Fuel Storage

[bare]

I've always wanted to have more fuel on hand here but been reluctant because of the threat of wildfire. Ideally, I could have a five hundred gallon tank on stilts and order delivery, but other than the obvious problem with fire safety, they are theft magnets.

Got to thinking of a dedicated trailer that I could hook to in case of fire and pull to safety when it dawned on me that I have a two horse trailer that I've had trouble licensing since it never did have a title.

It's a stout little thing and I imagine I could put at least several hundred gallons of gasoline in barrels, kerosene and diesel. A couple of the generators could be rolled in there and be out of sight and under cover.

So, what do you think about a bugout fuel depot? Am I missing anything here?

[anniew]

What do you need that much fuel for? Knowing what the intended purpose might be would give people a better idea of how to answer your question. Ann

[Rockin'B]

I have a 300 gallon gasoline tank on my property. My tractor is a gas tractor. It's on a stand and is gravity operated. Are you in a location that is prone to fires? If not, I'm not sure I understand the concern.

[Shadow]

Y2K we really got into the survival mode, and fuel was a high pirioty on the list. We built a seperate building 1000 ft away from anything else, all metal, special ventalation to keep fumes from building up.
After new year 2000 we started using the fuel went fine for a while then lost a fuel pump on one of the vehicles water, moisture ruined a $350 fuel pump, after that we dispoised of the rest.
If you have a fire and the fire department finds out or happens to know about stored fuel not in commercial storage facitilies they will just back off and let it burn.
You have no insurance that will cover any damage from or connected to damage caused or thought to be caused by storage or more than a certain amount of fuel.
Say your house, barn burns and you have more than recommended srored you will not be rebuilt with insurance, but you will still owe the bank or morgage.
Forget it fuel additives and everything it just is not a good idea. Diesel will last longest but have plenty of extra filters that will filter out problems and use it with in 12 months, gas 6 months is pushing it.
Just our experience and after spending thousands trying it and doing all the involved research.

[Jennifer L.]

I don't see the problem. I've got a 300 gal tank for gas and a 175 for diesel. No problems. I just keep them locked in the summertime since anyone who pulls in the driveway could see them.

[bare]

anniew...That doesn't seem like that much fuel in an extended service disruption, whether to run generators, vehicles, kerosene for lamps.

Rockin'B...If I wasn't concerned about fire, it wouldn't be an issue. I'm surrounded by National Forest Service land. Fire happens.

Shadow...Stabil will keep gasoline fresh for two years. I've used it for years, but for gas storage in five gallon cans and never had a problem using it up. Though I am a subscriber to two volunteer fire departments, they are both a long ways off, likely an hour, assuming they weren't busy elsewhere. The whole idea behind portable fuel storage though is to be able to pull it out of harms way in case of fire, not leave it to be a potential problem.

[edcopp]

The concept is fine. some things are missing. License plates is one. You can probably work that one out, and thieft seems to be the other. Seems like these guys work 24/7 day and night. You might need a guard while you sleep.

Would a tank in the ground survive a fire?

[bare]

No plates is a concern in everyday situations, but in case of emergency, I doubt anyone is going to be giving me any trouble.

I did consider an underground tank Ed, but imagine it to be illegal without going through a bunch of hoops. Then there is the matter of pumping it out, while I can gravity out of barrels into my fuel tanks.

I'm considering the theft angle too. While a tank on stilts is a pretty obvious target, I don't know how many thieves would take the time to investigate a old horse trailer for something inside.

[DaleK]

We have 2 500 gallon diesel tanks and a 500 gallon gas tank. Electric pumps so we just keep the caps locked and lockout the power, although we use 70-100 gallons of diesel a day in the spring and fall anyway so they cycle through pretty fast. You might want to consider where you're going to get it, getting several hundred gallons a few jugs at a time at the gas station can be tiresome and the bulk trucks have rules about what they can offload into.

[Rockin'B]

Originally Posted by bare

a

Rockin'B...If I wasn't concerned about fire, it wouldn't be an issue. I'm surrounded by National Forest Service land. Fire happens.

Ok, I understand that.

I'd say your plan makes sense if you have time to grab that and all of the other important things of value in the house.

Personal papers and family pictures etc...

[ET1 SS]

I would lean towards in in-ground root cellar, with 55-gallon drums in it. No big structure to attract anyone's attention. A ravine or trench dug in the ground with poles over it for a roof and a layer of dirt.

Fire proof, theft proof, ...

If you kept one barrel on the back of you pickup [so nobody knows that you even have more than one], than you can transfer the fuel via a hose into the barrels that are hidden. Once they are all filled, always use the oldest fuel, and just keep that one barrel in your pickup. Around here folks keep a barrel in their truck, and nobody thinks twice about it.

