Another Insulation Question

[hippyleft]

I have an old farm house that I am working on. The problem is that the house is cold and drafty. I had one wall apart and when the guy insulated it before me he didn't do it correctly. He just jammed it into the wall space with out stapling or pulling the paper wings out. The house has vinyl siding over old clapboard siding without insulation board or tyvak. Do you think blowing insulation in the outside walls would work or do you think I should take all the drywall off the outside walls and start over or take the siding off and put board and tyvak on ? Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Make sure you get the vapor barrier right. Make sure you get the vapor barrier right. Make sure you get the vapor barrier right. Make sure you get the vapor barrier right.

If you don't the place will rot in a month, or less...(speaking from experience here)

[mtman]

we stripped the walls then insulated good thing we did .a lot of studs were rotted. then we stripped the outside new sheeting tyvek windows and doors then resided very cozy now but we had to open the walls anyhow to do elec tric and plumbing

[mtman]

Originally Posted by Matthew Lindsay

Make sure you get the vapor barrier right. Make sure you get the vapor barrier right. Make sure you get the vapor barrier right. Make sure you get the vapor barrier right.

If you don't the place will rot in a month, or less...(speaking from experience here)

what are you talking about

[The Paw]

Blown in insulation would be good if you had empty wall cavities, but if it is just poorly installed fiberglass bats, then blowing in probably wouldn't work.

Opening up all the walls from either the inside or outside is a ton of work. Replacing the clapboards with new sheathing would also increase cost. That approach will get the best results, but it is a larger commitment. Given that the walls are already insulated, just not great installation I am not sure the improved performance would justify all the work and cost.

If you could take the vinyl siding off carefully and re-use it, then it might be worth doing that and replacing the clapboards with rigid styrofoam insulation. That would add R-value, and the rigid would probably make the housewrap unnecessary. It might be worth looking into....

[Boleyz]

You got 2 options:

1. If there is no insulation between the studs, you can cut a hole near the top between each stud and blow each cavity full, then spackle the piece back in, sand it smooth and paint.

2. You can remove the drywall inside and put in fiberglass bats and then hang drywall and finish it and paint it.

Stapling and pulling out the wings is not really necessary, provided the walls aren't leaking in moisture which has caused the bats to become heavy and sag down in the cavity.

I'd say your drafts are more likely coming from poorly fitting old windows and doors. That's where I'd start..with a tube of caulk.

Also, most heat loss in any house is through the roof. Next time you get a heavy frost or a light snow, go out early and see if the frost or snow is laying on your roof. If it's not, it's because the heat is coming through the roof fast enough to melt it.

Blow insulation in the attic.

[mtman]

blowing in from the top works unless you have braces cats or fire stops what ever you want to call them
they are inbetween the studs

[stanb999]

I will tell you what I did. The situations are close but I needed new siding. The siding in it's self is really not that expensive you can get it for about 45 a square if you go with white. Better if you can save some which you should be able to do; probably most of it.

As was said in an earlier post the windows and doors are the biggest air leaks.
So I also did that.
I went out and bought 1 1/2 inch tuff-R and covered the whole exterior except around the windows where I fastened 2x6 as a nailer to hold the new windows. Then over the whole thing again with 1/2 inch tuff-r to stagger the joints and cover the 2x6. Then I put new windows and doors. If you put new windows or doors. Make sure you use the new style flashing tape, It works great. Over this I put the vinyl. The house now has a r value of 13 before the walls and NO drafts. I also went to the lowes and "rented" the blow in machine. They give it to you for 24 hrs if you buy 20 bags of insulation. I put it all in the attic. It was less than 200 bucks for an r45+.
This cost me about 3500.00 for the materials. I did all the work myself.
This was a lot of work but the house stays warm (65 in the morning) all night with just the wood stove even on the coldest nights.

[ET1 SS]

Originally Posted by hippyleft

... problem is that the house is cold and drafty. ...

Drafty?

You do not have a 'vapor barrier'.

No matter what you do, it will not help until you get a vapor barrier.

[mondakkid]

Hi.....I have read all of the replies. I used to insulate houses for part-time income for many years. If you have fiberglass insulation already in the walls and is sagging in areas. To blow in insulation will require some skills. I see many of the readers were using the old system of doing the walls by drilling a hole on top of the wall and blowing the insulation in. I found that a better system is drilling the hole approx 1 ft up from the center. I would if possible take a row of siding off. That way you do not have to worry about fixing the hole. Either drill a 1 1/2 or 2 in. hole. If you use a reducer at the end of your insulation hose and use a 4 to 5 ft flexable hose. That works best. First push the hose down the wall and fill up to the center and then push the hose up the wall to the top and start filling. Pull the hose out as the wall is filling. You will end up with a high density fill, which you will not get if you just blow in at a hole on top. By using a hose you can tell if the wall is empty and/or if the batts that have fallen down. I was able to push the hose between the wall and the insulation in some jobs if there was some kind of backing on the insulation. Good Luck..jerry

[ET1 SS]

sagging fiberglass batts, blow in lose fill, yeah yeah.

The poster was talking about drafts!

If air is blowing through the walls, from the outside into the interior of the house.

