you get to Act 1 of the Episode? I tried to access it through the free streaming option and only got the prologue about the greeter at the create your own stir fry place.

[daycab]

Fantatic link! Another timely reminder not to quit my day job yet. To access the episode, slide the progress bar over about an inch. Or better yet, listen to the whole thing, it's good!

[dcross]

Originally Posted by Simpler Times

Sounds interesting but how do you get to Act 1 of the Episode? I tried to access it through the free streaming option and only got the prologue about the greeter at the create your own stir fry place.

That's the beginning, just give it a minute.

[Jim S.]

I'll listen after I post this, but I just look at the guys who are farming THOUSANDS of acres and yet still have a "town job." Man, if they can't be self-sufficient farming at that size, I'd better keep my day job!

Plus, farming has no fringe bennies like insurance, vacation, retirement pension, etc. There's not even sick days! I have to feed, sick or not. And for the past 3 years, "vacation" from the job means working on the farm.

Man, I love manual labor. Heh. Good thing!

[Jim S.]

OK, I have listened to it now. Thanks for posting that link! Should be required for every site memebr to listen to it. LOL.

I know so many people like this, personally and online. George is a Dreamer, not a Doer. He is not task-oriented and is unwilling to apply business principles to his operation. He is working a dream, so it can never be a reality. To a Dreamer, the dream can never become reality or else it tarnishes the dream. And so he can never work to a physical goal (so many tomatoes, so much acreage planted, so much profit in a year).

He doesn't really come down to touching what his real needs are until near the end, when he sees that it is the country lifestyle, not the farming lifestyle, that he is after -- and that the two are not locked together. You can have one without the other.

To tell the truth, I have been flamed on this site before by just this kind of person, when I try to help out and play the realist role of the guy from Rodale.

I am doing everything on my place the cheapest, easiest way, always with an eye to whether it will make money, and that does not sit well with some dreamers who want an idyllic farmstead, feel there is only one "correct" way to do things (often out of a book), and are really farming as a hobby rather than as a business.

There is no way I could invest in my livestock what some do and feel comfortable that it is good for the farm balance books. No way. And to many Dreamers, that makes me wrong. Flash back to George, doing manual field veggie labor when a cheap Farmall tractor with a few attachments would have been a wise initial investment that could have made it much more efficient.

I farm my place because I like to work hard. I have made a small profit on my place through hard work. I work toward that every year. But could it alone support me? No way. I think it will when I retire and have a pension stipend, but not until then.

I drive a 1989 Nissan Stanza to work, my tractor is a 1963 M-F 50, etc. The newest thing on my place is a 2000 F150, and I bought that with proceeds from the '90s stock market boom -- not the farm. I choose this lifestyle to stay out of debt and maximize the chance for the farm to profit. I know my city coworkers think I'm nuts, driving their new BMWs. My father in law used to say, "Interest is a dead horse -- and you can't ride a dead horse." I live by that, except when it comes to buying farmland which will appreciate in value. Even then, I am cautious.

For folks who want to be mentored by someone who has indeed made a go of it, check this link out. Now I am going to tell you up front, Joel Salatin makes a living off his books and speeches, as well as the farm. And he inherited his land, so no startup costs. But this guy has, in my opinion, more of the keys to how to do it as inexpensively as possible by using the sun and carbon as your raw materials than almost anyone else I know (except for my deceased father in law, who was born on, made his entire living off, a farm).

http://www.polyfacefarms.com/

Really farming (not hobby farming) is hard manual work, and you have to have a sharp pencil. You have to be able to deny yourself toys, to say no to spending money. On January 2, I bought out my two-year partner in my livestock operation, who has always lived in the country, but found that when he confronted the reality of our partnership, he was not willing to work as hard as it takes to actually farm. It's a lot more than buying animals and waiting til they multiply and you can sell them.

On the other hand, the country lifestyle is easy to get. You could buy a 3-5 acre place on a hilltop and look down on the pastoral scene below, where a farmer toils 12-hour days to wrestle a buck out of the soil, and yet still be living a country lifestyle. This is the life my former partner is now living. He has sold the livestock he had on his own farm, and now just keeps one horse. He can go out to the bars with his friends every night now, whereas I have to come home and tend to the livestock, and spend my weekends working on stuff. We have made different lifestyle choices. I am not saying one is better than the other, but the contrast is marked.

