buying sawmills

[Betho]

So I'm looking into what it would cost,. etc to get a sawmill. Our plans are to eventually have at least 4 houses on the subdivided property and so We are looking into a sawmill. DH used to work as a salesman for a woodworking company and so we're gonna talk to the owner when we can about possibly getting a deal on one.

With the lumber or logs for 4 houses, I imagine it would pay for itself, but are there other ways of making them pay for themselves? Is this the kind of thing that would be a good bartering tool or a way to make money in a homesteading community?

Besides the initial cost of the mill, what else would I need to anticipate? I imagine gas, we're already planning on getting a small tractor, what else?

Thanks for the info!

[MELOC]

you could always sell custom milling service on-site. charge by the board foot.

http://www.yankee-equipment.com/used...lequipment.htm

http://www.sawmill-exchange.com/

[affenpinschermom]

A few years ago we bought a Peterson Swingblade saw mill. We really like it. It really is easy to use and does a great job. We try to cut down our trees late fall and early winter, pull them out with the horses until we have enough to mill and set the mill up late winter. We try to have our lumber milled before the weather gets warm.
We have been cutting lumber to build another house on this property, framing, cabinets, flooring, etc. We think it was a good investment.

[Fire-Man]

Originally Posted by Betho

So I'm looking into what it would cost,. etc to get a sawmill. Our plans are to eventually have at least 4 houses on the subdivided property and so We are looking into a sawmill. DH used to work as a salesman for a woodworking company and so we're gonna talk to the owner when we can about possibly getting a deal on one.

With the lumber or logs for 4 houses, I imagine it would pay for itself, but are there other ways of making them pay for themselves? Is this the kind of thing that would be a good bartering tool or a way to make money in a homesteading community?

Besides the initial cost of the mill, what else would I need to anticipate? I imagine gas, we're already planning on getting a small tractor, what else?

Thanks for the info!

I Bought a used Wood-Mizer to do about the same thing as you are planning. My Plans were to use it to do what I needed---then re-sale it. I am not sure I will sell it any time soon. I like being able to saw what I Need when I need it. I have made some money with it since I have owned it, but I have to many other things going to get in the business of sawing for people, but I do saw for a few---but only small jobs. There is some up-keep to the saw mill----the motor is the biggest single item to replace, but should last along time if you buy a new one, plus you will either have to buy a sharpner for the blades or have to find a place that can sharpen them for you even if it means mailing/shipping them. If I were you and I Planned to go into the sawing business, I would make sure I bought a Nice machine with hydraulics for loading the logs and turning them. Randy

[FarmboyBill]

When I worked at a sawmill, it used a big cat engine. Ive seen mills ran by steam engine, and it made it bark 1/2 way through a log. A mill near home used a 30some hp Wallas tractior to run it. Another, run by relation, was run by a BIG Twin City. A mill needs big horsepower, to run it, and to haul logs.

[TNHermit]

Having lived in Colorado and been to Loveland a few times. What kind of timber do you have. As I remember its mostly lodgepole pine. But your situation could be different. It wouldn't make sense to buy a mill if you don't have the timber.

[TnAndy]

You can do exactly as Fireman said.....get a good used Woodmizer or even a new one.
I bought mine new back in 1991 for about 14,000.....and the same model isn't much more today.....I got the manual LT40. I would disagree about the need for the hydraulics....they are fine if you plan to saw a LOT, or if you plan to take the mill 'on the road' to custom saw for others....if not, the manual mill is thousands less, has less maintenance and things TO break..... and has worked just fine for me.

Simply limit your log size to 16-18" or less, and you have no problem turning by hand peavy, and as to loading, design your mill location so it sits slightly below grade ( with a shed over ) and the logs come in at ground level.....so the loader isn't needed. Most folks timber doesn't run much over that size anyway.

I built my house, a huge shop, several barns, several sheds and 3 rental houses all off timber cut off my own place. You can produce framing lumber ( assuming you have a good tree species for it ) for 5 cents a board ft....and get better lumber than you can buy for 60-80cents a foot at a lumber yard.

You have to plan in advance enough to allow 6mo to a year of air drying for your lumber, so don't be in a big hurry.

Tractor should be at least a mid 30hp range and 4x4 with a front loader ( forks ) simply to handle lumber and slab waste easily......though I did mine for many years with a smaller tractor (22hp) and only a set of forks for the back lift.

[FoxfireWoman]

We purchased an Hudson Forestry Oscar 36 in Nov 05 and absolutley love it. We bought it to do some remodeling after we figured the costs of lumber and decided at about 7 grand, we'd come out ahead. I agree with the other's hydrolics are not necessary unless you plan to purchase a mobile unit - otherwise you can place the mill downhill from your 'log yard' and let gravity do the heavy work. Better half uses a hookeroon on the smaller logs and a cant hook for the really big stuff (20 inches or better) to turn them on the track.

We've documented most of our experience on my website http://www.backwoodsliving.com. Just click on the projects link on the home page and you'll find The Sawmill Project from there.

If you have any questions, feel free to email me - my addy's on the site or you can PM me here.