[TechGuy]

Originally Posted by bare

anniew...That doesn't seem like that much fuel in an extended service disruption, whether to run generators, vehicles, kerosene for lamps.

If you haven't already looked into yet. Look up "Gasification". Vehicles, generators and other equipment can be powered using a gasifier to enable you to use wood or other solid fuels for engines. However, you would need to stock up on is lubercants, and spare parts. A Finite supply of fuel is still finite. What do you do when your stock pile is eventually consumed? You need to develop a sustainable plan.

FWIW: ET1 SS plan is probably the best option. If your concered about refueling a $50 Hand operated Drum pump can be used to pump fuel into a 5 or 10 gallon fuel storage tank, which could be used to refuel a vehicle, generator, etc.

[anniew]

I wondered what you were planning on using the fuel for so that other ideas could be offered. Using a big tractor in a SHTF scenario may not be the most efficient use of resources unless you were doing it commercially. And like someone else said, any amount of stored fuel is a finite amount, so alternatives should still be considered.
I know I'd use mine in a long term situation only for pumping water (maybe twice a week) until I could come up with a better way of getting it. Stocked fuel would merely buy you time, but not be an indefinite solution.
Ann

[ET1 SS]

I also do not like the idea of trying to operate a vehicle with 1 tonne, 5 tonnes, or more of fuel.

Moving one barrel in a vehicle, and then never actually having to man-handle that barrel seems a lot easier to me.

[bare]

I can purchase and haul 55 gallon barrels from our local fuel supplier so access isn't a problem.

I already have a barrel handler that works like a hand cart and tips up to a horizontal position for dispensing, as well as a hand operated piston pump. I used to be pretty good at siphoning too, though I haven't had to resort to that in awhile. I full barrel weighs about 450 pounds, so even four of them would weigh less than a couple horses, and it pulls well with them.

I realize that a few hundred gallons of fuel isn't a forever solution, but having it on hand would provide a great deal of comfort to me and put me in better shape to weather a disruption of any kind, than 99.9% of other folks I know. That, and I doubt gasoline is ever going to get any cheaper, so in a way, it would be a temporary hedge against inflation.

[ET1 SS]

We have a source near us, where I can get 55-gallon drums free.

The kind with a locking lid, the kind with two threaded plugs on one end, and the kind that is made of cardboard with a wax lining.

It is a local twinky factory. Their loading dock throws away two or three dozen assorted kinds of drums each week.

[e.alleg]

Wouldn't it be better to spend the money on a windmill powered water pump or a propane generator? Propane lasts indefinitely safely in 500 gallon tanks that nobody will ever steal and delivery is no problem at all. All the stabil in the world isn't going to make your gas last longer than a year or 2.

[electronrider]

The more I think about it, the more I like your horse trailer Idea. You could take 2 500 gallon tanks and have them mounted inside the trailer, with some framework around them so you can use the rest of the space in the trailer for other critical items of your choice. As long as you, your vehicle, and the trailer can all handle the extra weight on the road, then you are sitting awfully nice for any situation that requires you to go mobile. Heck, 2 tanks, a nice medium sized genny, a smaller genny for light duty, and about 500 feet of electrical connections of proper guage, and you would be set for both power and fuel. The possibilities are endless on how you could configure the inside of that trailer. Also, you could make a docking station for the hitch, say a good sized pipe filled with concrete, with a ball on top, and connect your trailer to it with a lock or two for added security. Good luck, and keep us up on what you decide please?

[bare]

Everybody's situation is a little different. I'm fortunate to have gravity water, so no need for a windmill. Don't have enough wind here anyway.

Propane is an alternative. I already cook with propane but I would have to convert three various sized generators and various vehicles to propane and propane just doesn't give the same bang for the buck that gasoline does. Besides, propane tanks are almost as problematic in a wildfire situation, you can't haul them to safety.

I'm only taking about a couple hundred gallons of gasoline, and a barrel of #1 diesel to burn in lamps and other various uses. A couple hundred gallons of gas wouldn't be all that hard to rotate through here occasionally.

I like the docking station idea, but mostly because it's a single axle trailer and I don't know how to keep the thing from tipping forward and back without it being anchored to a vehicle or something else, but as far as someone else hooking up and taking off with it, I usually just lock an extra ball in the hitch to prevent casual theft.

This isn't all that big a trailer, I think about 6 or 7 feet of floor space then an area for feed and the horses' heads. It also has two doors on the front for extra feed space underneath.

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna do it come spring. It seems to be a better use than as a garbage trailer. I was just hoping to pick your collective minds for potential drawbacks.

[hoofinitnorth]

If you are really going to tow this thing you might need to have some sort of tank baffles to keep the fuel from sloshing around inside too much? Not sure though.

More importantly, what about the safety & legality of pulling it fully loaded without some special licensing?