Really farming or choosing the country lifestyle are distinct from each other, not inextricably linked. In my view, folks moving to the country save themselves a lot of headache and heartache if they choose which life they are after first. I know I wish my former partner had given that some thought before we went in together. Farming carries a lot of responsibility with it, and you have to be that type of person.

I was never so relieved as I was the day I handed the money to my former farming partner to sever our partnership. I had been doing all the work, while he got half of all the revenues. Now I sink or swim by my own effort, without the anchor he became dragging on me.

I write all this just in the off chance it might help someone who is trying to make these front-end kinds of decisions now. It's better to decide up front than to get neck-deep in a life you don't want and never bargained for. I love really farming. But it's not for everyone.

[Beeman]

I'm glad some enjoyed it, all should listen to it.
I'm an NPR addict and Ira Glass has a great show. It's a real reality check and should be the soundtrack for this forum.

[FarmboyBill]

Originally Posted by Jim S.

OK, I have listened to it now. Thanks for posting that link! Should be required for every site memebr to listen to it. LOL.

I know so many people like this, personally and online. George is a Dreamer, not a Doer. He is not task-oriented and is unwilling to apply business principles to his operation. He is working a dream, so it can never be a reality. To a Dreamer, the dream can never become reality or else it tarnishes the dream. And so he can never work to a physical goal (so many tomatoes, so much acreage planted, so much profit in a year).

He doesn't really come down to touching what his real needs are until near the end, when he sees that it is the country lifestyle, not the farming lifestyle, that he is after -- and that the two are not locked together. You can have one without the other.

To tell the truth, I have been flamed on this site before by just this kind of person, when I try to help out and play the realist role of the guy from Rodale.

I am doing everything on my place the cheapest, easiest way, always with an eye to whether it will make money, and that does not sit well with some dreamers who want an idyllic farmstead, feel there is only one "correct" way to do things (often out of a book), and are really farming as a hobby rather than as a business.

There is no way I could invest in my livestock what some do and feel comfortable that it is good for the farm balance books. No way. And to many Dreamers, that makes me wrong. Flash back to George, doing manual field veggie labor when a cheap Farmall tractor with a few attachments would have been a wise initial investment that could have made it much more efficient.

I farm my place because I like to work hard. I have made a small profit on my place through hard work. I work toward that every year. But could it alone support me? No way. I think it will when I retire and have a pension stipend, but not until then.

I drive a 1989 Nissan Stanza to work, my tractor is a 1963 M-F 50, etc. The newest thing on my place is a 2000 F150, and I bought that with proceeds from the '90s stock market boom -- not the farm. I choose this lifestyle to stay out of debt and maximize the chance for the farm to profit. I know my city coworkers think I'm nuts, driving their new BMWs. My father in law used to say, "Interest is a dead horse -- and you can't ride a dead horse." I live by that, except when it comes to buying farmland which will appreciate in value. Even then, I am cautious.

For folks who want to be mentored by someone who has indeed made a go of it, check this link out. Now I am going to tell you up front, Joel Salatin makes a living off his books and speeches, as well as the farm. And he inherited his land, so no startup costs. But this guy has, in my opinion, more of the keys to how to do it as inexpensively as possible by using the sun and carbon as your raw materials than almost anyone else I know (except for my deceased father in law, who was born on, made his entire living off, a farm).

http://www.polyfacefarms.com/

Really farming (not hobby farming) is hard manual work, and you have to have a sharp pencil. You have to be able to deny yourself toys, to say no to spending money. On January 2, I bought out my two-year partner in my livestock operation, who has always lived in the country, but found that when he confronted the reality of our partnership, he was not willing to work as hard as it takes to actually farm. It's a lot more than buying animals and waiting til they multiply and you can sell them.