Best
Kat

[Betho]

Originally Posted by TNHermit

Having lived in Colorado and been to Loveland a few times. What kind of timber do you have. As I remember its mostly lodgepole pine. But your situation could be different. It wouldn't make sense to buy a mill if you don't have the timber.

Oh we're actually talking about Washington state, will be moving there in March.

[just_sawing]

What you want to do is sound and has a future. Here are some things to think about. A 2 bedroom stick hose takes 10 thousand feet of lumber. If I was there I would charge around a 2000 dollars to come and saw it. You then are done and buildind. Not everyone can have the expense setting there.
I love my mill and enjoy the people that I meet. If I didn't have a bussiness or bocou acres and time I would hire it done. PM me with any questions if I can help.

[Betho]

Oh that's great to hear. I think this could work out pretty well, if anything just for the 4 houses we plan to build (and outbuildings, probably at least a good size barn, etc) but then after that's done... hmm. This has definitely been food for thought.

[Hoop]

The very first thing you want to do is insure that the state of Colorado doesn't require stamped (graded) lumber to be used for framing.
For better or worse, more & more states require the use of stamped (graded) lumber when it will be used for framing purposes.

Wisconsin enacted the regulation requiring graded lumber in 2005. As you might guess, the owner of small sawmills were not a happy lot. A sizeable share of their market was eliminated with the stroke of a pen at the statehouse.

I'll also say that one should check with others in your proximity to see how well things work out in your area. What works great in one state doesn't work at all in another.
Here in Northern Wisconsin, it takes 2 to 3 years for 1" stock and 3 to 4 years for 2" stock to air dry lumber to where the pitch is set. Thats a lot of time and IMHO, hardly worthwhile.
Many others have stated lumber will air dry in less than a year. It undoubtedly will air dry in less than a year IN THERE LOCATION. Obviously, these are much warmer climates than northern Wisconsin.
Check with people in your area that have actually used rough cut lumber for building purposes and see how long drying time actually is IN YOUR LOCATION.

I wish you the very best.

[Ken Scharabok]

I only know of the experience of Robert & Yvonne Hardy in Gentryville, IN. They purchase what I am pretty sure is a Woodmizer and within three years had not only paid off their mortgage, but all of their other debts. However, they do have a couple of advantages:

- Robert is probably one of the hardest working men I have ever met.

- A neighbor is in the tree trimming business and brings him all of what he cuts off of property worth sawing up for free (although Robert does force him to take some payment).

- Another neighbor had the capability to sharpen the blades.

- He has a contract with a couple of trucking companies to make rolled steel blocks (including a rubber mat for each). This is their biggie income source.

- He does a lot of bartering. For example he now tosses side slabs and culls into a dump trailer, which he normally either gives away for free (for the goodwill) or uses it as barter.

They now have two of them, one is their main cutter (with hydraulics) and the other is used to cut off one corner of the rolled steel blocks.

[Jolly]

Some thoughts....

1. I hope you like to work. Sawmill work is physically demanding, and can be dangerous if you don't pay atention to safety.

2. There are other bandsaw mills besides Woodmiser, check out the Forrestry Forum (google them up), and they have an entire section devoted to small mills. Whatever you choose, keep in mind point #3.

3. When doing custom sawing for the public, you can do one of two things: A)keep the mill stationary and have people bring their logs to you, or B)take your mill to where the work is. There are advantages to both, but I'd rather keep my mill at home, under a shed, and use a log loading rack, with either a tractor or a truck with a gin pole.

4. Think value added. Many of the small mill operators down here also offer some other services. Solar kilns have recently become pretty popular to offer a kiln dried product, especially to the cabinet makers and the woodworking hobby guys.

5. Think outside of the box. Overworn expression, I know...but I also know a gentleman with a bandsaw mill that gets cast-offs for free from a local big hardwood mill. The reason he gets the logs for free is because the metal scanner has pinged off on them, and the big boys don't want to take the time to hunt the metal. So he takes a metal detector, finds the area, cuts it out, and works around it.

The biggest problem he has, is logs that are too big for his mill. He solved the problem by getting a Stihl with a long blade, setting up an Alaskan mill apparatus on the log, and cutting a slab or two off until the cant will fit his mill. He'll then go back and saw the slabs.

Another gentleman I know is a contractor, who does most of his sawing on the weekends. He bought a used bandsaw mill, uses it to saw lumber from logs taken off of property he bought. He then air dries the lumber in his barn, 1 year per inch of thickness. The lumber is then used for custom cabinets and millwork in houses he builds. He makes a killing off of this stuff, and offers a product others often cannot duplicate...when was the last time you saw custom-built solid ash cabinets in a modest (1600 sqft) house, for just a few nickels more than the MDF stuff from the Borg?

[fantasymaker]

Originally Posted by FarmBoyBill

When I worked at a sawmill, it used a big cat engine. Ive seen mills ran by steam engine, and it made it bark 1/2 way through a log. A mill near home used a 30some hp Wallas tractior to run it. Another, run by relation, was run by a BIG Twin City. A mill needs big horsepower, to run it, and to haul logs.