You can put all of the blown-in junk you want to into those walls, the wind will still blow through the walls. They will still have a drafty house.

Even filling the voids with Styrofoam, will seal the void spaces, but if any studs have rotted, then the wind will blow through them.

If not the studs will thermal-conduct cold right into the house.

Vapour barrier.

Around here for stick houses, they wrap tyvek around the entire outside of a house. heat shrink it tight and then begin hanging siding.

[The Paw]

Originally Posted by ET1 SS

sagging fiberglass batts, blow in lose fill, yeah yeah.

The poster was talking about drafts!

If air is blowing through the walls, from the outside into the interior of the house.

You can put all of the blown-in junk you want to into those walls, the wind will still blow through the walls. They will still have a drafty house.

Even filling the voids with Styrofoam, will seal the void spaces, but if any studs have rotted, then the wind will blow through them.

If not the studs will thermal-conduct cold right into the house.

Vapour barrier.

Around here for stick houses, they wrap tyvek around the entire outside of a house. heat shrink it tight and then begin hanging siding.

Make sure that you mention the difference between Tyvek housewrap and vapour barrier. Vapour barrier is poly that will not allow moisture or air movement, and has to go on the inside (warm side of the wall). Tyvek is a housewrap that goes on the the outside and prevents air from blowing in, but "breathes", allowing moisture to make its way out of the wall.

If you put a moisture barrier on the exterior of the house, it will trap moisture in your walls, causing rot and reducing effectiveness of insulation. Both moisture barriers and housewrap are good ideas, just don't get them confuseed...

Also, I wouldn't use Styrofoam in the wall cavities but would run the rigid Styrofoam across the wall studs on the exterior. this keeps the studs from doing the thermal bridging, and the rigid adds to the R value rather than just replacing the batts.

[tiogacounty]

There are folks here that do not understand the difference between a vapor barrier and an air barrier. This situation is far more complicated than just recommending one solution, such as attempting to blow insulation in the walls or somehow adding a vapor barrier. The recommendation to pile a few layer of foam on the outside of a home, then reside can be a good idea, or an unbelievable disaster. Foam will trap moisture if it is improperly installed. There have been massive disasters in the use of foam with the synthetic stucco systems, and other disasters when foam sheathing is used under siding. In my personal experience, I had built a new home and added 1/2" blue Dow styofoam to the exterior, over the plywood sheathing. The windows were defective and allowed water to penetrate the sills and enter the wall behind the foam. The foam prevented the wall from drying properly and the house had tens of thousands of dollars in structural damage. Within seven years, the front wall of the two story home was rotted and sagging. The garage of the structure had the same windows, the same leaks, no foam, and no damage. The wall was able to dry properly. It is very difficult to install exterior foam, then apply housewrap in a manner that is guaranteed to be 100% watertight. If it isn't done correctly, the rot may start immediately. I have since been involved with several homes that had major damage that was caused by the use of exterior foam sheathing. In one case I know of an entire neighborhood in the northern plains where the houses were sheathed with 1" blueboard. The houses are completely infested with mice. They have excavated trails into the foam board, allowing them to travel undetected, from the bottom of the siding to the attic . They gather food in the neighboring fields, migrate up the foam channels and nest in the blown in attic insulation. Others certainly will disagree, but based on some ugly situations I have encountered, I don't believe that ANY type of foam sheathing has any business being nailed to the exterior of a building.

[ET1 SS]

Originally Posted by tiogacounty

... I don't believe that ANY type of foam sheathing has any business being nailed to the exterior of a building.

I agree.

[mtman]

Originally Posted by ET1 SS

sagging fiberglass batts, blow in lose fill, yeah yeah.

The poster was talking about drafts!

If air is blowing through the walls, from the outside into the interior of the house.

You can put all of the blown-in junk you want to into those walls, the wind will still blow through the walls. They will still have a drafty house.

Even filling the voids with Styrofoam, will seal the void spaces, but if any studs have rotted, then the wind will blow through them.

If not the studs will thermal-conduct cold right into the house.

Vapour barrier.

Around here for stick houses, they wrap tyvek around the entire outside of a house. heat shrink it tight and then begin hanging siding.

i have a good buddy that lives in maine i visit from time to time who you kidding in maine tyvek is sidding

[ET1 SS]

Tell me about it.

Four posts to hold up the roof, wrapp it with tyvek, and spray uruethane foam inside 6 inches thick; your be snug as a bug. Even with gale winds, four foot of snow and frost heaves.

[mtman]

Originally Posted by ET1 SS

Tell me about it.

Four posts to hold up the roof, wrapp it with tyvek, and spray uruethane foam inside 6 inches thick; your be snug as a bug. Even with gale winds, four foot of snow and frost heaves.

i have to say you made me laugh on that one

[ET1 SS]

I have seen some really sad looking structures.

Leaning, roof peak-ridge sagging, missing siding, ...

And come the 'almost-winter' season they wrap it with tyvek, and call it good.

We have one five miles from here, like that. They had a for sale sign up all summer. Somebody bought it just in time, to wrap it up for winter.

I thought about taking a picture, just to debate whether those loose flapping side boards had ever seen paint, and why anyone would buy it. But then it was sold and the sign came down.