On the other hand, the country lifestyle is easy to get. You could buy a 3-5 acre place on a hilltop and look down on the pastoral scene below, where a farmer toils 12-hour days to wrestle a buck out of the soil, and yet still be living a country lifestyle. This is the life my former partner is now living. He has sold the livestock he had on his own farm, and now just keeps one horse. He can go out to the bars with his friends every night now, whereas I have to come home and tend to the livestock, and spend my weekends working on stuff. We have made different lifestyle choices. I am not saying one is better than the other, but the contrast is marked.

Really farming or choosing the country lifestyle are distinct from each other, not inextricably linked. In my view, folks moving to the country save themselves a lot of headache and heartache if they choose which life they are after first. I know I wish my former partner had given that some thought before we went in together. Farming carries a lot of responsibility with it, and you have to be that type of person.

I was never so relieved as I was the day I handed the money to my former farming partner to sever our partnership. I had been doing all the work, while he got half of all the revenues. Now I sink or swim by my own effort, without the anchor he became dragging on me.

I write all this just in the off chance it might help someone who is trying to make these front-end kinds of decisions now. It's better to decide up front than to get neck-deep in a life you don't want and never bargained for. I love really farming. But it's not for everyone.

And I tried in the ST forum hopeing to find a woman who understood what you have just said, and i caught H___ for it. Most said I was too ridgid and uncareing, and unfeeling, that I wanted a slave to push and pull the plow, ect. Wish you had wrote this 2 months ago and I could have asked them to read it as a suppliment to what I was trying to say, ie as to what kind of a woman I was looking for.

[moonwolf]

Originally Posted by Jim S.

I drive a 1989 Nissan Stanza to work, my tractor is a 1963 M-F 50, etc. The newest thing on my place is a 2000 F150, and I bought that with proceeds from the '90s stock market boom -- not the farm.

A true farmer would likely invest in himself and his farm and not invest in the stock market to buy a tractor from 'proceeds from the 90's stock market boom'.
I find it difficult to get the true meaning of your point. I get some of the 'lecture' about farming, but that paragraph above really threw a loop into the 'economy' of farming from your perspective. It's easy to say to give impassioned speeches as you've done, but don't mean a whole lot.

[Ford8N]

Originally Posted by moonwolf

A true farmer would likely invest in himself and his farm and not invest in the stock market to buy a tractor from 'proceeds from the 90's stock market boom'.

I find your comment to be total BS. Just because Jim had the sense to invest wisely in the 90's now he is not a "true farmer"?

[Thoughthound]

Originally Posted by Jim S.

Really farming or choosing the country lifestyle are distinct from each other, not inextricably linked. In my view, folks moving to the country save themselves a lot of headache and heartache if they choose which life they are after first.

Amen.

[Aldeia]

Thank you for sharing that! I love the link to Pheasant Farm, too.

I didn't think the piece was so much about farming as the human penchant to dream. I think George is certain he can't do it the way he thought, and he's not asking for any handouts. He admits he's lazy for farm work. lol . I also think it's interestig how even humans who choose the urban life are often drawn to nature.

I love the Pheasant Farm article abouu how moved the little girl from the city was when she put the newly hatched brown egg to her cheek. Human seem to need that connection in some way, esp children.

[Aldeia]

Originally Posted by Thoughthound

Amen.

Humans are often a little slow. lol

In this case, no harm, no foul. Although George does stand to lose his clothing designer girlfriend, who I also liked. I thought it was a nicely presented piece.

[ibcnya]

Excellent post Jim S.. I couldn't have said it better. Right down to "wrestle a buck out of the soil" And if a farmer has livestock, you will wrestle more than dirt for a buck. And vacation? Vacations from work are for getting work done around the place.

Originally Posted by Jim S.

OK, I have listened to it now. Thanks for posting that link! Should be required for every site memebr to listen to it. LOL.

I know so many people like this, personally and online. George is a Dreamer, not a Doer. He is not task-oriented and is unwilling to apply business principles to his operation. He is working a dream, so it can never be a reality. To a Dreamer, the dream can never become reality or else it tarnishes the dream. And so he can never work to a physical goal (so many tomatoes, so much acreage planted, so much profit in a year).