The thing is you are talking of high production comercial sawmaills. Not the smaller bandsaw mills.
Ive seen mills run off a small 4 hp briggs and straton it was like watching paint dry but it worked fine BUT SLOW.
Besides I think she was talking about for moving the logs. One thing to remeber there is you can move a lot more with the hitch end of the tractor than a loader on the front. A bale mover cut short and a hydralic cylinder in place of the third link does wonders.

[CatsPaw]

Sawmills are for people who want to become sawyers. Woodmizers are worn out when sold used, or, the original purchasers found out that the "I'll buy one, use it and make some side money and get my lumber for cheap" didn't work. Because it's alot of work.

With that said, I would have you check out Hudson sawmills. They make an 18" bandsaw mill for $2600. Of course that's with an 8' bed. All the other goodies, of course, are extra. But, I personally would LUV to get one of them. Get a band mill, not a chainsaw mill.

You'll be sorry if you slab up your lumber and just start building. Really need to consider a solar kiln. Basically a box that gets hot in the sun. Yes, there's all the cutesy stuff about humidity and ventilation and special louvers and channels and.....crap.........bottom line is you build a box that gets hot in the sun, vents at the top and bottom and a ton of stickers and your wood will dry fairly quickly in the average climate.

As to whether it will pay for itself, it depends on whether you're felling your own trees. If you are, cut them now while the sap's down. get'em debarked. and get them covered without sealing them up. Getting a sawmill that's portable will save you from having to invest in more equipment to shuffle your trees (trailers, tractors, etc.). If you can take the mill to the tree and saw it up, it'll be easier to throw it in the back of a truck to get it to the kiln. Otherwise you'll have to get something that will get the trees to the mill....danger, tractors flipping over, widowmakers, etc.

Most of the stories I hear about mills around here are the money losing ones. And this area has alot of local milling, sawing, felling, etc.

[Wendy]

I don't personally have a sawmill, but my dad & 2 brothers have 2 Wood-Mizers & have been in business for years making mostly pallet stuff. They do some custom sawing, but make their money doing the pallet lumber. They have also cut the lumber for the last 4 houses that were built by my brothers. They do a great job with not a lot of waste. Besides I have 2 brothers that work at Wood-Mizer. One of them welds & the other one cuts the parts on the laser.

[Ramblin Wreck]

My brother has had his Wood Mizer since September of 1999 and has had very good luck with it. His has all the hydraulics, but like others pointed out, sawmilling takes some effort. That being said, I enjoy helping him every chance I get. Becoming a good sawyer takes time, and he and I sometimes argue (in a good way) how best to tackle certain logs.

[Paul Wheaton]

I bought a $13,000 peterson "all terrain" mill. My plan was to not skid the logs. Instead, take the mill to the dropped log, cut it up and pack out the boards. A two person operation.

I have to tell you that the components for this mill were heavy!

The mill and I have parted ways due to dee-vorce.

But now I'm getting all tasted up because peterson has something that seems downright dreamy. See http://skillmill.com/

They sell these for $3,900 (USD)!!!! They look much lighter and simpler. Since they are electric, they could be run off of a bunch of batteries or off of a generator. Personally, I would gladly trade a cord for moving the exhaust away from me.

I haven't tried one of these yet, but I am looking forward to seeing a demo!!!

[just_sawing]

Originally Posted by CatsPaw[COLOR=DarkOrange

]Sawmills are for people who want to become sawyers. Woodmizers are worn out when sold used, or, the original purchasers found out that the "I'll buy one, use it and make some side money and get my lumber for cheap" didn't work. Because it's alot of work.[/COLOR]
With that said, I would have you check out Hudson sawmills. They make an 18" bandsaw mill for $2600. Of course that's with an 8' bed. All the other goodies, of course, are extra. But, I personally would LUV to get one of them. Get a band mill, not a chainsaw mill.

You'll be sorry if you slab up your lumber and just start building. Really need to consider a solar kiln. Basically a box that gets hot in the sun. Yes, there's all the cutesy stuff about humidity and ventilation and special louvers and channels and.....crap.........bottom line is you build a box that gets hot in the sun, vents at the top and bottom and a ton of stickers and your wood will dry fairly quickly in the average climate.

As to whether it will pay for itself, it depends on whether you're felling your own trees. If you are, cut them now while the sap's down. get'em debarked. and get them covered without sealing them up. Getting a sawmill that's portable will save you from having to invest in more equipment to shuffle your trees (trailers, tractors, etc.). If you can take the mill to the tree and saw it up, it'll be easier to throw it in the back of a truck to get it to the kiln. Otherwise you'll have to get something that will get the trees to the mill....danger, tractors flipping over, widowmakers, etc.

Most of the stories I hear about mills around here are the money losing ones. And this area has alot of local milling, sawing, felling, etc.

I have been running band mills for the last fourteen years as a side line. I have paid for three mills built a business and if my company does a early retirment it will be the reason that I can retire while others can't.
Woodmizers don't wear out any worse than others in fact of all the companies that I have ever dealt with Woodmizer is the best as a company. Any business takes planning and for thought. If you think that you are going to make it because you have a good idea your wrong. A business makes it because you do what every you do better.