He doesn't really come down to touching what his real needs are until near the end, when he sees that it is the country lifestyle, not the farming lifestyle, that he is after -- and that the two are not locked together. You can have one without the other.

To tell the truth, I have been flamed on this site before by just this kind of person, when I try to help out and play the realist role of the guy from Rodale.

I am doing everything on my place the cheapest, easiest way, always with an eye to whether it will make money, and that does not sit well with some dreamers who want an idyllic farmstead, feel there is only one "correct" way to do things (often out of a book), and are really farming as a hobby rather than as a business.

There is no way I could invest in my livestock what some do and feel comfortable that it is good for the farm balance books. No way. And to many Dreamers, that makes me wrong. Flash back to George, doing manual field veggie labor when a cheap Farmall tractor with a few attachments would have been a wise initial investment that could have made it much more efficient.

I farm my place because I like to work hard. I have made a small profit on my place through hard work. I work toward that every year. But could it alone support me? No way. I think it will when I retire and have a pension stipend, but not until then.

I drive a 1989 Nissan Stanza to work, my tractor is a 1963 M-F 50, etc. The newest thing on my place is a 2000 F150, and I bought that with proceeds from the '90s stock market boom -- not the farm. I choose this lifestyle to stay out of debt and maximize the chance for the farm to profit. I know my city coworkers think I'm nuts, driving their new BMWs. My father in law used to say, "Interest is a dead horse -- and you can't ride a dead horse." I live by that, except when it comes to buying farmland which will appreciate in value. Even then, I am cautious.

For folks who want to be mentored by someone who has indeed made a go of it, check this link out. Now I am going to tell you up front, Joel Salatin makes a living off his books and speeches, as well as the farm. And he inherited his land, so no startup costs. But this guy has, in my opinion, more of the keys to how to do it as inexpensively as possible by using the sun and carbon as your raw materials than almost anyone else I know (except for my deceased father in law, who was born on, made his entire living off, a farm).

http://www.polyfacefarms.com/

Really farming (not hobby farming) is hard manual work, and you have to have a sharp pencil. You have to be able to deny yourself toys, to say no to spending money. On January 2, I bought out my two-year partner in my livestock operation, who has always lived in the country, but found that when he confronted the reality of our partnership, he was not willing to work as hard as it takes to actually farm. It's a lot more than buying animals and waiting til they multiply and you can sell them.

On the other hand, the country lifestyle is easy to get. You could buy a 3-5 acre place on a hilltop and look down on the pastoral scene below, where a farmer toils 12-hour days to wrestle a buck out of the soil, and yet still be living a country lifestyle. This is the life my former partner is now living. He has sold the livestock he had on his own farm, and now just keeps one horse. He can go out to the bars with his friends every night now, whereas I have to come home and tend to the livestock, and spend my weekends working on stuff. We have made different lifestyle choices. I am not saying one is better than the other, but the contrast is marked.

Really farming or choosing the country lifestyle are distinct from each other, not inextricably linked. In my view, folks moving to the country save themselves a lot of headache and heartache if they choose which life they are after first. I know I wish my former partner had given that some thought before we went in together. Farming carries a lot of responsibility with it, and you have to be that type of person.

I was never so relieved as I was the day I handed the money to my former farming partner to sever our partnership. I had been doing all the work, while he got half of all the revenues. Now I sink or swim by my own effort, without the anchor he became dragging on me.

I write all this just in the off chance it might help someone who is trying to make these front-end kinds of decisions now. It's better to decide up front than to get neck-deep in a life you don't want and never bargained for. I love really farming. But it's not for everyone.

[highlands]

Originally Posted by Jim S.

I'll listen after I post this, but I just look at the guys who are farming THOUSANDS of acres and yet still have a "town job." Man, if they can't be self-sufficient farming at that size, I'd better keep my day job!

Ah... You've got that one backwards. They are farming thousands of acres with big-iron as it is affectionately called. Big toys cost big bucks. Then they hire people to do the work. That comes off the top. Before you know it you're paying everything to other people including the banks.

Small is better. We do it with no "town job".

Cheers,

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/